Minutus

Decline of homeopathy from most knowledgeable person

From Julian Winston, famous homeopathy historian (who died 9+ years
ago and miss im so!)

The decline in homeopathy in the USA was precipitated by many
factors. The major factor that I see was the complete failure on the
part of the homeopathic schools to teach *homeopathy*. They were,
almost to a school, teaching pure therapeutics (use this for that)
and not teaching any principles or structure. They were also teaching
allopathic therapeutics at the same time.

When those who graduated tried using the little they were taught
they, more often than not, met with failure, and fell back onto
allopathic therapeutics.

Yes... it was "mongrel" but in the sense that they had no sufficient
background and certainly mixed their therapeutics.

The only schools in the 1890s who were teaching *the method* were
Dunham and Hering in Chicago. BY the time it all started to go under
in the 1920s, those few who were interested in learning the *method*
attended the 6 week Post Graduate instruction from the American
Foundation. Most of the teachers (at the beginning) were graduates of
either Dunham, Hering, or Kent's Postgraduate School.

I am presently working on a database of American Homeopaths. In 1925,
the AIH published a director of homeopathic practitioners in the USA.
There were 8,720 names listed. Of the list, only 527 of the folks
trained prior to 1880-- the time when it all started downhill.
Another directory was issued in 1941. There were 6,937 names in
there. of them, only 3,500 remained from the 1925 listing. What
happened to the other 5,200? Certainly a number of them died, but not all.

My assumption is that they were poorly trained in homeopathy. They
got out of school between 1900 and 1924. They began practice. And by
the time 1941 rolled around, there were a bunch who stopped the
practice of homeopathy because they had no success with it, or found
no support network to help them.

Allen Sutherland graduated from Hahnenmann Philadelphia in 1925. He
had no success in his practice. At one point he met HA Roberts who
took him under wing and got him to go to the Postgrad course of the
AFH. If it wasn't for THAT meeting, Sutherland would have drifted
into allopathy.

George Nitsche graduated Hahnemann in 1938. He loved homeopathy. He
had some instruction from Calvin Knerr. But he had to do his
residency, and he went to a hospital in Minnesota. There he found no
one to talk to about homeopathy and no support. He put away his kit
(which I now have) and became an allopath.

It is a typical story.

THAT is what shut homeopathy down in the USA-- not the fighting
between the "highs" and the "lows" but poor education.

The piece of homeopathy that survived was kept alive by those who
WERE doing it-- Roberts, Grimmer, Hayes, Pulford, Green, Neiswander
(the elder), Rabe-- and they kept their patients happy. But when THAT
group died, there was almost nothing left. The supportive patients,
finding no one nearby, drifted into allopathy, or bought themselves
homeopathic kits and tried their best.

JW

Well, I have a different take on it, and I am standing by my perspective. Given that I have been following the fortunes of homeopathy for so long, I see no reason why Julian Winston is any more of an expert than I am.

The day to day person to person transmission of enthusiasm for homeopathy is what should be examined. If homeopathy does not help a person, there is no way that that person is going to transmit any enthusiasm for it to someone else. Whether the real homeopathy is taught or a symptomatological homeopathy is taught in homeopathy schools won't make much difference if the patient is eating Twinkies and does not recover from diabetes after a treatment. The patient won't even know if his/her homeopath is doing constitutional homeopathy or not. And if you told the patient, he/she wouldn't give a rat's-rearend. All that they care about is whether it works or not.

And why did the schools stop teaching the correct homeopathy?

"there were a bunch who stopped the practice of homeopathy because they had no success with it" And why did they have no success with it. At least partly what I said. The tsunami of Twinkies hit homeopathy just as hard as it hit the rest of American society, and no one noticed. Homeopath tended to stop working in the face of a maintaining cause that no one paid any attention to.

And why did the happy patients not transmit their enthusiasm to others. I was told by an old Sufi guru lady to go to some guy named Fatheringham or something like that in a mall in south east San Francisco. It was so successful that I have been very enthusiastic about homeopathy for anyone who would listen.

Roger Bird
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 10:35:50 -0800
Subject: [Minutus] History of Homeopathy - Decline of homeopathy from most knowledgeable person

Decline of homeopathy from most knowledgeable person

From Julian Winston, famous homeopathy historian (who died 9+ years
ago and miss im so!)

The decline in homeopathy in the USA was precipitated by many
factors. The major factor that I see was the complete failure on the
part of the homeopathic schools to teach *homeopathy*. They were,
almost to a school, teaching pure therapeutics (use this for that)
and not teaching any principles or structure. They were also teaching
allopathic therapeutics at the same time.

When those who graduated tried using the little they were taught
they, more often than not, met with failure, and fell back onto
allopathic therapeutics.

Yes... it was "mongrel" but in the sense that they had no sufficient
background and certainly mixed their therapeutics.

The only schools in the 1890s who were teaching *the method* were
Dunham and Hering in Chicago. BY the time it all started to go under
in the 1920s, those few who were interested in learning the *method*
attended the 6 week Post Graduate instruction from the American
Foundation. Most of the teachers (at the beginning) were graduates of
either Dunham, Hering, or Kent's Postgraduate School.

I am presently working on a database of American Homeopaths. In 1925,
the AIH published a director of homeopathic practitioners in the USA.
There were 8,720 names listed. Of the list, only 527 of the folks
trained prior to 1880-- the time when it all started downhill.
Another directory was issued in 1941. There were 6,937 names in
there. of them, only 3,500 remained from the 1925 listing. What
happened to the other 5,200? Certainly a number of them died, but not all.

My assumption is that they were poorly trained in homeopathy. They
got out of school between 1900 and 1924. They began practice. And by
the time 1941 rolled around, there were a bunch who stopped the
practice of homeopathy because they had no success with it, or found
no support network to help them.

Allen Sutherland graduated from Hahnenmann Philadelphia in 1925. He
had no success in his practice. At one point he met HA Roberts who
took him under wing and got him to go to the Postgrad course of the
AFH. If it wasn't for THAT meeting, Sutherland would have drifted
into allopathy.

George Nitsche graduated Hahnemann in 1938. He loved homeopathy. He
had some instruction from Calvin Knerr. But he had to do his
residency, and he went to a hospital in Minnesota. There he found no
one to talk to about homeopathy and no support. He put away his kit
(which I now have) and became an allopath.

It is a typical story.

THAT is what shut homeopathy down in the USA-- not the fighting
between the "highs" and the "lows" but poor education.

The piece of homeopathy that survived was kept alive by those who
WERE doing it-- Roberts, Grimmer, Hayes, Pulford, Green, Neiswander
(the elder), Rabe-- and they kept their patients happy. But when THAT
group died, there was almost nothing left. The supportive patients,
finding no one nearby, drifted into allopathy, or bought themselves
homeopathic kits and tried their best.

JW

Gosh Roger, please don't take offence but unlike the person you have just dissed you come across as very new to homeopathy with a limited understanding of its precepts, history and foundational texts.

Fran.

Dear Roger,

I am sorry but you did miss the boat.
The decline of homeopathy is about suppression by Big Pharma via AMA and AVMA.
This prevents a proper number of people from choosing homeopathy as a career, for fear they will suffer the kinds of harassment that I and Fran have experienced first hand, for example.

When I last asked BIH (the biggest homeopathy school in the world as regards numbers), how many students of veterinary homeopathy they had (just students, not graduates yet mind), some years ago, the answer was 149.

SO let's assume that all of them graduated - and let's furtgher (unreasonably) assme they were all in USA - this is a max of three veterinary homeopaths per state in USA.

That has to be an overestimate. I do not know ANY other graduate vethom in WA state. SO I as lone WA state vethom am supposed to make sure all WA people that have pets or animals have heard of homeopathy? That is not going to be possible:-)

SO basically there are no vethoms becasue they are scared of selecting a career in which they are stuck in jail for using homeopahty.
Even in CA where the law says every owner of an animal has a legal right to ask for homeopathy without fear oir prosecution - anyone actually teaching a cat owner how to use itk, IS prosecuted. The law gives citizens the right to ask for homeopathy , but does not allow anyone to provide it!

Two or three vethoms per state - even if there were that many - is worse than a joke.
Going door to door with that level of representation - is it any wonder that a lot os peopel are unfamiliar with it.

That said, I get a LOT of emails from all over the world asking me about homeopathy, and most of all from USA.
SO there is a section of the pblic who knows about and reveres homeopathy - and the rest have not yet heard of it since it was consifered snake oil 120 years back.
The suppressio by AVMA/AMA has been too thorough for the new generation of folks to know about homeopahty from any experiecne other than handed down knonwledge. This is not due to any ineffectiveness but due totally to near complete suppression of this profession.
I do not agree with any of this, not that I understand what you are on about:-)
They did and it resulted in court charges for the homeopahts.
Take my example in 2003. I helped an owner with a cat's urinary issues declared incurable by a vet in CT who is well known. Owner took healthy cat back to the vet to show offd, vet oohed and ahhed and asked what wonderful homeopath was involved. Next say I heard from WA state that he'd filed chages against me.
I won my case that time and vet was told. The next day he published in Hartford Courant newspaper that a vethom in WA state (rememebr I am the only one) had to be disciplined by the WA state for my interstate illegal practice of medicine, but that sadly "it was too late for the cat", and that nobody shoud go near a vethom.
The newspaper editors would neither retract nor publish what I or my client said. So how does THIS (or any other) good homeopathy result help? It attacks the homeopath the client and mispublicizes homepathy as terrible - to all the readers of the paper with NO retraction or argument published to counter it. And th ey claim there is freedom of speech in USA, Ha bloody Ha!

That reduction in popularity of homeopathy is not to do with bad homeopaty - only to do with lies that homepathy is bad. An incurable cat got back to health - that was the REAL result.

(This is all in the record - you can look it up.)
Well IF you get it direct you will get the truth - but if you read the Hartford Courant, the vet lies, AVMA lies, AMA lies, the Pharma lies, the food comany lies (the ones who make junkfood as homeopaths stop their sales) and the state lies and the courtcase lies - you will not get it right:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Addressing diet and other maintaining causes *is* part of what homeopaths are trained to address, and it's strongly stressed in the Organon.

Another very interesting perspective on homeopathy's history is Harris Coulter's "Divided Legacy." It's a really interesting and readable book! And gives a rather fascinating history. For e.g., did you know that the AMA (American Medical Association) was formed specifically and precisely -- as lined out in their original documents of formation -- in order to protect the mainstream docs of the day, from "homeopaths and herbalists"?

Because, the good people, the patients, had noted that those "homeopaths and herbalists" were having more success. And also that fewer of their patients were dying -- FAR fewer. (The mainstream medicine of that day was arguably less brutal that today's, at least the bulk of it. But still…)

Roger, I really recommend that you give it a read. I think you won't be sorry!

Shannon
________________________________

That is the point I have made many times: the AMA was only a trade organization on the same level as a union. It set standards
of training to eliminate homeopaths and other eclectic healers from acceptance. It set standards of practice that eliminated the
use of homeopathy and threatened members if they even discussed homeopathy as an option.

It was a heavy handed, draconian assault on anything holistic and nothing has changed since except for the size, money and power
that the AMA has today.

It was always funded by the chemical industry.

t
________________________________

Dear Fran,

I read it years ago. That is where I learned to hate the AMA. (:->)

Roger
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:44:54 -0600
Subject: Re: [Minutus] History of Homeopathy - Decline of homeopathy from most knowledgeable person

Addressing diet and other maintaining causes *is* part of what homeopaths are trained to address, and it's strongly stressed in the Organon.
Another very interesting perspective on homeopathy's history is Harris Coulter's "Divided Legacy."

How did you, dear reader, first hear about homeopathy? How did you first become enthusiastic about seeing a homeopath? Did you hear it from the AMA telling you that homeopathy is bunk? Not likely.

Pretty much the whole of society and all of government is constantly suppressing recreational drug usage, like heroin, crack, meth, etc. Yet it just won't go down or stay down. It is even obvious to the most casual observer that the use of those drugs are very harmful. Yet people still do the first hit. All of the suppression in the world is nothing compared with a friend being enthusiastic about something.

I got my first "hit" of homeopathy from a licensed MD and my subsequent "hits" from another one who happened to live much closer. I went to them both because of enthusiasm from a "user". I am 110% aware of the evil behavior of the AMA et. al. I am saying that there is more to it than that.

Look at the suppression of raw milk in the USA, New Zealand, and several other countries. That suppression just doesn't work, because people experience benefit from raw milk. My son's hayfever disappeared within hours of his first "hit" of raw goat milk. What would have happened if it took weeks or months for the raw milk to make a difference, or if there was some sort of other issue that maintained his hayfever. I would have become discouraged from continuing to pay such a high price for milk and I would have stopped doing it. I might have adopted the attitude that raw milk seems like a good idea but why spend all of that money on a good idea. But as it is, my boy and I are believers in raw milk, because we got results that we could experience.

Roger Bird
________________________________

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 05:13:20 -0800
Subject: Re: [Minutus] History of Homeopathy - Decline of homeopathy from most knowledgeable person
Dear Roger,

I am sorry but you did miss the boat.
The decline of homeopathy is about suppression by Big Pharma via AMA and AVMA.
This prevents a proper number of people from choosing homeopathy as a career, for fear they will suffer the kinds of harassment that I and Fran have experienced first hand, for example.

When I last asked BIH (the biggest homeopathy school in the world as regards numbers), how many students of veterinary homeopathy they had (just students, not graduates yet mind), some years ago, the answer was 149.

SO let's assume that all of them graduated - and let's furtgher (unreasonably) assme they were all in USA - this is a max of three veterinary homeopaths per state in USA.

That has to be an overestimate. I do not know ANY other graduate vethom in WA state. SO I as lone WA state vethom am supposed to make sure all WA people that have pets or animals have heard of homeopathy? That is not going to be possible:-)

SO basically there are no vethoms becasue they are scared of selecting a career in which they are stuck in jail for using homeopahty.
Even in CA where the law says every owner of an animal has a legal right to ask for homeopathy without fear oir prosecution - anyone actually teaching a cat owner how to use itk, IS prosecuted. The law gives citizens the right to ask for homeopathy , but does not allow anyone to provide it!

Two or three vethoms per state - even if there were that many - is worse than a joke.
Going door to door with that level of representation - is it any wonder that a lot os peopel are unfamiliar with it.

That said, I get a LOT of emails from all over the world asking me about homeopathy, and most of all from USA.
SO there is a section of the pblic who knows about and reveres homeopathy - and the rest have not yet heard of it since it was consifered snake oil 120 years back.
The suppressio by AVMA/AMA has been too thorough for the new generation of folks to know about homeopahty from any experiecne other than handed down knonwledge. This is not due to any ineffectiveness but due totally to near complete suppression of this profession.
I do not agree with any of this, not that I understand what you are on about:-)
They did and it resulted in court charges for the homeopahts.
Take my example in 2003. I helped an owner with a cat's urinary issues declared incurable by a vet in CT who is well known. Owner took healthy cat back to the vet to show offd, vet oohed and ahhed and asked what wonderful homeopath was involved. Next say I heard from WA state that he'd filed chages against me.
I won my case that time and vet was told. The next day he published in Hartford Courant newspaper that a vethom in WA state (rememebr I am the only one) had to be disciplined by the WA state for my interstate illegal practice of medicine, but that sadly "it was too late for the cat", and that nobody shoud go near a vethom.
The newspaper editors would neither retract nor publish what I or my client said. So how does THIS (or any other) good homeopathy result help? It attacks the homeopath the client and mispublicizes homepathy as terrible - to all the readers of the paper with NO retraction or argument published to counter it. And th ey claim there is freedom of speech in USA, Ha bloody Ha!

That reduction in popularity of homeopathy is not to do with bad homeopaty - only to do with lies that homepathy is bad. An incurable cat got back to health - that was the REAL result.

(This is all in the record - you can look it up.)
Well IF you get it direct you will get the truth - but if you read the Hartford Courant, the vet lies, AVMA lies, AMA lies, the Pharma lies, the food comany lies (the ones who make junkfood as homeopaths stop their sales) and the state lies and the courtcase lies - you will not get it right:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Since when is raw milk suppressed in New Zealand?????????? a few minutes drive from where I live we have an organic dairy farmer who installed an automatic distributor for his raw milk, like an ATM....

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz
________________________________

I think it is Shannon you mean to respond to?

Fran.
________________________________