Minutus

> On Behalf Of kelloggs263@aol.com

Lethargy and hyperthyroidism do not make sense together, nor the next statement from the vet:

Can you send me the blood work so I can get an idea what is happenin inside th cat?
(I do not diagnose, just look at what is going on)
send to furryboots@catlover.com
Wow, that is very serious in a cat, and will mess up the liver and metabolism. The cause needs to be addressed.
Meantime
Suggest frequent feediungs of very high protein assist-fed by child's medicine dropper if needed, so the cat eats every 3 hours.
Like all meat baby food with equal parts water.
Also get some Nori - the kind used for sushi, and either feed a quarter sheet as it comes (some cats love it) or crush and put in food.
ALso suggest (same versions as for people) supplements as foll:
Pantothenic acid 50mg
Vit B6 3 mg
Vit C 250mg or mote
These three replensh exhausted adrenal glands.
Also fish oil capsules, the ordinary cheap kind at the grocery store made from fish oil NOT flax. Prick the capsule and work up to one cap a day.

What does he do to suggest this?

What thyroid medicine?
More likely the exhausted adrenals cause the thyroid heractivity but I am guessing with no data to go on (yet) other than the mismatch lethargy and hyperthyroid. HypOthyroid is usual with lethargy
See above.

The above will do no harm in any cat, but do send the blood work
Namaste,
Irene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Hi Irene, Thanks for offering to look at his blood work and for your advice. Do you have a fax #? If not, I'll pick the blood work results up from the vet and copy and email them to you. What the vet said is that his T4 level was very high for his age. The level is 4.1, and he said for an older cat 2.3 is the highest in the normal range. He said his white blood cells are elevated, mostly mature nutrifills, which he said indicates a chronic inflammatory condition. He also said his albumen is low and he's concerned that he's losing protein. His kidney looked normal, but I read online on several vet sites that hyperthryroidism can make the kidneys appear to be functioning normally, but once the hyperthryoidism is dealt with, you get a more accurate reading on the kidneys and they're usually worse than they previously looked.
As far as food goes, I'm switching to raw food tomorrow when my meat from a local organic farm comes in. I know people are divided on this, but I've done a lot of research and feel it's the best diet for them, esp. if you have a good source for meat. I met someone online yesterday who said her 13-year-old cat had hyperthryoidism and had lost a lot of weight too, and all she did was switch to raw and he got better almost immediately.
I'm going to the health food store today, and I was hoping to pick up some herbs. Can you buy dried herbs and put them on their food and get the same results as herbs bought in capsules? I hope so, because it would cost a lot less....
I just called the vet and they're going to email the blood work to me, so I'll forward it to you....Thanks Irene...Kelly

Oh, and I forgot Irene, his appetite increased if anything since he lost the weight 10 months ago, it's just in the last week that it's decreased, but it might be picking up a little again. And, he's definitely not so lethargic that he can't eat, he still goes outside when it's warm, he's just not as active as he used to be. My vet said he probably has apathetic hyperthryoidism, which is less common, but it's when the hyperthryoidism doesn't cause the usual overactivity, but lethargy instead....

Thanks I received the email and studied the blood work, which tells a lot.
These are just my opinions - not medical advice:
and within the "normal range" which goes up to 4.5
However there is no test for TSH or T3 or reverse T3 which would be needed to really know what is happening.
T4 is not an active hormone. T3 is the active form, adn tehre can be many reasons for a relatively high T4.
In homeopathy we say "One must remove the maintaining cause of disease"
Here there is no attempt to find out what that is.

There are some much more important lab findings in the blood work in my opinioin.
Electrolytes, especially potassium and chloride are too low. Potassium shoud be 4.5.
If it was my cat I would be supplementing potassium chloride. You can get "No Salt" at grocery stores which is potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride. A pinch on food can help.
Low potassium makes an individual feel faint.

More relevant to me also is the low albumin showing protein starvation and this low level is bad enough to jupset the osmotic balance in the body - also explaining the low potassium.
The frequent high animal protein feeding is essential IMO, to try to help this.

What is causing the protein starvation is unclear but there is very strong evidence that it may be a very serious cause, based on very high neutrophils and very low lymphocytes and very low albumin and red cell anemia combined.
The globulin level is normal, but that is the only criterion not there in the set normally found for Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP) - a muscle destroying and lethargy causing syndrome of immune system malfunction in cats.
Other signs of FIp type activity are the abnormal acanthocytosis and the statement that the neutrophils are old and toxic. That happens to be the mechanism of FIP.
It is a situation where neutrophils are foced to accumulate and get old, and release toxins that do immense harm, including muscle destruction. I find that situation - toxic neutrophil accumulations, so much more compelling as a maintaining cause here than anything else.
Other vets would argue that, which is why the normal range goes up to 4.5. It's the cause that counts., I suspect this is just aside efect of a much more serious issue.
Yes but they are also old (accumulating due to not being removed when mature, normally at age 12 hours) and toxic due to that age, and acanthocytic - meaning they break and do harm to the body, destroying protein and causing low albumin. So these neutrophils are the majpor issue.
Yes and to me the reason is those neutrophils.
yes, also the liver.
But neither can fix the neutrophil problem. Neutrophils need to be taken out of the body by large white cells calle macrophages - and they are clearly not doing their work.

Be careful what you read on line! call those "fictio sites".
Rather read the National Library of Medicine to see the research, rather than someone's opinion on a website.
Cook it first though.
The reason so-called raw food diets are better than junk food diets, is that they contain real meat. But the rawness is a bad idea. There are suface bacteriaql toxins within 20 minutes of slaughter of hte meat. SO if it was killed more than 20 mins ago, then you need to cook itk at least o the surface to remove toxins. The toxins in this cat are sky jhigh form teh neutrophils. and the cat ir red, meaning genetically unable to handle toxins well.
SO the last thing it needs is more toxins on raw meat or toxins of any kind..

Remember too that herbs are toic to cats.
Instead I'd use the supplements I suggested that are able to detoxify.
Taurine of 1000mg or more can also help.
People yes. Research facts no.
Good meat is the best diet, but not raw.
Maybe her cat had hypoerthyroidism and not toxic neutrophils.
One cannot say the cause and answer for one cat means it will work for a cat with a different cause of whatever is superficially shown.
NO NO please no.
Herbs are very toxic to cats.
SO are fruit and vegetables.
Cats are obligate carnivores and they LACK the liver enzymes to digest plants. The complex molecules that work as antioxidants for humans, are toxins cats can not break down ointo ebneficial componenets.
Casts are NOT small humans, their design is completely different.

The bottom line here is not very good I'm afraid.
Toxic neutrophil damage from whatever cause is very very hard to beat. There is no drug or medicine that can make those toxic neuts go away or be taken out of the body. Vets often nake the mistake of usin ghte opposite drug and give "steroids for inflammation" but that actually kills as the steroids INCREASE the neutrophils and destroy the thymus needed for recovery. It's an area of research I work hard on as I do FIP research, and this toxic neutrophil issue is the mechanism used in FIP.

But so far, the only things I know of to help are:
* A homeopathic remedy separate from the illness, not against the illness, but to build general health of the cat. The point of this is to rebuild thymus health (not thyroid but thymus immune system function) so that the cat's immune system will recover its function of using macrophages to take out the bad neutrophils. This requires a full consult and is not available free of charge anywhere I know of. (A Care Card to my knowledge only works for licenced vets)
* Antioxidants safe for cats and adrenal support supplements as that is likely behind the thyroid stress (already suggested list)
* Moducare to help thymus function temporarily
* FIP 30C remedy to build resistance to FIP
* Pet-tnic and Vit E for red cell anemia - severe per the blood results, and will make the cat feel faint and weak.

I am familiar with therm inventer in about 1930 of "apathetic hyperthyroidism". I consider it a cop-out by the medical professioj who sees hyperthyroid values, does not knwo why, and also sees apathy.
My opinion is that there is no hyperthyroidism, but there i s a serious underlying cause that should be looked for and handled, and which has the side effect of strressing the adrenal g lands and in turn triggering thyroid activity to try to cope with things that make the individual weak - the real causes of the "apathy" - namely here, anemia,. low electrolytes, and loss of body protein - all caused by toxic neutrophils - the REAL issue I see.

[There's no pancreatitis by the way. There is not even raised amylase or lipase. IN cats with pancreatitis you see double the high level of amylase and very high lipase. Both are normal. It's the toxic neutrophiuls here that I see as the enemy.]

I'll end by saying these are my free speech OPINIONS. They are not intended to be medical advice or prognosis or prescription or diagnosis.

I do hope that the supplements will help. Maybe someone else can offer to work on the homeopathy for healing the thymus, I am sorry I can not do that at present. But I hope this helps somehow.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Worms??
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Irene de Villiers
Sent: 20 March 2014 22:27
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Cat diagnosed hyperthyroid by vet....was e: [Minutus] Can I join this group?
Thanks I received the email and studied the blood work, which tells a lot.
These are just my opinions - not medical advice:
and within the "normal range" which goes up to 4.5
However there is no test for TSH or T3 or reverse T3 which would be needed to really know what is happening.
T4 is not an active hormone. T3 is the active form, adn tehre can be many reasons for a relatively high T4.
In homeopathy we say "One must remove the maintaining cause of disease"
Here there is no attempt to find out what that is.

There are some much more important lab findings in the blood work in my opinioin.
Electrolytes, especially potassium and chloride are too low. Potassium shoud be 4.5.
If it was my cat I would be supplementing potassium chloride. You can get "No Salt" at grocery stores which is potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride. A pinch on food can help.
Low potassium makes an individual feel faint.

More relevant to me also is the low albumin showing protein starvation and this low level is bad enough to jupset the osmotic balance in the body - also explaining the low potassium.
The frequent high animal protein feeding is essential IMO, to try to help this.

What is causing the protein starvation is unclear but there is very strong evidence that it may be a very serious cause, based on very high neutrophils and very low lymphocytes and very low albumin and red cell anemia combined.
The globulin level is normal, but that is the only criterion not there in the set normally found for Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP) - a muscle destroying and lethargy causing syndrome of immune system malfunction in cats.
Other signs of FIp type activity are the abnormal acanthocytosis and the statement that the neutrophils are old and toxic. That happens to be the mechanism of FIP.
It is a situation where neutrophils are foced to accumulate and get old, and release toxins that do immense harm, including muscle destruction. I find that situation - toxic neutrophil accumulations, so much more compelling as a maintaining cause here than anything else.
Other vets would argue that, which is why the normal range goes up to 4.5. It's the cause that counts., I suspect this is just aside efect of a much more serious issue.
Yes but they are also old (accumulating due to not being removed when mature, normally at age 12 hours) and toxic due to that age, and acanthocytic - meaning they break and do harm to the body, destroying protein and causing low albumin. So these neutrophils are the majpor issue.
Yes and to me the reason is those neutrophils.
yes, also the liver.
But neither can fix the neutrophil problem. Neutrophils need to be taken out of the body by large white cells calle macrophages - and they are clearly not doing their work.
Be careful what you read on line! call those "fictio sites".
Rather read the National Library of Medicine to see the research, rather than someone's opinion on a website.
Cook it first though.
The reason so-called raw food diets are better than junk food diets, is that they contain real meat. But the rawness is a bad idea. There are suface bacteriaql toxins within 20 minutes of slaughter of hte meat. SO if it was killed more than 20 mins ago, then you need to cook itk at least o the surface to remove toxins. The toxins in this cat are sky jhigh form teh neutrophils. and the cat ir red, meaning genetically unable to handle toxins well.
SO the last thing it needs is more toxins on raw meat or toxins of any kind..

Remember too that herbs are toic to cats.
Instead I'd use the supplements I suggested that are able to detoxify.
Taurine of 1000mg or more can also help.
People yes. Research facts no.
Good meat is the best diet, but not raw.
Maybe her cat had hypoerthyroidism and not toxic neutrophils.
One cannot say the cause and answer for one cat means it will work for a cat with a different cause of whatever is superficially shown.
NO NO please no.
Herbs are very toxic to cats.
SO are fruit and vegetables.
Cats are obligate carnivores and they LACK the liver enzymes to digest plants. The complex molecules that work as antioxidants for humans, are toxins cats can not break down ointo ebneficial componenets.
Casts are NOT small humans, their design is completely different.

The bottom line here is not very good I'm afraid.
Toxic neutrophil damage from whatever cause is very very hard to beat. There is no drug or medicine that can make those toxic neuts go away or be taken out of the body. Vets often nake the mistake of usin ghte opposite drug and give "steroids for inflammation" but that actually kills as the steroids INCREASE the neutrophils and destroy the thymus needed for recovery. It's an area of research I work hard on as I do FIP research, and this toxic neutrophil issue is the mechanism used in FIP.

But so far, the only things I know of to help are:
* A homeopathic remedy separate from the illness, not against the illness, but to build general health of the cat. The point of this is to rebuild thymus health (not thyroid but thymus immune system function) so that the cat's immune system will recover its function of using macrophages to take out the bad neutrophils. This requires a full consult and is not available free of charge anywhere I know of. (A Care Card to my knowledge only works for licenced vets)
* Antioxidants safe for cats and adrenal support supplements as that is likely behind the thyroid stress (already suggested list)
* Moducare to help thymus function temporarily
* FIP 30C remedy to build resistance to FIP
* Pet-tnic and Vit E for red cell anemia - severe per the blood results, and will make the cat feel faint and weak.

I am familiar with therm inventer in about 1930 of "apathetic hyperthyroidism". I consider it a cop-out by the medical professioj who sees hyperthyroid values, does not knwo why, and also sees apathy.
My opinion is that there is no hyperthyroidism, but there i s a serious underlying cause that should be looked for and handled, and which has the side effect of strressing the adrenal g lands and in turn triggering thyroid activity to try to cope with things that make the individual weak - the real causes of the "apathy" - namely here, anemia,. low electrolytes, and loss of body protein - all caused by toxic neutrophils - the REAL issue I see.

[There's no pancreatitis by the way. There is not even raised amylase or lipase. IN cats with pancreatitis you see double the high level of amylase and very high lipase. Both are normal. It's the toxic neutrophiuls here that I see as the enemy.]

I'll end by saying these are my free speech OPINIONS. They are not intended to be medical advice or prognosis or prescription or diagnosis.

I do hope that the supplements will help. Maybe someone else can offer to work on the homeopathy for healing the thymus, I am sorry I can not do that at present. But I hope this helps somehow.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Worms, or parasites like toxoplasmosis, would have raised eosinophils in response to the foreign protein from them and the blood tests do not show that. Nor do worms or parasites cause toxic neutrophils or acanthocytosis.
My top guess would be an immune compromise issue.

Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."