Minutus

This topic is of great interest to me. Is it possible that you can come to a "yes or no" conclustion that describes this situation? For a layperson observing his/her own reactions to a remedy, can you offer a glimpse into what a patient or caregiver would look for in deciding if a remedy is proving?

If you go though the process of determining that it was, what can you do about it other than stop taking the remedy?
Does anyone have the experience of having actually proven a remedy? What happened and how did you recognize it in yourself or a patient?
I don't think it was a proving, but I took 12 bioplasma salts a day with quarts of water long after the homeoipath's prescription was over. I almost always find myself thinking that if a little is good then a LOT is better. Not!!! I created a very bad situation that wasn't there before I took the tissue salts. I also learned my lesson that tissue salts are powerful remedies.

Thanks for a good discussion on PROVINGS if anyone is interested in continuting this.

Vicki

I proved Lachesis....almost by accident, many years ago when I was testing remedies....got all the throat symptoms of it, not a nice thing.

Recognising a proving was easy: the appearance of symptoms belonging to the remedy but not to the patient, i.e not an aggravation of existing symptoms, but the appearance of new and unexpected ones.

Teaches you to respect the remedies.....

Joe.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

Dosage is perhaps the most crucial topic not only in homoeoepathy but in all medicine, i.e. posology, and I for one am thankful somebody is asking about it plain and simple.
Colin Lessel, perhaps the only homeopath to publish books on the physics of homeopathy, writes, "Unfortunately, the whole matter of homoeopathic posology would appear to be in a state of chaotic disorder."
Posology, or dosimetrics, is the methodology of dosage, and although in some ways its light years beyond allopathy, like all metrology, it's a nightmare. I've yet to find much of anything doctrinal on it. Julie Bernard published a study which simply confirms what's already been said. There is no methodology to it.
Kent said you can kill someone using too high, too often, suppurate tumors (see his lecture on Hepar), or graft symptoms on for life (Thuja).
Mueller says some potencies will cause suppuration and some will absorb. His phone seminar on the Q potencies was spent largely on history, after which I barely managed to squeeze in a question about succussion before he hung up.
The Banerji's, third and fourth generation homeopaths, say they have treated a million people, prescribe as low as 3X in some remedies and 200C in others in daily doses. None of their prescriptions use Q/LMs even though they report that 1/4 of their breast cancer cases aggravate and die (!).
The main reason Hahnemann created the LM or Q potencies was to replace the 30c potency so as to avoid aggravations in chronic cases where there is dosing over long periods of time. But the Qs were missed by the golden age of homeopathy as the 6th edition Organon was published 1921.
Clarke, the last of the masters, mentions the 6th edition and presumably would be aware of the Qs. But Clarke, who is still recommended as the primary authority on homoeopathy by the FDA (!) says nothing about the Qs in his clinical repertory, relying soley on decimals as low as 1X and centessimals only as high as 200 for hourly doses.
The general rule is dose until there is a change for better or worse, then stop. The action of most remedies continues theoretically for 30 to 45 days. Stan Snow, who is the only homeopath I know who has replicated Benveniste's EM analysis, says the trajectory of decimals is wider and lower, whereas the higher centessimals are spikier, narrower and taller.
In a message dated 7/22/2014 9:40:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, minutus@yahoogroups.com writes:

What are the throat symptoms of Lachesis?
I see. That's scary.
Yes. Does that happen to people who are given the wrong remedy? How do they know? Are some remedies more prone to proving? What about with FSeries? Does it work the same way?
Thanks!
Vicki

I disagree.
With the Fibinacci potencies and some common sense there is indeed a methodology.
Essentially the chronic dosing principles I use, are:

* Start low on the F scale, like 3C (or 5C for more toxic original substance), and increase to the next F potency only after the work of the current potency is done (ie no more improvement seen with say one or two doses in a row);
* With each potency, dose once and observe for response. Do not re-dose till the response wears off. That first dose will last a specific time. Dose that potency a little before the next dose is due to wear off based on the duration of first dose.
* Begin with a small dose such as a small sip (adjusted for size of individual) and adjust if needed, according to individual need, either with dilution glasses or with increased dose.
* In animal work if the owner must be away all day, you can also adjust dose size and dose frequency somewhat to accommodate times owner is there to dose. OR you can leave the dose on a saucer for self dosing.
(Animals detect the dose and know if they need it, with very few exceptions.)
* If a particular F potency seems to do nothing, dose it a few times, maybe three, and go to the next one.
* Usually all sign of illness is gone after 233C, and it pays to use all till 233C, and if symptoms still remain (unusual if they do) then continue to 377C.

Notes:
* I find that 377C is sometimes needed in cancers and other serious functional disruptions, and in old individuals with very damaged immune systems and longterm chronic conditions.
* If an aggravation is going to happen, it is usually with higher potencies like 55C or more and it happens rarely, but can be hours after the dose, eg four hours later.
* If an aggravation happens it is easily moderated by Bach Rescue Remedy, one or more doses at 5 min intervals. Then you need to dose less often of course.

The above approach is easy to do and consistently gives good results.
It is individualized as all homeopathy must be, but there are principles that are easy to follow.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

You can find the potential proving symptoms of any remedy in the repertory.
That is how we select a match to symptoms.
Lachesis has over ten thousand possible symptoms; different people may prove different ones - always it is symptoms that the individual does not have.
If someone had those symptoms, then Lachesis would help them.
If they did not have them, nor any other symptoms of the remedy, then the remedy could cause them (temporarily unless the unmatched remedy dose is repeatefd).
Yes.
They get new sympotoms they never had before.
It is not about remedies or potency.
It is about the individual using the remedy.
For example if you give me a dose of Sulphur (any potency) I will immediately have very nasty proving symptoms that take quite a while to go away, like 2 days minimum witih a very small dose.
Yet Sulphur is in common use by many homeopaths when they are not sure what remedy to start with in a new case
[ .......not that I agree with that approach:-) But is is a common one.]

It all has to do with selecting a significantly non-matched remedy for the individual - that will cause proving sympotoms in THAT individual.
it just means remedies are serious energy - and should be used with proper knowledge, especially in chronic issues - they are not toys.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

They are not nice, with extreme pain, too many pages to copy here....in my case I must have been in a "quasi-state" of Lachesis without any apparent symptoms, but open to its action...so not having anything to "cure" it just "showed itself"....not a very scientific explanation, I know.

Happened to a patient of mine years ago with Natrum Muriaticum, there were no objective symptoms but a clear underlying layer of NM....so she proved it, and later on used it for treatment when the time was right.

Have not seen that happen with the F series yet, but there is no reason it should not, same principle.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

Hello

I have personally "fooled around" with experimenting with different rx to see their effects. Each time I have tried something on my own I have found I have forgotten that I had taken the remedy every day (200c) and then later on after the emergence of new sx ...remembered that I was experimenting with xyz remedy and the I have proved the remedy. Best I can remember, I took Lac Maternum, Lycopodium, and Sacc Off. With the first I was so depressed, never been that depressed EVER in my life...could not figure it out ...till i remembered taking Lac Mat. With Lyco....all I remember is that my feet were constantly burning, and could never cool down, I thought it was from walking and TOO MUCH GOLFING, but it was the lyco. With the Sacc off, it was really strange....famished does not begin to describe what I felt. I could have eaten anything that was NOT nailed down. With each one I had forgotten that I was taking the remedy and then slowly, slowly, slowly you begin to feel the "wind" or direction of this or that impulse or experience and can never remember having experienced that. Each time I stopped the proving, stopped quickly and my "attitudes" returned to normal.

Best Wishes

Domenic
---In minutus@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
They are not nice, with extreme pain, too many pages to copy here....in my case I must have been in a "quasi-state" of Lachesis without any apparent symptoms, but open to its action...so not having anything to "cure" it just "showed itself"....not a very scientific explanation, I know.

Happened to a patient of mine years ago with Natrum Muriaticum, there were no objective symptoms but a clear underlying layer of NM....so she proved it, and later on used it for treatment when the time was right.

Have not seen that happen with the F series yet, but there is no reason it should not, same principle.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.

"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"

www.naturamedica.co.nz

Vicki,

it is not a common thing! But important to realize that it *can* happen. Reasons would be either:
- patient very sensitive, and/or
- very weak (e.g. age or chronic illness), and/or
- very susceptible to that particular remedy; and/or
- dose much too strong, and/or
- much too often repeated.

Maybe there are things that should be added to that list.
Domenic,

Interesting! I'm curious how many daily repetitions of 200c it took to bring the provings on, do you recall?

Shannon

Hi Shannon

Best guess is 7-14 days. but with me the new sx just come over you like a subtle wind. you end up thinking it is your normal state of being, or a change in attitude. For me it was never take new remedy and new immediate sx. it slowly evolved unto the fabric of your being that you think it is you ...but you are proving it. Sensations stopped immediately upon discontinuing it.

Best wishes Domenic
Domenic

Interesting! I'm curious how many daily repetitions of 200c it took to bring the provings on, do you recall?

Shannon