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irene - magnesium [was: vomiting baby]

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:53 pm
by Shannon Nelson
Hi Irene,

I have been puzzling over this. You wrote:

"Magnesium gluconate (OTC at pharmacies) is best for this - not the junk at HF stores that is chelated, or citric or whatever. … It is a fast absorbing one, a couple hours unlike all the rest which take 12 hrs."
Perhaps the problem I'm having here is just from different contexts. For many years I have used magnesium -- various kinds -- for sleep and for calcium absorption, in myself and several friends and family members. My experience has been that *when* magnesium is going to help sleep (assuming enough has been taken), it will help in a half hour or less, and the effect is *extremely* clear, nothing on the order of twelve hours, or even two.
I don't think it's placebo effect, because in some circumstances I have to cast around for the right amount, or even for whether calcium or magnesium is currently needed.
I realize this is completely unscientific and a tiny sample size, but it's been my repeated observation across several decades. Do you have any idea why this difference?
Thanks,
Shannon
So it can be used to help allay colic and constipation symptoms with an effect in a few hrs.

Re: irene - magnesium [was: vomiting baby]

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:10 am
by Irene de Villiers
Hi Shannon,
Magnesium is such a critical nutrient for hundreds of functions, and we tend o all g et too little due to depleted soils. (Generations of chemical fertilizers tend to cause leaching of many nutrients.) In my case I have had reason to study magnesium in ridiculous detail, as I was born with a magnesium wasting condition, and have had to find out how best to get magnesium into the deep tissues, faster than I kick it out at the kidneys.
Half the work was done already before i came along by a Doctor whose name I have lost, who has passed on, but who spent his life figuring out the characteristics and behavior and absorption rates of different versions of magnesium.
It won't matter nearly as much for those whose deep tissue magnesium stays where it belongs. SO my suggestion that HF forms are "junk" is not really valid in that any form of magnesium wll help when there is a shortage. Some forms act as antacids and if yo do not want to have enough acid to digest protein, well then those forms will achieve that (Mg oxide for example.)
It's true though that magnesium gluconate absorbs in an hour or two completely. It's such a useful feature that those with magnesium wasting can take a half dozen tablets of it, and in an hour all of a sudden, you can do things like exercising. But it lasts a short time. Best magnesium to get deepest into tissues and also shown in studies to help chronic illness most, is magnesium chloride. All the others are inefficient and need a lot more to get appropriate effect.

Where yo ad I "meet" in what we feel about taking magnesium - is not to do with absorption time which is as I stated. Some will start to absorb after 5 hrs but it will take 2 days for the full effect to be evident. SO essentially, one needs to take today, what one needs in two days time. It seems that magnesium is so critical that one can "feel" when there is too little for the future need, and a dose of magnesium is needed to plan ahead. I know for example if I am about to hit the hay for the night, whether I need more magnesium first and how much. I am nervous till I have swallowed it; then I can relax. I cannot explain this. It happens.
Now let me discuss the idea you state "magnesium - for calcium absorption".
That is a complete misunderstanding!
In fact if you accidentally take too much magnesium, the way to antidote it is to take calcium.
Magnesium has nothing to do with calcium absorption. The two minerals are excreted in a ratio of 2 Calcium to 1 magnesium - and if you lack magnesium, and have a lot of calcium, you will get increasingly depleted in magnesium, as you excrete some each time you get rid of excess calcium.

Somehow the FDA wants calcium in all the magnesium tablets. EVERY version of Magnesium chloride enteric coated tablet includes a lot of calcium (Mag-Delay and about 8 generic versions). For those of us needing a lot of magnesium and NOT wanting the huge calcium load with it, we are stuck. Taking magnesium chloride without calcium is only available without the enteric coating really needed for such high amounts. However the total magnesium needed that way (without calcium) is significantly less (approx a third less) because there is no calcium countering a lot of the magnesium.

So taking magnesium and calcium together ensures you get LESS magnesium, as the calcium cancels it out and wastes magnesium, as best I can tell, by about a third of the magnesium. (I am currently trying to figure it out exactly, as I cannot use the enteric coated ones any more - I'm allergic to the acacia they decided to add in all of the brands.)
I do not think it unscientific. Magnesium is such a critical mineral it makes perfect sense to me, that we can detect whether we need it and how much - just as we have a thirst reflex, which tells us we need water and how much. Why not the same for magnesium - especially as we need to take it a couple days ahead!
Biofeedback:-)
There may be more to it internally. It may be that once the body knows it is going to get more magnesium it may take some out of the tissue into the blood for current use. But that is pure speculation on my part. I can certainly confirm the slow absorption times for magnesium (other than gluconate) as I have had the frustration of wanting it to get working for me when it can not do so. When I have enough, I can use muscles for things like loading groceries in/out of the car, or getting into the shower. Only the gluconate version can get me over those humps while waiting for other forms to "get in there" as background magnesium.

Namaste,
Irene

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--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."