Minutus

In your opinion:-)
And sometimes in the opinion of others - but not the opinions of those writig the scientific papers.

In fact the one that you quote directly as opposed to by interpretation of another, is this one, and it complies with the tens of thousands of research articles in the national Library o medicine - which are not calling a spade a fork either:
(Ester-C is sodium ascorbate)
This figures as what you use intravenously is not very relevant except for some added sodium, since ALL intravenous preparations have dissociated ions and have sodium ions.
But what is used orally, matters and as I said earlier, the *acidic* nature (with more positive eleectrones for REOX reactions) is more useful - as found in ascorbic acid but not in sodium ascorbate:
Sodium is a mineral, he is referring to sodium ascorbate.
which is what makes it *better* than sodium ascorbate. The postiive ions matter.
I had forgotten the weight issue, which also would indeed make ascorbic acid (with two H+ atoms, atomic weight of 1 each) much lighter than sodium ascorbate (with one Na+ atom of atomic weight 23).
namely sodium ascorbate
as compared with ascorbic acid
which is the dissociated aspect that is chemically relevant in either cae.
Cathcart is correct and what he says is confirmed in multiple other studies.
There were many assumptions made in the past, which were based on les information than is now available.
For example, this one about sodium, ascribed to Klenner more than forty years ago:

That is 2220 mg of sodium in addition to his normal sodium intake from food.
This anecdotal comment is irrelevant.
There are many people who can not safely ingest 2220 extra mg of sodium per day.
Urine pH is irrelevant and not connected to sodium intake.

................
Elsewhere in your email you assume I am a vet and that animals have no need of additiona ascorbic acid and that I would not be using it.
These assumptions are just as incorrect as the others you made.
I am not a vet. I trained in both human and animal homeopathy (and attended medical school and graduate scool in the medical sciences, my bachelor's degree was in animal sciences.)
I work as a veterinary homeopath - am not licensed as a vet or doctor.
Sick animals need extra Vitamin C just as much as sick people do.
I use it DAILY in my work with animals, in the MORE effective form, which is ascorbic acid, for the reasons as quoted in your email by Dr Cathcart, and for other reasons including results.

Unlike Klenner, my client's animals are very sick, and cannot tolerate a lot of extra sodium as Klenner could.
I am indebted to your post to help me understand even more why ascorbic acid provides such superior results to sodium ascorbate - the relative *weights* of the two options, due to the positive ions involved.

Thanks for that.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

At 05:59 PM 1/23/2013, you wrote:
No, Irene, Ester-C is Calcium
ascorbate http://www.qwhatis.com/what-is-ester-c/
http://vitamincfoundation.org/esterc.htm

You really don't know what you are talking about here Irene
You know a lot of things, but not about Sodium
Ascorbate - please don't keep confusing people

Sodium Ascorbate is the best form for IV and higher doses by mouth

Sheri
No, it is not - if you are interested in learning
about this, read what I have sent.
If you are not interested in learning this, please just stop confusing people

I stand corrected about animals needing extra
vitamin C, even though they produce. I will look into that.

Yes, I see - a different mineral ascorbate than sodium ascorbate.
But still the same factors apply as in my email quoting yours with a good opinion by Cathcart - who correctly refers to ALL the sodium and calcium type ascorbates as "mineral ascorbates", and sees them as inferior to ascorbic *acid* - no minerals and less atomic weight - more reactivity options to benefit the body.

I apologize to the manufacturers of Ester-C for thinking they used sodium and not calcium in their mineral ascorbate. Calcium is even heavier. It will lack the sodium but adds almost twice the weight that sodium adds (and adds calcium).
...the weight especially, a distinct disadvantage.

Best *results* in sick individuals, are obtained with ascorbic acid.
All the others are okay for healthy people as a Vit C supplement.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Irene you do NOT know what you are talking about here. It is very very basic to know that Ester-C is calcium ascorbate and you did not even know that.

Too bad you don't choose to read with an open mind so you can learn something here.

I am being pointed and firm here because this is vital info in this day and age and you are misleading others.......I know you know a lot of things - but this isn't one of them.

http://www.orthomed.com/civprep.htm Preparation of Sodium Ascorbate for IV and IM Use
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuRTLoQlSks Dr. Robert Cathcart, III, MD explains how to prepare sodium ascorbate (non acidic vitamin C) powder
http://www.pr.com/press-release/310279
Sodium ascorbate is the form of vitamin C recommended by the late Dr. Robert F. Cathcart, III, MD for intravenous and intramuscular use.

Dr. Cathcart reported, "I have not had any trouble with sodium ascorbate solutions. I do not worry about the sterility of this because this solution is very bactericidal. I hear all sorts of weird stories from patients who have gotten their infusions elsewhere. I do not know if it is an acid problem (because ascorbic acid was used rather than sodium ascorbate) or whether some colleagues get carried away with what other things they add to the intravenous solutions.

"I think that there may be, at times minor troubles with commercially prepared solutions because of the following. I understand that the U.S. Pharmacopeia specifies that the solutions be made from ascorbic acid and then buffered with sodium hydroxide or sodium bicarbonate to a pH between 3.5 and 7.0. I worry that 60 grams of ascorbate at a pH of 3.5 is too acid. I know that Fred Klenner (the first physician who used high dose intravenous ascorbate by vein) also made his solutions from sodium ascorbate powder. The pH of this has always turned out to be 7.4."

Dr. Cathcart describes how to prepare sodium ascorbate for IV at Vitamin C Foundation.org/ivc/civprep.pdf

or search for Dr. Cathcart on youtube.com

more at the webpage

http://www.doctoryourself.com/cathcart_thirdface.html
The Third Face of Vitamin C
Robert F. Cathcart, M.D.
Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 7:4;197-200, 1993.
"ABSTRACT
Bowel tolerance to orally ingested ascorbic acid increases with the toxicity of diseases. Bowel tolerance with a disease such as mononucleosis may reach 200 or more grams per 24 hours without it producing diarrhea. A marked clinical amelioration or cure is achieved in many disease processes when threshold doses near bowel tolerance are given. In a sense, it is the reducing equivalents carried by free radical scavengers that quench free radicals, not the free radical scavengers themselves. Ascorbic acid can be dramatically useful in quenching free radicals because it is usually tolerated in amounts necessary to provide the reducing equivalents necessary to quench almost all the free radicals generated by severe disease processes. Vitamin C functions are incidental at these dose levels; the benefit is from the reducing equivalents carried. To the extent that free radicals are either essential to the perpetuation of a disease or just part of the cause of symptoms, the disease will be cured or just ameliorated. These effects are even more dramatic from intravenous sodium ascorbate. "

http://www.garynullforum.com/GNthisArti ... rticle=240
"You are probably familiar with Linus Pauling's views in favor of the heavy use of Vitamin C, one of the great anti-oxidants. Much original work with large dosages of Vitamin C was done by Fred R. Klenner, M.D. of North Carolina. Dr. Klenner found that viral diseases could be cured by intravenous sodium ascorbate in amounts up to 200 grams per 24 hours "

"Irwin Stone pointed out the significance of Vitamin C in the treatment of many diseases, and also that humans were unable to synthesize ascorbate, resulting in the medical condition called hypoascorbemia - diseases attributed to or caused by the insufficiency of Vitamin C. Linus Pauling, Ph.D., reviewed the literature on Vitamin C and led the crusade to make it known to the public and the medical profession. Ewing Cameron in association with Linus Pauling showed the usefulness of ascorbate when treating cancer. "

http://www.mall-net.com/cathcart/unprimed.html

There is frequently a
dramatic decrease in symptoms just before diarrhea is
produced. The individual patient has to be tolerant to oral
ascorbic acid to achieve this effect but fully 80% of
patients are tolerant enough. I call the process whereby
the patient determines an appropriate dose of ascorbic acid,
titrating_to_bowel_tolerance. Intravenous sodium ascorbate
is even more effective. "\
Sheri
At 06:24 PM 1/23/2013, you wrote:

It may be basic to you - it's not to me. I do not care which mineral is attached to the ascorbate for a specific tradename - as I do not use mineral ascorbates for all the reasons good research gives.

Except for the added unwanted salt, there is no difference between intravenous sodium ascorbate and intravenous ascorbic acid. In BOTH cases, there is ascorbate as an ion, so it is a storm in a teacup.
In high doses, in sick people, the sodium is an issue.

In oral use, ascorbic acid is far superior.

Quote whatever you wish. It does not change the chemistry, or the effect of excess sodium on the system, which you do not seem to understand, and which explains the differences.

Namaste,
Irene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

There was a very good mineral ascorbate vitamin C product made by Alacer Corp which now is no longer sold. They make Emergen-C, a fizzy vitamin C product you mix with water and sold all over.
Upon reseaching, I see Alacer was purchased by Pfilzer!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-2 ... -line.html
Susan

The enemy!

now that I am confused as to what it best can I get some advice here?

I have many kids on the autistic spectrum on Vit C (ascorbate acid) and Ascorbyl palmitate.

this is what is in the Buffered Vit C that I use. vitamin C ..............................................................................................................................2,024 mg (from calcium ascorbate, magnesium ascorbate and potassium ascorbate)

calcium (from calcium ascorbate) .....................................................................................387 mg magnesium (from magnesium ascorbate).........................................................................216 mg potassium (from potassium ascorbate)...............................................................................66 mg

are there any concerns with this?

thanks,
Lora

And just to be more confusing, many ascorbates are GE sourced from corn.
You really need to call the manufacturer for certification that your product is GE free.
t
From: Lora Roberts
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:57 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Vitamin C - ascorbate..........

now that I am confused as to what it best can I get some advice here?
I have many kids on the autistic spectrum on Vit C (ascorbate acid) and Ascorbyl palmitate.
this is what is in the Buffered Vit C that I use. vitamin C ..............................................................................................................................2,024 mg (from calcium ascorbate, magnesium ascorbate and potassium ascorbate)

calcium (from calcium ascorbate) .....................................................................................387 mg magnesium (from magnesium ascorbate).........................................................................216 mg potassium (from potassium ascorbate)...............................................................................66 mg

are there any concerns with this?
thanks,
Lora

dear Lora
Where do you buy this product or do you buy the individual ingredients and mix them up in those proportions listed?
Thanks

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Lora Roberts wrote: