Minutus

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "leilanae" wrote:

Just found some info. Here's the link in case anyone else is interested:

http://www.narayana-verlag.de/homoeopat ... 1878_2.pdf

Hello Leilanae,

from a Scholten Lecture 2000
STAGE 14- FOREBODING OF HELL; EMPTINESS AND LACK OF CONTACT – Erbium is emptiness, duality, one side is a kind of relaxation like a paradise and on the other side, power and pain you can hardly endure it
Erbium carbonicum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium chloratum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium fluoratum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium iodatum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium metallicum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium nitricum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK
Erbium oxalicum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK
Erbium oxydatum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK
Erbium phosphoricum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK
Erbium sulfuricum C200 LM1 1MK
ERBIUM
----STAGE 14 Erbium = EMPTINESS, duality, one side is a kind of relaxation like a paradise and on the other side, power and pain you can hardly endure it
--Stage 14 EMPTINESS AND LACK OF CONTACT double feeling for all Lanthanides, behavior like everything is under control but yet it is not because they do not know what is going on (DDx Ni = not know what they feel but everything is under control, but underneath it is not).
-- Retire into their own world—LONELINESS (thulium)
--Er is the FOREBODING OF HELL
--Er feel heavy and look light BUT there is DISSOCIATION
--OVERCONTROL. Lack of incorporation of dark side and project it out onto world.
-- COMFORTABLY NUMB (Comfortably numb = Pink Floyd song) “I just absorbed it and placed the experienced into an emotional cupboard” ** good expression of feeling of Erbium. This is a survival mechanism, to survive by pretending you are dead, not allowed to feel or react, the soldiers go thru field and check to see if any one is alive by poking them, so to survive they must pretend death)-- Dorise feeling w “Comfortably numb” by Pink Floyd: Two sides = pain + ecstasy, light + dark, Above + below, empty and full, going from body and leaving is sad and painful BUT once separated you rise above feels. Feel light and separated from the pain of life, See colours like cloudy surface of CD, sparkle, down through this see earth, comfortable more disconnected, not caring and above the pain of life than numb. Class response = floating above angst (existential pain). COMFORTABLY NUMB, anxiety and pain, I can not hear you but see you, contact and not having contact, not have contact w self either, not feel own emotions any more, foreboding of thing go wrong can not know it or feel it but know it like a sensation but not know when where what or why. FEELING SINCE SEPT 11 (Nadia, Dorise and many others)
-- a family member --just walk there not belonging to family, NOT FEELING
--Longing
--Feeling on beach wave rolling in, sad undertone, like a damage that happen and reflecting on it, celebrating who we are as a world
--Bitter sweet, deep union for the last time
--Comparisons:
(DDx Opium, Heroin = these are quite similar in anesthesia. But . In old days in war, survival mechanism, to survive by pretending you are dead, not allowed to feel or react, the soldiers go thru field and check to see if any one is alive by poking them, so to survive they must pretend death)
(DDx Cann-i= not diff between life and death, is happiness, laugh about it, survival mechanism it to not take life seriously, )
(DDx Noble gas = similar feeling but going out of body)
--Er maybe sensitive to Opium, Heroin addiction, almost panicky about not wanting to feel so these drugs prevent these feeling
Pathologies
--Eating Disorders? Bulimia take in and not feel it? heaviness Anorexia
--Child abuse DDx Opium, Er, (Noble gases not know or feel)
--DDx Prostitution Fluoratum have feeling not feeling, slippery and same w moral feelings are slippery, they are consciousness known yet they let the ethic slip away quickly and do the unethical thing)
--Sleep apnea = over dose of heroin and opium = respiratory center shuts down
--Er in drug addicts can not stand world or cope w world, hardly have social interaction hence retire into their own world. Erbium more problem with their inside world and project to outside world, MUST incorporate bad or dark part or let this go
--Problem is more over control, maybe in an end stage they might go to insanity Jan does not know
-
Case
Erbium
CASE:
25 yo male, heroin addiction for 6 years. Before that used cannabis.
Averse answering to his mother. Averse social games.
Outsider. Ironic in distant way – doesn’t know if serious or joking.
At 5 he fractured his wrist, but mother only found out two days later when he fell on it again.
Tremendous compassion, can call birds out of the skiy. Romantic, sensitive, compassion. Saved friends from OD of heroin, knowing exactly what to do. When addicted he could also be cruel and violating trust of father, stealing alcohol and money from father, but never money. Taught himself computer programming (didn’t finish school). He reads a lot in libraries, has deep thoughts about things, knows a lot.
Lately, though has feeling of holes in his mind. Loves music a lot – Pink Floyd, album “The Wall.”
Birth problematic for mother, gave pethidine without asking her permission. Made her paralyzed, silly, angry at loss of face.
Labor was strong and intense – made her push 3 times for every contraction instead of ormal twice. Felt rushed and hurried, explosive as if she would burst. Baby born in ½ hour – too quick. He wanted to eat every three hours, but hospital wouldn’t let him eat except every four hours. Too exhausted from crying to drink when they finally fed him. Developed fast. Walked at talked at 89 months, full sentences at 15 months. Headphones at 2, and he was blown away by the music. Retreated and regressed when brother was born.
He feels guarded.
Has red hair.
Jan Scholten has never seen the boy. Received case from the mother. Talking about Erbium, Stage 14.
Played Pink Floyd when he was talking about Erbium, especially song called “Comfortably numb” – felt like state of Erbium. Same state as JS experienced during proving. The mother was wild hearing the music, because that’s what her son listened to all the time, and it sent her back into the situation of her labor.
She gave her son Erbium, and he did very well.
Situation of birth was her autonomy was not accepted, she was taken over. She was powerless, but it looked as if she had power on the surface.
PARALYSIS IS STRONG SX FOR LANTHANIDES AND GOLD SERIES.
So this boy grew up with the impression from his birth. It’s also possible baby was already in this state and provoked it in his mother.
He’s definitely a Lanthanide: intelligent, precocious, special, (birds connected with Lanthanides – same qualities, desire for freedom, electro-magnetic frequency.),
Of the Lanthanides, Erbium is the strongest for addictions. Want to be free, but don’t have real power. Erbium proving felt terrible, like doom, something terrible happening, falling into the black hole – feel it will happen but don’t know how when or where. Can’t do anything about it and it feels terrible – that’s why they use heroin – comfortably numb. Opium has a strong connection with Erbium – way out, comfortably numb.
Lanthanides are Precocious, passionate, ironic, self-willed, sensitive ( like birds)
Irony is a diversion so you can’t be responsible for what you do.
After Erbium, he became much more open, started telling stories, and also about how heroin addiction felt. Talked abut his sex life with her – shameless honesty, inappropriate. Switched to Methadone, got a job which he’s kept.
Not Erbium muriaticum because he’s not having trouble with the mother. But because the mother felt like bursting, Erbium nitricum might be possible.
Colors:
Red:
Means action – psoric
Blue:
Desire for contemplation, thinking about things
Yellow:
Desire for change; drug remedies
-------------------------
Proving (Meditation) 2001
in
Secret Lanthanides, by Scholten, Jan
Lynn
---------------------------------------------------------
leilanae
Sunday, December 25, 2011 3:15 AM

Just found some info. Here's the link in case anyone else is interested:

http://www.narayana-verlag.de/homoeopat ... 1878_2.pdf
leilanae
Sunday, December 25, 2011 2:48 AM
Hi All,

Does anyone have any information about Erb and/or Erb-c?

Thanks,

Leilanae-
________________________________

--
Imagine Peace

My notes from a lecture by Jackie McTaggart
Rochelle

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Erbium – carries the world on its shoulders without being able to change it

endures because doesn't know what to do

resigned/stoic/gloom/loss of hope/powerless

loses contact with emotions

sai as if nothing is there but an unknown thread

frozen/comfortably numb/shuts off/ flat and resigned due to lack of power

grey/gloom

slight aloofness

too sensitive for the world

Shadow in soul cannot be mastered

Hoards everything

Colourless quality
I am on my own in my own world. I am behaving as if there is no problem. They build a wall around themselves as if they don’t feel the problem. It is as if they are out of contact and retire into their own world.
Differentiation between stage 4 and 14
Cerium stage 4 - is that they have been pushed into a bell jar. Timidity, gentleness
Whereas Erbium stage 14 – feels locked in (cf germanium) build a wall around them for protection.
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Cremona
Sent: 25 December 2011 17:46
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: Erb and/or Erb-c - 2
Hello Leilanae,

from a Scholten Lecture 2000

STAGE 14- FOREBODING OF HELL; EMPTINESS AND LACK OF CONTACT – Erbium is emptiness, duality, one side is a kind of relaxation like a paradise and on the other side, power and pain you can hardly endure it
Erbium carbonicum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK

Erbium chloratum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK

Erbium fluoratum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK

Erbium iodatum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK

Erbium metallicum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK

Erbium nitricum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK

Erbium oxalicum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK

Erbium oxydatum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK

Erbium phosphoricum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK

Erbium sulfuricum C200 LM1 1MK

ERBIUM

----STAGE 14 Erbium = EMPTINESS, duality, one side is a kind of relaxation like a paradise and on the other side, power and pain you can hardly endure it

--Stage 14 EMPTINESS AND LACK OF CONTACT double feeling for all Lanthanides, behavior like everything is under control but yet it is not because they do not know what is going on (DDx Ni = not know what they feel but everything is under control, but underneath it is not).

-- Retire into their own world—LONELINESS (thulium)

--Er is the FOREBODING OF HELL

--Er feel heavy and look light BUT there is DISSOCIATION

--OVERCONTROL. Lack of incorporation of dark side and project it out onto world.

-- COMFORTABLY NUMB (Comfortably numb = Pink Floyd song) “I just absorbed it and placed the experienced into an emotional cupboard” ** good expression of feeling of Erbium. This is a survival mechanism, to survive by pretending you are dead, not allowed to feel or react, the soldiers go thru field and check to see if any one is alive by poking them, so to survive they must pretend death)-- Dorise feeling w “Comfortably numb” by Pink Floyd: Two sides = pain + ecstasy, light + dark, Above + below, empty and full, going from body and leaving is sad and painful BUT once separated you rise above feels. Feel light and separated from the pain of life, See colours like cloudy surface of CD, sparkle, down through this see earth, comfortable more disconnected, not caring and above the pain of life than numb. Class response = floating above angst (existential pain). COMFORTABLY NUMB, anxiety and pain, I can not hear you but see you, contact and not having contact, not have contact w self either, not feel own emotions any more, foreboding of thing go wrong can not know it or feel it but know it like a sensation but not know when where what or why. FEELING SINCE SEPT 11 (Nadia, Dorise and many others)

-- a family member --just walk there not belonging to family, NOT FEELING

--Longing

--Feeling on beach wave rolling in, sad undertone, like a damage that happen and reflecting on it, celebrating who we are as a world

--Bitter sweet, deep union for the last time
--Comparisons:

(DDx Opium, Heroin = these are quite similar in anesthesia. But . In old days in war, survival mechanism, to survive by pretending you are dead, not allowed to feel or react, the soldiers go thru field and check to see if any one is alive by poking them, so to survive they must pretend death)

(DDx Cann-i= not diff between life and death, is happiness, laugh about it, survival mechanism it to not take life seriously, )

(DDx Noble gas = similar feeling but going out of body)

--Er maybe sensitive to Opium, Heroin addiction, almost panicky about not wanting to feel so these drugs prevent these feeling
Pathologies

--Eating Disorders? Bulimia take in and not feel it? heaviness Anorexia

--Child abuse DDx Opium, Er, (Noble gases not know or feel)

--DDx Prostitution Fluoratum have feeling not feeling, slippery and same w moral feelings are slippery, they are consciousness known yet they let the ethic slip away quickly and do the unethical thing)

--Sleep apnea = over dose of heroin and opium = respiratory center shuts down

--Er in drug addicts can not stand world or cope w world, hardly have social interaction hence retire into their own world. Erbium more problem with their inside world and project to outside world, MUST incorporate bad or dark part or let this go

--Problem is more over control, maybe in an end stage they might go to insanity Jan does not know

-

Case

Erbium

CASE:
25 yo male, heroin addiction for 6 years. Before that used cannabis.
Averse answering to his mother. Averse social games.
Outsider. Ironic in distant way – doesn’t know if serious or joking.
At 5 he fractured his wrist, but mother only found out two days later when he fell on it again.
Tremendous compassion, can call birds out of the skiy. Romantic, sensitive, compassion. Saved friends from OD of heroin, knowing exactly what to do. When addicted he could also be cruel and violating trust of father, stealing alcohol and money from father, but never money. Taught himself computer programming (didn’t finish school). He reads a lot in libraries, has deep thoughts about things, knows a lot.
Lately, though has feeling of holes in his mind. Loves music a lot – Pink Floyd, album “The Wall.”
Birth problematic for mother, gave pethidine without asking her permission. Made her paralyzed, silly, angry at loss of face.
Labor was strong and intense – made her push 3 times for every contraction instead of ormal twice. Felt rushed and hurried, explosive as if she would burst. Baby born in ½ hour – too quick. He wanted to eat every three hours, but hospital wouldn’t let him eat except every four hours. Too exhausted from crying to drink when they finally fed him. Developed fast. Walked at talked at 89 months, full sentences at 15 months. Headphones at 2, and he was blown away by the music. Retreated and regressed when brother was born.
He feels guarded.
Has red hair.
Jan Scholten has never seen the boy. Received case from the mother. Talking about Erbium, Stage 14.
Played Pink Floyd when he was talking about Erbium, especially song called “Comfortably numb” – felt like state of Erbium. Same state as JS experienced during proving. The mother was wild hearing the music, because that’s what her son listened to all the time, and it sent her back into the situation of her labor.
She gave her son Erbium, and he did very well.
Situation of birth was her autonomy was not accepted, she was taken over. She was powerless, but it looked as if she had power on the surface.
PARALYSIS IS STRONG SX FOR LANTHANIDES AND GOLD SERIES.
So this boy grew up with the impression from his birth. It’s also possible baby was already in this state and provoked it in his mother.
He’s definitely a Lanthanide: intelligent, precocious, special, (birds connected with Lanthanides – same qualities, desire for freedom, electro-magnetic frequency.),
Of the Lanthanides, Erbium is the strongest for addictions. Want to be free, but don’t have real power. Erbium proving felt terrible, like doom, something terrible happening, falling into the black hole – feel it will happen but don’t know how when or where. Can’t do anything about it and it feels terrible – that’s why they use heroin – comfortably numb. Opium has a strong connection with Erbium – way out, comfortably numb.
Lanthanides are Precocious, passionate, ironic, self-willed, sensitive ( like birds)
Irony is a diversion so you can’t be responsible for what you do.
After Erbium, he became much more open, started telling stories, and also about how heroin addiction felt. Talked abut his sex life with her – shameless honesty, inappropriate. Switched to Methadone, got a job which he’s kept.
Not Erbium muriaticum because he’s not having trouble with the mother. But because the mother felt like bursting, Erbium nitricum might be possible.
Colors:

Red:

Means action – psoric
Blue:

Desire for contemplation, thinking about things
Yellow:

Desire for change; drug remedies

-------------------------
Proving (Meditation) 2001
in
Secret Lanthanides, by Scholten, Jan

Lynn
---------------------------------------------------------

leilanae

Sunday, December 25, 2011 3:15 AM
Just found some info. Here's the link in case anyone else is interested:

http://www.narayana-verlag.de/homoeopat ... 1878_2.pdf
leilanae

Sunday, December 25, 2011 2:48 AM

Hi All,

Does anyone have any information about Erb and/or Erb-c?

Thanks,

Leilanae-

________________________________
--
Imagine Peace

Hello all
Sorry if i sound a bit brutal, but after almost 30 years of homoeopathy trying to follow Hahnemann, i'm sick of reading such things...
I summarize what i think about that: beautiful case for gullible people searching for woolly theories.
Merry Christmas anyway
Ed
________________________________

De : Lynn Cremona
À : minutus@yahoogroups.com
Envoyé le : Dimanche 25 Décembre 2011 18h46
Objet : Re: [Minutus] Re: Erb and/or Erb-c - 2
Hello Leilanae,

from a Scholten Lecture 2000
STAGE 14- FOREBODING OF HELL; EMPTINESS AND LACK OF CONTACT – Erbium is emptiness, duality, one side is a kind of relaxation like a paradise and on the other side, power and pain you can hardly endure it
Erbium carbonicum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium chloratum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium fluoratum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium iodatum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium metallicum C200 LM1 Q1 10MK
Erbium nitricum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK
Erbium oxalicum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK
Erbium oxydatum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK
Erbium phosphoricum C200 LM1 Q1 1MK
Erbium sulfuricum C200 LM1 1MK
ERBIUM
----STAGE 14 Erbium = EMPTINESS, duality, one side is a kind of relaxation like a paradise and on the other side, power and pain you can hardly endure it
--Stage 14 EMPTINESS AND LACK OF CONTACT double feeling for all Lanthanides, behavior like everything is under control but yet it is not because they do not know what is going on (DDx Ni = not know what they feel but everything is under control, but underneath it is not).
-- Retire into their own world—LONELINESS (thulium)
--Er is the FOREBODING OF HELL
--Er feel heavy and look light BUT there is DISSOCIATION
--OVERCONTROL. Lack of incorporation of dark side and project it out onto world.
-- COMFORTABLY NUMB (Comfortably numb = Pink Floyd song) “I just absorbed it and placed the experienced into an emotional cupboard” ** good expression of feeling of Erbium. This is a survival mechanism, to survive by pretending you are dead, not allowed to feel or react, the soldiers go thru field and check to see if any one is alive by poking them, so to survive they must pretend death)-- Dorise feeling w “Comfortably numb” by Pink Floyd: Two sides = pain + ecstasy, light + dark, Above + below, empty and full, going from body and leaving is sad and painful BUT once separated you rise above feels. Feel light and separated from the pain of life, See colours like cloudy surface of CD, sparkle, down through this see earth, comfortable more disconnected, not caring and above the pain of life than numb. Class response = floating above angst (existential pain). COMFORTABLY NUMB, anxiety and pain, I can not hear you but see you, contact and not having contact, not have contact w self either, not feel own emotions any more, foreboding of thing go wrong can not know it or feel it but know it like a sensation but not know when where what or why. FEELING SINCE SEPT 11 (Nadia, Dorise and many others)
-- a family member --just walk there not belonging to family, NOT FEELING
--Longing
--Feeling on beach wave rolling in, sad undertone, like a damage that happen and reflecting on it, celebrating who we are as a world
--Bitter sweet, deep union for the last time
--Comparisons:
(DDx Opium, Heroin = these are quite similar in anesthesia. But . In old days in war, survival mechanism, to survive by pretending you are dead, not allowed to feel or react, the soldiers go thru field and check to see if any one is alive by poking them, so to survive they must pretend death)
(DDx Cann-i= not diff between life and death, is happiness, laugh about it, survival mechanism it to not take life seriously, )
(DDx Noble gas = similar feeling but going out of body)
--Er maybe sensitive to Opium, Heroin addiction, almost panicky about not wanting to feel so these drugs prevent these feeling
Pathologies
--Eating Disorders? Bulimia take in and not feel it? heaviness Anorexia
--Child abuse DDx Opium, Er, (Noble gases not know or feel)
--DDx Prostitution Fluoratum have feeling not feeling, slippery and same w moral feelings are slippery, they are consciousness known yet they let the ethic slip away quickly and do the unethical thing)
--Sleep apnea = over dose of heroin and opium = respiratory center shuts down
--Er in drug addicts can not stand world or cope w world, hardly have social interaction hence retire into their own world. Erbium more problem with their inside world and project to outside world, MUST incorporate bad or dark part or let this go
--Problem is more over control, maybe in an end stage they might go to insanity Jan does not know
-
Case
Erbium
CASE:
25 yo male, heroin addiction for 6 years. Before that used cannabis.
Averse answering to his mother. Averse social games.
Outsider. Ironic in distant way – doesn’t know if serious or joking.
At 5 he fractured his wrist, but mother only found out two days later when he fell on it again.
Tremendous compassion, can call birds out of the skiy. Romantic, sensitive, compassion. Saved friends from OD of heroin, knowing exactly what to do. When addicted he could also be cruel and violating trust of father, stealing alcohol and money from father, but never money. Taught himself computer programming (didn’t finish school). He reads a lot in libraries, has deep thoughts about things, knows a lot.
Lately, though has feeling of holes in his mind. Loves music a lot – Pink Floyd, album “The Wall.”
Birth problematic for mother, gave pethidine without asking her permission. Made her paralyzed, silly, angry at loss of face.
Labor was strong and intense – made her push 3 times for every contraction instead of ormal twice. Felt rushed and hurried, explosive as if she would burst. Baby born in ½ hour – too quick. He wanted to eat every three hours, but hospital wouldn’t let him eat except every four hours. Too exhausted from crying to drink when they finally fed him. Developed fast. Walked at talked at 89 months, full sentences at 15 months. Headphones at 2, and he was blown away by the music. Retreated and regressed when brother was born.
He feels guarded.
Has red hair.
Jan Scholten has never seen the boy. Received case from the mother. Talking about Erbium, Stage 14.
Played Pink Floyd when he was talking about Erbium, especially song called “Comfortably numb” – felt like state of Erbium. Same state as JS experienced during proving. The mother was wild hearing the music, because that’s what her son listened to all the time, and it sent her back into the situation of her labor.
She gave her son Erbium, and he did very well.
Situation of birth was her autonomy was not accepted, she was taken over. She was powerless, but it looked as if she had power on the surface.
PARALYSIS IS STRONG SX FOR LANTHANIDES AND GOLD SERIES.
So this boy grew up with the impression from his birth. It’s also possible baby was already in this state and provoked it in his mother.
He’s definitely a Lanthanide: intelligent, precocious, special, (birds connected with Lanthanides – same qualities, desire for freedom, electro-magnetic frequency.),
Of the Lanthanides, Erbium is the strongest for addictions. Want to be free, but don’t have real power. Erbium proving felt terrible, like doom, something terrible happening, falling into the black hole – feel it will happen but don’t know how when or where. Can’t do anything about it and it feels terrible – that’s why they use heroin – comfortably numb. Opium has a strong connection with Erbium – way out, comfortably numb.
Lanthanides are Precocious, passionate, ironic, self-willed, sensitive ( like birds)
Irony is a diversion so you can’t be responsible for what you do.
After Erbium, he became much more open, started telling stories, and also about how heroin addiction felt. Talked abut his sex life with her – shameless honesty, inappropriate. Switched to Methadone, got a job which he’s kept.
Not Erbium muriaticum because he’s not having trouble with the mother. But because the mother felt like bursting, Erbium nitricum might be possible.
Colors:
Red:
Means action – psoric
Blue:
Desire for contemplation, thinking about things
Yellow:
Desire for change; drug remedies
-------------------------
Proving (Meditation) 2001
in
Secret Lanthanides, by Scholten, Jan
Lynn
---------------------------------------------------------
leilanae
Sunday, December 25, 2011 3:15 AM

Just found some info. Here's the link in case anyone else is interested:

http://www.narayana-verlag.de/homoeopat ... 1878_2.pdf
leilanae
Sunday, December 25, 2011 2:48 AM
Hi All,

Does anyone have any information about Erb and/or Erb-c?

Thanks,

Leilanae-
________________________________

--
Imagine Peace

Ed - I have studied the Lanthanides for 2 or 3 years with Jackie McTaggart who uses them all the time and has lots of cases where they have proved successful. I have used themn with some of my cases and have also had successes with Cerium, Europium Fl and Samarium which I can think of immediately. I have found them deep and work slowly and benefit from repeating. I used Lanthanum Oxydatum with a patient who never returned because it brought back an old serious symptom he was very upset about getting back. I never did find out if he continued to cure.

Please don't dismiss new remedies. I agree that the provings on these are suspect but because they are being used in the North of England we have built up a lot of clinical knowledge.

Rochelle
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Edouard Broussalian wrote:

Hi Lynn and Rochelle,

Thanks for the information.

Leilanae

------------------------------------------------------

thanks for sharing your experience Rochelle.
I have been watching this repeat discussion and not saying much.
In thinking about the attacks on new remedy use, this is what I think..
First many remedies of Hahnemann were used based on clinical experience
with poisonings and also clinical experience of using the potentized form of the
material. Clinical observation is very central to Hahnemannian thinking and practice.
Second, homeopathy is an energy system based on matching energy patterns. This
in itself recognizes that energy patterns exist. What Scholten did was look at the periodic
table and see it as a table of energy patterns that changed in a particular progression from
left to right and top to bottom. He looked at the remedies that we did have proven and
where they were located on the periodic table. If the table is a progression of energy patterns,
he matched those patterns with the provings of many remedies. The patterns of expression of
the elemental energy became clearly seen as systematic in terms of pathology as well as
the chemistry of the table. It seems to me quite brilliant of Scholten to have put this together.
He was experimental in that he used the table and its relation to human pathology to figure
out the use for the unproven elements/remedies. Clinical application began to validate his
theory. People should do formal provings of the unproven and minimally proven elements, no
doubt. But it seems perfectly valid to participate in this level of understanding of energy
patterns.
Sankaran has joined in with Scholten’s thinking in surmising that plants can be categorized
in a similar or mirror image to the periodic table. His work, in part, has been about testing
his theory out to validate it. I see not difference in these men’s work than the kind of open-minded
thinking of Hahnemann.
This is not to confuse deepening our understanding of the energy patterns of the world with the
cheap, allpathic approach of creating combination remedies in 1C and 6x potencies.
tanya
From: rochelle_marsden
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2011 5:11 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re : [Minutus] Re: Erb and/or Erb-c - 2

Ed - I have studied the Lanthanides for 2 or 3 years with Jackie McTaggart who uses them all the time and has lots of cases where they have proved successful. I have used themn with some of my cases and have also had successes with Cerium, Europium Fl and Samarium which I can think of immediately. I have found them deep and work slowly and benefit from repeating. I used Lanthanum Oxydatum with a patient who never returned because it brought back an old serious symptom he was very upset about getting back. I never did find out if he continued to cure.

Please don't dismiss new remedies. I agree that the provings on these are suspect but because they are being used in the North of England we have built up a lot of clinical knowledge.

Rochelle
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk

--- In mailto:minutus%40yahoogroups.com, Edouard Broussalian wrote:

Well said Tanya!!!
Rochelle Marsden Msc, RSHom, MNWCH, AAMET

Registered with the Society of Homeopaths

EFT(Advanced) Practitioner

www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tamarque
thanks for sharing your experience Rochelle.
I have been watching this repeat discussion and not saying much.

In thinking about the attacks on new remedy use, this is what I think..

First many remedies of Hahnemann were used based on clinical experience

with poisonings and also clinical experience of using the potentized form of the

material. Clinical observation is very central to Hahnemannian thinking and practice.
Second, homeopathy is an energy system based on matching energy patterns. This

in itself recognizes that energy patterns exist. What Scholten did was look at the periodic

table and see it as a table of energy patterns that changed in a particular progression from

left to right and top to bottom. He looked at the remedies that we did have proven and

where they were located on the periodic table. If the table is a progression of energy patterns,

he matched those patterns with the provings of many remedies. The patterns of expression of

the elemental energy became clearly seen as systematic in terms of pathology as well as

the chemistry of the table. It seems to me quite brilliant of Scholten to have put this together.

He was experimental in that he used the table and its relation to human pathology to figure

out the use for the unproven elements/remedies. Clinical application began to validate his

theory. People should do formal provings of the unproven and minimally proven elements, no

doubt. But it seems perfectly valid to participate in this level of understanding of energy

patterns.
Sankaran has joined in with Scholten’s thinking in surmising that plants can be categorized

in a similar or mirror image to the periodic table. His work, in part, has been about testing

his theory out to validate it. I see not difference in these men’s work than the kind of open-minded

thinking of Hahnemann.
This is not to confuse deepening our understanding of the energy patterns of the world with the

cheap, allpathic approach of creating combination remedies in 1C and 6x potencies.
tanya
From: rochelle_marsden

Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2011 5:11 PM

To: minutus@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re : [Minutus] Re: Erb and/or Erb-c - 2
Ed - I have studied the Lanthanides for 2 or 3 years with Jackie McTaggart who uses them all the time and has lots of cases where they have proved successful. I have used themn with some of my cases and have also had successes with Cerium, Europium Fl and Samarium which I can think of immediately. I have found them deep and work slowly and benefit from repeating. I used Lanthanum Oxydatum with a patient who never returned because it brought back an old serious symptom he was very upset about getting back. I never did find out if he continued to cure.

Please don't dismiss new remedies. I agree that the provings on these are suspect but because they are being used in the North of England we have built up a lot of clinical knowledge.

Rochelle
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk

--- In mailto:minutus%40yahoogroups.com, Edouard Broussalian > wrote:

It's very interesting to note that an unanswerable argument receives as its only reply repetition of an unsubstantiable contention: the contention that defence of homoeopathy's sole principle, the law of similars, constitutes an attack on all that is new!
It's equally interesting to see that proponents of experimental medical practice, who invariably find pathogenetic knowledge too troublesome to rely upon, can state with certainty just how homoeopathy works -- referring to its energy force power signature pattern systems and the like -- and on that basis create all kinds of new schema for practising it without effort, without study, and in fact without knowing or understanding anything at all. It's a wonderful development in homoeopathy, and we all praise the several hundred thousand practitioners in the dustbin of homoeopathic history who contributed again and again their highly original "new" methods that, free of all pathogenetic knowledge, rely merely on that great source of traditional wisdom: experience.
I wonder whether it ever occurs to those singing the praises of the Scholtens, the Sankarans, and the other practitioners betraying homoeopathy's sole principle that they could attempt to respond to the critical arguments ranged against the homoeopathicity of these practices by Andre Saine, by Kerry, by Rik, by me, by Fran, by Catherine, and by Vera, or to answer the critical questions posed by Rik, by me, and by Soroush. To take a single instance: of the medicines whose "homoeopathic" indications Scholten's method of creating "knowledge" has provided us, what are we to make of those that are physical impossibilities, and what are we to make of those that cannot be exposed to water without chemically changing their nature? And, yet again, why are water (H2O) and hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) at such wild variance with each other in their pathogenetic effects though Scholten's conjectures would imbue them with identical effects?
In homoeopathy, experiment does play a vital role: in the creation of pathogenetic knowledge, for it is this knowledge that homoeopathy uses for prescribing. Experiment played as well a historical role first in uncovering the (indicative) law of similars and then in showing that the (imperative) law of similars succeeds as no other method does in providing a patient outcome that is incomparable for its gentleness, rapidity, permanence, and freedom from untoward effects.
These are the chief roles of experiment in homoeopathy, though experimentation with timing, potency, and susceptibility to antidote, amongst other matters, has value in increasing the success of homoeopathic treatment. To "experiment" by providing, as homoeopathic indications, suggestions that arise not from pathogenesis but from removal of symptoms is to attempt to add to homoeopathy by first removing it entirely. It's an absurdity.
Clinical observation -- i.e. observation of what symptoms a medicine has removed in a patient -- plays no role whatsoever in homoeopathy. Such "experience" is worse than useless and less than worthless to homoeopathic prescribing, as it pollutes the materia medica pura with indications belonging only in the materia medica allopathica. Fervent wishful thinking of modern commentators aside, Hahnemann did not (and, of course, couldn't) offer "cured" symptoms any place in homoeopathic prescribing, and he warned most explicitly against all reliance on symptoms so obtained. See, for instance:
§ 20 (Medicines' power to alter health can't be discovered by a mere effort of reason but only by experiencing the phenomena it displays when acting on the state of health),
§ 21 (Nothing can be observed that makes medicines medicines except their power of causing distinct alterations in the state of health of the human body and of exciting various definite morbid symptoms, and they can bring their curative power into play only by means of this power of producing peculiar symptoms),
§ 105 (A true physician acquires a knowledge of the instruments intended for the cure of the natural diseases, by investigating the pathogenetic power of the medicines),
§ 110 (the materia medica preceding the materia medica pura consisted solely of conjectures and fictions [such as Sankaran's and Scholten's], which is to say that it did not exist at all),
§ 119, footnote 99 (Any physician not entirely devoid of reason can employ in medicine any substance with whose positive action on the health of healthy individuals he is not thoroughly conversant; posterity will scarcely believe that hitherto physicians have prescribed medicines whose pure dynamic action on the health of man has never been tested and that they moreover mingled several of these unknown medicines and left it to chance to determine their effect on the patient),
§ 143 (Only if we have tested a considerable number of medicines on the healthy individual "and carefully and faithfully registered all the disease elements and symptoms they are capable of developing as artificial disease-producers" do we have a true materia medica—a collection of real, pure, reliable modes of action of simple medicinal substances),
§ 144 (From such a materia medica, everything that is conjectural, all that is mere assertion or imaginary should be strictly excluded; everything should be the pure language of nature carefully and honestly interrogated),
§ 147 (The homoeopathic remedy for the natural disease is that medicine, of those that have been investigated as to their power of altering man's health, contains the greatest similarity to the totality of the symptoms), and
§ 285, footnote 165 (A fundamental principle of the homoeopathic physician -- on that distinguishes him from every physician of all older schools -- is that he never employs for any patient a medicine whose effects on the healthy human have not previously been carefully proven and thus made known to him; he will leave the conscienceless venture of prescribing upon mere conjecture of some possible usefulness for some similar disease or from hearsay that it has helped in such-and-such a disease to the allopath).
And yes, there are further references in the Organon to homoeopathy's utter reliance upon pathogenetic, not clinical, knowledge. Try reading § 192 (which again explicitly relates the patient's totality to the medicine's pathogenesis in homoeopathic prescribing) and most particularly § 257 (which explicitly warns against using a medicine on the basis of previous successes).
Two confusions most commonly give rise to the notion that Hahnemann used "cured" symptoms as a basis for prescribing. One arises from his use of symptoms caused by toxic doses, which -- because toxic doses tend to have broad effects that are unrefined and gross -- has occasionally been interpreted as use of gross categories of illness rather than the patient's individual totality as a basis for prescribing and thereby as use of a medicine upon a reputation in a gross category of illness. The other arises from Hahnemann's judicious use of pathogenetic symptoms that have arisen not in the healthy but in the ill, which has been misunderstood to be no different from using "cured" symptoms in the ill but is in fact a world away from doing so.
Kind regards,
John

Correction: my summary of the relevant content of § 119, footnote 99, should say:

Any physician not entirely devoid of reason cannot employ in medicine any substance with whose positive action on the health of healthy individuals he is not thoroughly conversant; posterity will scarcely believe that hitherto physicians have prescribed medicines whose pure dynamic action on the health of man has never been tested and that they moreover mingled several of these unknown medicines and left it to chance to determine their effect on the patient.
Cheers --
John