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Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:16 am
by Soroush Ebrahimi
I have underlined 3 words below. Although Hahnemann talks about Sycosis and Syphilitic miasms, we
now know that these are cause by the micro organisms HPV (for the Gonorrhoea that Hn talks about)
and spirochetal bacterium Treponema pallidu for Syphilis. But when it comes to Psora, the picture
is not so clear - hence he calls it the 1000 headed hydra. But here he mentions 'variety of
injurious agencies.' [Please note that these agencies are not necessarily micro organisms.]
In contrast now look at Dr Ardavan Shahrdar's work where he has clarified the effects of most micro
organisms and when one note their effects in each patient and analyses them the Similimum becomes
much easier to find.
Please read 81 and then go to http://www.repertoriumvirosum.com/about.htm
Soroush

§ 81
The fact that this extremely ancient infecting agent has gradually passed, in some hundreds of
generations, through many millions of human organisms and has thus attained an incredible
development, renders it in some measure conceivable how it can now display such innumerable morbid
forms in the great family of mankind, particularly when we consider what a number of circumstances1
contribute to the production of these great varieties of chronic diseases (secondary symptoms of
psora), besides the indescribable diversity of men in respect of their congenital corporeal
constitutions, so that it is no wonder if such a variety of injurious agencies, acting from within
and from without and sometimes continually, on such a variety of organisms permeated with the psoric
miasm, should produce an innumerable variety of defects, injuries, derangements and sufferings,
which have hitherto been treated of in the old pathological works2, under a number of special names,
as diseases of an independent character.
1 Some of these causes that exercise a modifying influence on the transformation of psora into
chronic diseases manifestly depend sometimes on the climate and the peculiar physical character of
the place of abode, sometimes on the very great varieties in the physical and mental training of
youth, both of which may have been neglected, delayed or carried to excess, or on their abuse in the
business or conditions of life, in the matter of diet and regimen, passions, manners, habits and
customs of various kinds.
2 How many improper ambiguous names do not these works contain, under each of which are included
excessively different morbid conditions, which often resemble each other in one single symptom only,
as ague, jaundice, dropsy, consumption, leucorrhoea, haemorrhoids, rheumatism, apoplexy,
convulsions, hysteria, hypochondriasis, melancholia, mania, quinsy, palsy, etc., which are
represented as diseases of a fixed and unvarying character, and are treated, on account of their
name, according to a determinate plan! How can the bestowal of such a name justify an identical
medical treatment? And if the treatment is not always to be the same, why make use of an identical
name which postulates an identity of treatment? "Nihil sane in artem medicam pestiferum magis unquam
irrepsit malum, quam generalia quaedam medicinam," says Huxham, a man as clear-sighted as he was
estimable on account of his conscientiousness (Op. phys. med., tom. I.). And in like manner Frittze
laments (Annalen, I, p.80) "that essentially different diseases are designated by the same name."
Even those epidemic diseases, which undoubtedly may be propagated in every separate epidemic by a
peculiar contagious principle which remains unknown to us, are designated, in the old school of
medicine by particular names, just as if they were well-known fixed diseases that invariably
recurred under the same form, as hospital fever, goal fever, camp fever, putrid fever, bilious
fever, nervous fever, mucous fever, although each epidemic of such roving fevers exhibits itself at
every occurrence as another, a new disease, such as it has never before appeared in exactly the same
form, differing very much, in every instance, in its course, as well as in many of its most striking
symptoms and its whole appearance. Each is so for dissimilar to all previous epidemics, whatever
names they may bear, that it would be dereliction of all logical accuracy in our ideas of things
were we to give to these maladies, that differ so much among themselves, one of those names we meet
with in pathological writings, and treat them all medicinally in conformity with this misused name.
The candid Sydenham alone perceived this, when he (Obs. med., cap. ii, De morb, epid.) insists upon
the necessity of not considering any epidemic disease as having occurred before and treating it in
the same way as another, since all that occur successively, be they ever so numerous, differ from
one another: "Nihil quicquam (opinor,) animum universae qua patet medicinae pomoeria perlustrantem,
tanta admiratione percellet, quam discolor illa et sui plane dissimilis morborum Epidemicorum
facies; non tam qua varias ejusdem anni tempestates, quam qua discrepantes divewrsorum ab invicem
annorum constitutiones referunt, ab iisque dependent. Quae tam aperta praedictorum morborum
diversitas tum propriis ac sibi peculiaribus symptomatis, tum etiam medendi ratione, quam hi ab
illis disparem prorsus sibi vendicant, satis illucescit. Ex quibus constat morbus hosce, ut ut
externa quadantenus specie, er symptomatis aliquot utrisque pariter super venientibus, convenire
paulo incautioribus videantur, re tamen ipsa (si bene adverteris animum), alienae admondum esse
indolis, et distare ut aera lupinis."
From all this it is clear that these useless and misused names of diseases ought to have no
influence on the practice of the true physician, who knows that he has to judge of and to cure
diseases, not according to the similarity of the name of a single one of their symptoms, but
according to the totality of the signs of the individual state of each particular patient, whose
affection it is his duty carefully to investigate, but never to give a hypothetical guess at it.
If, however, it is deemed necessary sometimes to make use of names of diseases, in order, when
talking about a patient to ordinary persons, to render ourselves intelligible in few words, we ought
only to employ them as collective names, and tell them, eg., the patient has a kind of St. Vitus's
dance, a kind of dropsy, a kind of typhus, a kind of ague; but (in order to do away once and for all
with the mistaken notions these names give rise to) we should never say he has the St. Vitus's
dance, the typhus, the dropsy, the ague, as there are certainly no disease of these and similar
names of fixed unvarying character.

Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:05 pm
by Soroush Ebrahimi
Hia Joy
If someone is kept in an sterile condition, will they get chicken pox, or mumps, or rabies, or tetanus?
Rgds

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joy Lucas
Sent: 19 November 2010 14:04
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Aph 81 - Organon 6
I know it's that 'old argument' again but.... yes those micro organisms might well be present, i.e. can be identified under lab conditions from discharges etc but 'caused by' is as debatable as it always has been :-)
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com

http://www.streetcollege.co.uk
[Attachment(s) from finrod@finrod.co.uk included below]

I have underlined 3 words below. Although Hahnemann talks about Sycosis and Syphilitic miasms, we
now know that these are cause by the micro organisms HPV (for the Gonorrhoea that Hn talks about)
and spirochetal bacterium Treponema pallidu for Syphilis. But when it comes to Psora, the picture
is not so clear - hence he calls it the 1000 headed hydra. But here he mentions 'variety of
injurious agencies.' [Please note that these agencies are not necessarily micro organisms.]
In contrast now look at Dr Ardavan Shahrdar's work where he has clarified the effects of most micro
organisms and when one note their effects in each patient and analyses them the Similimum becomes
much easier to find.
Please read 81 and then go to http://www.repertoriumvirosum.com/about.htm
Soroush

§ 81
The fact that this extremely ancient infecting agent has gradually passed, in some hundreds of
generations, through many millions of human organisms and has thus attained an incredible
development, renders it in some measure conceivable how it can now display such innumerable morbid
forms in the great family of mankind, particularly when we consider what a number of circumstances1
contribute to the production of these great varieties of chronic diseases (secondary symptoms of
psora), besides the indescribable diversity of men in respect of their congenital corporeal
constitutions, so that it is no wonder if such a variety of injurious agencies, acting from within
and from without and sometimes continually, on such a variety of organisms permeated with the psoric
miasm, should produce an innumerable variety of defects, injuries, derangements and sufferings,
which have hitherto been treated of in the old pathological works2, under a number of special names,
as diseases of an independent character.
1 Some of these causes that exercise a modifying influence on the transformation of psora into
chronic diseases manifestly depend sometimes on the climate and the peculiar physical character of
the place of abode, sometimes on the very great varieties in the physical and mental training of
youth, both of which may have been neglected, delayed or carried to excess, or on their abuse in the
business or conditions of life, in the matter of diet and regimen, passions, manners, habits and
customs of various kinds.
edited
________________________________

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Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:28 pm
by Joy Lucas
of course they can and will - not least because living in a 'sterile' environment could be very disturbing to the vital force
Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.streetcollege.co.uk

Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:33 am
by Hennie Duits
It might be useful to define 'sterile' (by various 'standards')

Op 19-11-2010 16:05, finrod@finrod.co.uk schreef:

Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:19 am
by Hennie Duits
An experiment might be like this:
Some patient (maybe better: some organism) is isolated in a
‘sterile’ environment, and he/she/it is kept ‘sterile’ there
by all possible means.
However, most patients/its need some food and drink from
time to time.
So, just as a challenge, such food and drinks are prepared
by a row of patients, certain to be suffering from chicken
pox, mumps, rabies, tetanus, etc.
And before bringing such food and drinks into the sterile
environment, these get sterilised by all known means.
What would be likely to happen?
Op 21-11-2010 3:33, Hennie Duits schreef:

Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:33 am
by Soroush Ebrahimi
Or another easier way is to ask - can you have radishes without the radish seeds?
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hennie Duits
Sent: 21 November 2010 03:20
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Aph 81 - Organon 6
An experiment might be like this:
Some patient (maybe better: some organism) is isolated in a
‘sterile’ environment, and he/she/it is kept ‘sterile’ there
by all possible means.
However, most patients/its need some food and drink from
time to time.
So, just as a challenge, such food and drinks are prepared
by a row of patients, certain to be suffering from chicken
pox, mumps, rabies, tetanus, etc.
And before bringing such food and drinks into the sterile
environment, these get sterilised by all known means.
What would be likely to happen?
Op 21-11-2010 3:33, Hennie Duits schreef:
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Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:27 pm
by Joy Lucas
Radishes could be cloned or grafted without seeds but let's get back to the nitty gritty of this.

There are micro-organisms everywhere - good ones and ones that are labelled 'bad' because they have been identified with certain disease states.

Because we know they travel and are everywhere (for whatever their reason is to travel or attach to hosts - this still remains unclear) many have adopted the theory that the so called 'bad' organisms 'infect' and actually cause the various disease states they are associated with.

But Hahnemann tells us in § 11 that this is a conceptual infection, where the 'morbific agents' travel and they will only make someone ill when the vital force is deranged and this is totally dependent on susceptibility.

I still find it astonishing that homeopaths fall for this 'infection' notion, i.e. that once the morbific agent has entered it will automatically cause illness. This is how the allopaths think, this is why they love antibiotics to sterilise the body, thinking the bad bugs will be killed off. What exactly would be a sterile environment?

The western world especially is totally obsessed with infection and the misnomers about the cause of illness. We spend billions of $ on cleansing our worlds and all it brings is ecological damage, and personal health damage and huge profit for the scare mongers. Who really believes that washing the hands with soap leaves bacteria free hands. What is this craving for antiseptism?

Lets say there is a symbiotic relationship with micro-organisms, they have to be there for a reason, then the whole notion of a sterile environment is very stressful on the vital force and in itself could trigger someone's susceptibility into developing a disease state.

So please read § 11 again along with the long foot note where Hahnemann explains how the dynamic influence (the morbific agents) works along with his explanation of 'infection'.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.streetcollege.co.uk

Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:17 pm
by Theresa Partington
....or chickens without eggs or eggs without chickens.

The person will have a susceptibility to a kind of disease, a miasmatic weakness that will have to be expressed regardless. If the bugs aren't there might they not express the dis-ease in a very similar way? Just as there is a cough indistinguishable from whooping cough, except in the lab. Diseases mimic other diseases and can be labelled by the name of the infectious version without having been historically 'caused' by it. We are dealiing with similars, after all, not necessarily 'sames'.

Theresa
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:38 pm
by Soroush Ebrahimi
Dear Joy
So you have accepted that you need something from a radish to propagate it!
Of course susceptibility is important – neigh essential. This explains why when someone with flu sneezes on a bus, not everyone in the bus will get flu. The susceptible ones will and the others won’t.
Hahnemann clearly refers to the agents and I purposefully underlined the magic three words “variety of injurious agencies” (shame the underlining did not come through!).
Our susceptibility is the soil (which Pasteur admitted to on his death-bed) and the particular micro-organism etc is the seeds to get a particular named disease to establish itself in the body – e.g. chickenpox, measles, etc. Without the susceptibility the micro organism cannot do much! For example something like 10% of the population are carriers of the meningitis organisms (swabs from their throat will show this) but they are immune to it.
Also certain micro organisms are safe in one part of the body but not in others. Some are perfectly OK in the lower digestive system, but introduce them to the upper digestive system and the person could have a major crisis.
With my highest regards – as ever

Soroush
________________________________

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joy Lucas
Sent: 21 November 2010 12:27
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Aph 81 - Organon 6
Radishes could be cloned or grafted without seeds but let's get back to the nitty gritty of this.
There are micro-organisms everywhere - good ones and ones that are labelled 'bad' because they have been identified with certain disease states.
Because we know they travel and are everywhere (for whatever their reason is to travel or attach to hosts - this still remains unclear) many have adopted the theory that the so called 'bad' organisms 'infect' and actually cause the various disease states they are associated with.
But Hahnemann tells us in § 11 that this is a conceptual infection, where the 'morbific agents' travel and they will only make someone ill when the vital force is deranged and this is totally dependent on susceptibility.
I still find it astonishing that homeopaths fall for this 'infection' notion, i.e. that once the morbific agent has entered it will automatically cause illness. This is how the allopaths think, this is why they love antibiotics to sterilise the body, thinking the bad bugs will be killed off. What exactly would be a sterile environment?
The western world especially is totally obsessed with infection and the misnomers about the cause of illness. We spend billions of $ on cleansing our worlds and all it brings is ecological damage, and personal health damage and huge profit for the scare mongers. Who really believes that washing the hands with soap leaves bacteria free hands. What is this craving for antiseptism?
Lets say there is a symbiotic relationship with micro-organisms, they have to be there for a reason, then the whole notion of a sterile environment is very stressful on the vital force and in itself could trigger someone's susceptibility into developing a disease state.
So please read § 11 again along with the long foot note where Hahnemann explains how the dynamic influence (the morbific agents) works along with his explanation of 'infection'.
Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com

http://www.streetcollege.co.uk
Or another easier way is to ask - can you have radishes without the radish seeds?
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hennie Duits
Sent: 21 November 2010 03:20
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Aph 81 - Organon 6

An experiment might be like this:
Some patient (maybe better: some organism) is isolated in a

‘sterile’ environment, and he/she/it is kept ‘sterile’ there
by all possible means.
However, most patients/its need some food and drink from
time to time.
So, just as a challenge, such food and drinks are prepared
by a row of patients, certain to be suffering from chicken
pox, mumps, rabies, tetanus, etc.
And before bringing such food and drinks into the sterile
environment, these get sterilised by all known means.
What would be likely to happen?
size=1 width="100%" noshade color="#a0a0a0" align=center>

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Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:00 am
by Joy Lucas
I think it is best to stay clear of metaphors, they muddy the waters, especially if you are still saying that the seeds are the morbific agents and that they are required because they CAUSE the radish, i.e. the disease.

You do not need the seeds as disease can be grafted. So isn't it better to stick with the disease metaphor.

Underlying miasms can be, in this way acquired, through grafting and in generations, when the mirco-organisms that are associated with syphilis are no longer present - or are you suggesting that anyone showing sx of the syph diathesis will, under lab tests, show to have those same mirco-organisms present?

It is important to understand CAUSATION - Hahnemann wrote about Fundamental cause; Exciting cause; Maintaining cause.

The underlying miasm has to be aroused - NOT by the micro-organism but by one of the above causes. Are you saying then that anyone with the syph diathesis has the micro-organism as a maintaining cause.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.streetcollege.co.uk