Minutus

I have a patient who has an "undiagnosed" bowel condition (since childhood), the nearest description of which, doctors have told her, is CMUSE (cryptogenic multifocal ulcerous stenosing enteritis).

However, she has given me permission to ask on any forum if anyone has experience of treating someone with homeopathy who is about to take immunosuppressants to reduce the level of steriods she has to take. (From an article about same: " immunosuppressants are often used in combination with corticosteroids as corticosteroid-sparing agents in an effort to reduce the dose of corticosteroids and minimize side effects associated with high dose corticosteroids. " *)

My question is centred around her express wish to continue homeopathic treatment with me whilst taking them, as she was "definitely noticing results" and "I would like to give homeopathy more time" but my own feeling is that taking one with the other is counter-intuitive ? And risky (for us both). However, I am open to suggestions and thoughts - or hopefully, experience of others - to help me advise her in this potentially tricky situation.

Regards, Barbara
*Read more at Suite101: Immunosuppressant Drugs: The Effects of Slowing Down the Immune System http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.com/a ... z0dcYTEWC2

Hello Barbara
Sorry to say I see these `bowel' conditions all too often. Many have been treated with steroids for way too many years. I've never heard of them working (other than very temporary relief). Then when they finally decide 12 to 16 years of pain, discomfort, multiple drugs, and no results is not good enough, the doctors start adding these immunosuppresents from the cancer drug arsenal. Again, I've never seen those work either. Usually, they come to see me after all that damage, depressed that they will never be well again, suffering the side effects of the drugs, still wanting to try something else. What has consistently worked is a blend of naturopathic and homeopathic approach. Usually removing the aggravating triggers (very often wheat, dairy, etc.) and calming the system (diet, herbs, first aid homeopathy, massage, yoga, etc.), then support (nutrition, probiotics, supplementation, herbs such as milk thistle for the liver, tissue salts, etc.) will clear the way. Once calm, the meds can be reduced or eliminated (by the prescribing physician). At that point I find homeopathy to work so well, the individuals recover in a matter of weeks or months. Usually within about 6 months, they are able to resume `normal' diets, simply knowing if they feel uncomfortable or stressed out, to reduce or avoid certain triggers for a while.
Homeopathic treatment during heavy meds is a double edge sword. You can certainly give `first aid' symptom relief and make them far more comfortable. I question if you can get down to the root causes when the body is damaged and continues to take doses of damaging chemicals every day. The problem that I see is that a comfortable patient might believe the meds are giving relief and stay on them too long, and give the doctor the sense that the meds are working and should be used more and more.
Hope you can help her through this.

Donna
D C Rona, PhD, ND, DHM
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "d_barbara_hamilton" wrote:

Hello Donna - good to hear from you.

Your advice as usual is very welcome, and I just have a few further questions to put to you re clarification of what you mean, so I will take it off-list and hope you have the time to reply further.

Many thanks.

Best wishes, Barbara

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "d_rona2000" wrote:

In class we were told that certain immunosuppressants can be particularly damaging--and I'm blanking out on the name of the one we were specifically warned about (but would know it if I saw it). Were told that some, e.g. that one, can so damage the immune system that after some time on it, the patient can become virtually impossible to treat homeopathically, as they system becomes too weakened to respond appropriately to remedies. Anyone heard of this?
Shannon

Barbara,
I haven't had experience as a homeopath in treating people who are taking immunosuppressant drugs to reduce their dependence on steroids. However, I run a support organization for folks with an immunologically-mediated kidney disease, and when I started this many years ago, steroids were the drug of choice for this disease (not that they actually cured it). Today, they're resorting to ever more powerful chemotherapeutic drugs -- and they're still not curing it!
No immunosuppressant will cure this patient's disorder. It will only interfere with homeopathic treatment.
Peace,
Dale

Dear Dale,

Thanks for your wise words; unfortunately so true. The doctors in this case are, I think, giving them to her to ease the inflammation in the bowel CAUSED by the steriods, as well as to reduce the steriodal dosage - which is just plain sad. I hope to get my patient to understand the cycle, but she is new to homeopathy and still in that cautious phase even though she has felt the benefits too.

I will soldier on with the valued advice I have received and hope that we find a solution of sorts.

Many thanks.
Warmly, Barbara

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Moss" wrote:

Hi Barbara,

Another thing that I'm told can reduce ill effects from steroids, is to give ACTH / corticotrophin in low potency, repeated as appropriate. Here's a post that explains (edited for clarity). This seems to help normalize the patient's ability to respond to well chosen remedies, which can be damaged by steroid use, due to its suppressive effect on the adrenals!

------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:20:18 +0800
From: "Dr.Suriya Osman" >
... I had one case of psoriasis, 10 years duration with joint involvement and he had been on lots of steroids creams and oral over the 10 years. Looking back at his record I found he'd only had a dandruff 10 years before. I was at that time not using Hom and he had had all kinds of shampoos and ended up with psoariasi[...]. When I saw him, all I thought to do was to counter some of the effects of the steroids because his joints were getting weak from the steroids so, I wanted to give him corticoids [...] but inadvertently [sent] corticotrophin [aka ACTH] which is a pituitary gland thing rather than corticoid which is adrenal. Imagine my suprise when he came in a month later with no more joint pain, no more psoriasis and guess what, the dandruff and fungal stuff came back.
This time I just let it be and it too disappeared. So, my point is that the steroid you take MAY be sustaining the itch by suppressing the ACTH from the pituitary gland and by taking the ACTH, it may reverse this and the itch can thus disappear.
Some more about sarcodes..they are products of the body, a lot can be learned of how to use them by just looking them up in the physio lectures. (snip) Sarcodes cannot cure any case but can be used to facilitate and then it usually unblocks the case. The most common I use are thyroidinum, and the 2 pituitaries, anterior and post. and the cortico! Also oophorinum and lately I discovered a use for orchitine .
I have been using them alongside other remedies because I know its physiological effects and they do not stop or disturb other remedy actions. The cortico [ACTH] I used for this patient was 10c daily for about 2 weeks. He only needed some other plant remedy and I think I gave one nosode, he has not had much problems since, and he’d been in a bad motor accident, had to have a skin graft from his thigh and its amazing that he did not get any kind of itch at the graft area which is actually very common. He had a lot of calendula and arnica too of course.
The other two cases given were also remarkable in that the effects of the steroid was reversed and the reason the steroid was given also removed..see what I mean? In another case she was asthmatic and then given steroids developed acne. Cortico removed the acne, AND reduced the asthma but she did need pulsatilla and some other rems I cannot remember but the cotico alone had REDUCED her asthma, ie the reason the steroid had been given.
regards Suriya

Highly confusing and probably not homeopathy - if a 'sarcode cannot sure but can facilitate, blah blah' - if it can unblock a case (so called) then it is the simillimum of the time, required to do that job, based on sx similarity. Also a danger to suggest using sarcodes routinely as intercurrents, which is what this is doing.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

Hello,

(to those who still know my name after a long time of absence),

just a short information:
if you get the information from e.g. LIGA-congresses, you'll hear about
corticosteroids.
In 1988, a study was published about multiple sclerosis.

33 patients were treated according to classical homeopathy (remedies
like Rhod, Tub, Nux, Sulph, Nat-m, Phos and others were individually
chosen). Prednisone was still given if necessary.

ATHOS OTHONOS, G. PAPACONSTANTINOY, S. DIAMANTIDIS came to the
following conclusions:
************************************
) As shown by 16PF test homoeopathic treatment showed significant
improvement of 16 psychological parameters in patients with Multiple
Sclerosis.
2) Homoeopathic treatment reduces significantly the number of
exacerbations of Multiple Sclerosis. However it must be taken in
consideration that the course of MS is highly varied and unpredictable
and in most patients remittent, and that spontaneous remissions make any
treatment difficult to evaluate.
3) Homoeopathic treatment reduces significantly the amount of
corticosteroids used during exacerbations. This however may be due not
only to the decrease of exacerbations and improvement of physical
complaints but also to significant improvement of the psychological
parameters. This improvement increases self-confidence of the patient
and results to a decrease of demand for treatment with corticosteroids
since the patient fears of side-effects and is often aware of the
dubious efficacy of corticosteroids in M.S.
4) The simultaneous use of corticosteroids and homoeopathic medicines
did not result to ineffectiveness of the homoeopathic medicines used.
.....
************************************

So: good homoeopathy can just work inspite.

[BTW: I've reorganized my website. Still always new info about research,
H1N1 and others].

Best,

Gaby

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gaby Rottler
Germany
rottler@curantur.de
http://www.curantur.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks Gaby, this is good to know!
I wonder whether similar conclusion is seen with patients who *have been on long-term steroid use*--as opposed to the short-term, as-needed doses referred to here? (Still, tho, that is very good news.)

Welcome back!
Shannon