Minutus

This needed to be shared, both Beth's sentiments and those posted by Paula. This list has seen much "flaming" in the last six months, so much so that people no longer contribute or even belong any longer. I noticed Rosemary no longer contributes, could it be that all of the nasty mud slinging , name calling got to be too much. I have debated for months whether to continue. Joy, I want to Thank You-I have learned so much from you regarding MM. Everyone who has shared how to use water potencies, especially Sheri, Thank You as well. But as you can see from the second email, all of the horrible emails are not teaching, they are driving people away in disgust a lot of the time and we have no way of knowing if those driven away are potential clients or potential students or even current students who will not continue their education. Consider re reading your responses and if you wouldn't send it to your mother don't post it here for all to see, it looks soo bad .

Sue
Begin forwarded message:
________________________________

Hi Sue

If we look at the second email, taking it in parts:
"I have nothing against homeopathy except that it is by far the most
confusing of any alternatives I've checked into."
Yes, it is confusing, as it is a complicated system of medicine. The
problem arises when people want a quick fix. Yes, you might get a quick
fix, if you understand the system, how to apply it and how to find the
correct remedy, but you can't as a complete novice do that unless you
drop lucky.
"There are so many Don'ts involved"
There is a system of good practice that needs to be followed to get the
best results and to do no harm to the patient.
"there are so many practicing it that have no training."
Yes, definitely. And that is why well trained homeopaths become so
upset and speak their minds. Should they do otherwise? Should they sit
back and say fine?
"Even on lists where there are trained professionals, they
never seem to agree with each other"
The well trained homeopaths won't follow like sheep and agree with all
the junk that the poorly trained ones pour out. Thank the Lord that
they don't, as many have learnt what true homeopathy is by reading their
posts.
"I have pet and human books on homeopathy and quite a few remedies. I'm
afraid to try any of it without paying for assistance "
If she has Macleod's books they I sincerely hope that she doesn't follow
the instructions. If you have ever picked up one of those books you
will know what a joke they are. I remember only too well one little
duck that I was treating prior to coming to these lists and gaining
knowledge from the well trained homeopaths. I followed Macleod's
instructions and put that duck in an early grave. I now know how I
should have administered the remedy, and how when improvement started I
should have eased off dosing, or stopped altogether. I remember so
clearly the drastic improvement in symptoms and then the symptoms going
drastically worse when I continued to dry dose per the books
instructions. Just because it is a book on homeopathy doesn't mean it
is good.
"Someone might tell you to use Arnica but won't give you a dose or
frequency"

Well anyone trained in homeopathy knows about individualization and
knows that dose and frequency aren't set in stone. I would suggest
that you recommend Sheri's course to this person so that she understands
how homeopathy needs to be used. Recommend it to others as well. When
I used to participate in lists other than this one, I used to recommend
it and it gave people the basic understanding that they needed in order
to use homeopathy for acutes and to understand the difference between
chronic and acute.
"Then there's the two different types - Classical and
I can't remember the other one where different remedies are blended
together."

No, there is one type, and that is the message that well trained
homeopaths spend all their time trying to get across.
"At one point of desperation, I got referrals from a group of raw
feeders, many of whom are adamant that homeopathy is The Only Answer.
I checked them all and the consultation prices were from $150-$200
per pet. Some charge an extra $60 for each follow-up. I needed to
treat two dogs and there was no way I could afford that. I couldn't
even fill out the form that was required prior to making an
appointment. I had no history on either dog"
Well, having spent a fortune on veterinary care over the years I can
tell you that though homeopathy might appear dear in the short term, but
it is cheap in the long term. Take for instance one of my cats that had
an eosinophillic ulcer. The conventional vet said that the cat would be
on steroids for life - a middle aged cat so a hell of a lot of vets
bills. I declined the steroids and found a homeopathic vet. The
homeopathic vet gave a remedy that cleared it in six weeks. The cat had
one more remedy a couple of months after that and then needed no more
veterinary care until about 9 years later. Which is the cheaper?
People are trying to compare like with like and there is no comparison
between the two.

With regards to having no history on the dogs, well I have no history on
many of the animals as they are strays in the majority of cases, but
that doesn't mean that homeopathy can't be used and all this person
needs to do is explain that she has no history.

Kerry

I Hi Kerry,
I noticed that you only addressed the second email. That's fine, but it wasn't really the point. I have been a member of Minutus for a long time and things have never been as bad as they are now, as far as offensive and insulting language. Don't know how you can teach anyone when you are insulting them and don't know how you can represent homeopathy when the insults are as blatant as they have been. As much as we deplore allopathy, MD's tend to play "well" with one another despite different philosophies and ways of practice and if they get mad they do so privately with one another. It's called professional behavior and the public expects it of those people who call themselves professionals. I am not ranting nor am I judging anyone, the emails only pointed out the flaw in" teaching" in such a nasty way.

Sue

Hi Sue

I only addressed the second email as I was in a rush and thought that
others would also address issues brought up in the emails. Below you
said:

"Don't know how you can teach anyone when you are insulting them and
don't know how you can represent homeopathy when the insults are as
blatant as they have been."

Are you referring to me in particular, or people in general? If me,
then can you please point out where I have insulted people? I have seen
heated discussions on this list, discussions that become heated because
time and time again homeopaths are having to defend good practice.
Personally, I don't believe that we should keep it all hush-hush when it
comes to explaining the difference in the practices of true homeopaths
and those who just wish to cling to a title when not practicing the
modality. Myself, and many like me, would have no idea what true
homeopathy was but for people's willingness to speak out. I actually
find it really sad that people who stand up for good practice are
vilified. Yes, at times those people might become tetchy, but if you
have been on this list for many years then you will know how frequently
they have had to cover the same ground, with the same people, again and
again and again. Is it any wonder that they become tetchy?

If I can just refer you to the mission statement from the home page of
Minutus: "The aim of MINUTUS discussion group is to share useful
information on classical and Hahnemannian homeopathy."

The arguing can easily stop if those who don't wish to practice that way
start a new list and cease to try bringing every modality under the sun
under the banner of Homeopathy. People who then come to this list will
get a clear understanding of what homeopathy is about without any
arguments. Not only would this be good for the sensitive people, who
don't like heated discussions, but it would also be great for furthering
the practice and reputation of homeopathy.

Kerry

Kerry,

I was referring to people in general, not you specifically. And "heated" was not the original term used but flaming. BTW, the first email came from a classical homeopath, so she as well as others object to the "heated" discussions. Just thought you (in general) all would like to know how you are perceived by others. This was not aimed at specific folks, I don't have the time or frankly the patience, to start answering nasty emails. As for joining a new list, why ? I am a classical homeopath and like I said I have been on this list for many years and have learned much.
Sue

Hi Sue

As you and the person who wrote the first email are classical
homeopaths, then you understand the difference between good and bad
practice, the consumer doesn't, and they always seem to get forgotten.
The consumer has a right to know what actually constitutes homeopathy,
and they come to these lists to gain that understanding. Some consumers
might not like to hear these subjects debated, but many of them do, and
are grateful for such debates, in the same way that they are grateful
when people more knowledgeable about bad practice in allopathic medicine
highlight it.

I wasn't suggesting that you join a new list; I was suggesting that
those who wish to use this list to promote practices that aren't
homeopathy, join a new list and promote them there.

Kerry

I am a new homeopathy student and I have found the posts recently
regarding the water dosing and dry dosing really helpful. I have been
searching for a homeopathic school that I feel comfortable with and
finally found it through these discussions. My family and I are being
treated by a homeopath who does use the 5th and 6th organon water
dosing (mostly C potencies in water). We started out with a homeopath
who was using dry dosing and LM dosing and my children became very
aggravated (and then he disappeared without telling us where he was
going - very odd, in the middle of chronic treatment). My daughter
has special needs and some very deep seated mental and emotional
problems so I needed to find someone I felt very comfortable with and
who could adjust dosing for her sensitivities. Anyway, I was
interested in finding a school where I would learn the water dosing
method and have finally found it in Caduceus, in CA (my third school
I have tried). Becoming a student of homeopathy is like jumping into
an ocean of information and I think it helped me to hear the
different sides of the issue and to try to sort out for myself where
I would like to fit into the homeopathic spectrum. I am really too
new to all this to know whether being extremely strict about sticking
to classical homeopathy is the only way - it certainly seems to me to
be the way to begin. I believe you can't bend the rules until you
understand them deeply. When searching for a school, it was hard to
even know what questions to ask and reading the posts here really
helped me to clarify for myself what I was looking for and to keep
searching until I found it. I also took Sheri's acute homeopathy
class and that was a great introduction to the whole world of
homeopathy.

Sandy

Sandy, welcome and congratulations!
Please note that "strict" is most emphatically not what Sue, that letter writer, and others including myself have been objecting to on this list. Perhaps you are new enough to the list that you've missed the objectionable parts--I do hope that's the case, and so pleased that you've found the discussions helpful!

Again, welcome.
Shannon

May I second Kerry's motion? "Heated/Flaming" ? More people than not benefit from these discussions, so if the minority is offended or too sensitive then maybe a gentler list is the place for them. If it is so much mudslinging then don't read the posts.
And I beg to differ, this is a private to semi private list dedicated to the betterment of Classical Homeopathy. So this is an international professional forum in which differences are aired. And yes this happens in spades within the context of conventional medicine/MD's.

Rik
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Kerry" wrote:

Dear Rik
You are quite right to say that a lot of heated discussion takes place on other professional lists. You are also correct to say that people benefit from such discussions.
However, and I can say this as I have several times been on the receiving end of such comments and I have also been around this list long enough to see such comments levelled at others too, it is the contemptuous, insulting tone of the comments which is to be deplored, and the speed at which certain members of this list are/have been singled out for such attacks.
Yes - let's take issue all the time - agreed. But please remember that behind every email address there is a person, who is entitled to respect, not mud-slinging. Politely say "Well, I'm sorry - I will have to disagree with you because..." Then leave it at that.
Liz