Minutus

Hi Shannon.

Very useful. Some MM descriptions or rubrics are standard and in
other books. I am not sure I would buy it if I were not really
interested in doing physical confirmation tests.

Sometimes the physicals are there, but the patient is not yet at that
layer. It is something that is really basic.

Remember that case that I had months ago? Phos relieved her
insomnia, but it did not help with the panic attacks, obesity, knee
problem........ I tried Arg-nit. Nothing. Then finally Lac-e. She
got a fatigue aggravation and then everything started to happen. The
blood pressure is coming down, weight is coming off, no excess
anxiety...

She is really horsey. Wants to please the master by super achieving.
Excess respect for masters which made her into a national ping pong
champ and now as a coach she agonizes over the lack of progress in her
60-70 year old students (including me). The problem comes in her
vision when they do not follow the coach (the master). She is now the
master, so following is excessively important. This causes loads of
anxiety both when she is the student as she is in Karaoke and as the
ping pong coach.

She had a cataract operation which she messed up by trying to exercise
too early. Now after prolonged inflammation she is getting the Phos
sparks in her eyes. I suspect that if I give her Phos, they will go
down. I gave her Phos 6c not to interfere with the Lac-e 200c. It
does not seem to be working, but she is using it only once a day and I
don't think I can get her to use it more. Anyway, I suspect there is
a lot of Phos left but it is a more basic layer.

She fits the Phos physical profile detailed by DeGroote. He does not
have a little proved remedy like Lac-e. Even the testing worked. So
there is timing involved. That's why he has these tests and
questioning that have to do with timing. It is a lot of
understanding so I don't have much confidence with application, but I
think with this coming tutoring, I will get better land legs.

Blessings,
Ellen

So it sounds (?) like those indications go to something like the
"constitutional" level, but something else may be "on top". I would
love to know how these observations etc. would fit with prescribing by
Mangialavore, who aims for (and reportedly often achieves) a single
remedy to cover it all?

Are you getting tutoring specifically in his method?
Shannon

Hi Shannon,

No he is before Magaialavori so no relationship and it does not look
like he is aiming for a single dose. The approach is very Continental
European (Who knows what that means? Not me.) and basically
classical. His teacher is Dr. Albert Pladys from De Panne, Belgium.
He appears to have moved to the US and I don't know if he is alive and
working. Don't know how wide spread the method is. His bibliography
is standard Classical homeopathy plus books in French that I am not so
familiar with. The slightly unfamiliar aspect of his work comes from
being an acupuncturist and those French books. He also uses Weihe
intensively and has additional points.

I have been looking for more Kinethesiology info and I keep coming to
websites and addresses that are no longer functioning but there seems
to be a big organization.

The woman who will tutor me is a chiropractor. She specializes in a
method of what looks to me like tuning into the ether. She says
numbers that she looks up in a book sort of like the remedy makers and
asks questions doing something that feels like kinethesiology. I am
not learning that. I am hoping to just learn how to test the
individual muscles. This may be a dead end. I just have to try. She
is a great chiropractor and her tuning in method is also magic. Her
work is on the physical body; nothing at all psychological or
spiritual. I believe she knows something that can give me help with
DeGroote's method..

Currently, all kinds of help are coming to me without much seeking on
my part so I figure I should just follow the universe. I'll let you
know how it goes.

About the Lac-e case, yes I think the Phos level is close to
constitutional. But it also maybe that Lac-e is close to Phos. That
is they are related remedies. Phos is supposed to have a widow's
hump, shoulders that collapse forward. She has that. I wonder how
that would work out for a horse.

Blessings,
Ellen

Sorry, I didn't mean did *he* draw a relationship, only wondered
whether a "Mangialavori remedy" would affect the points and etc.
similarly to the (presumably "constitutional"-type) remedy arrived at
in this manner.
Besides Touch For Health, another I've seem fabulous results from is
called Clinical Kinesiology, per the method of Alan Beardall. It's a
dangerously generic name--and there is nothing the least generic about
the method! Uses hand positions and pressure points, meridians, etc.,
to do some really stunning diagnosis, as well as very sophisticated yet
simple, and effective treatment.

? What do you mean by "questions doing something that feels like
kinethesiology"? (Also what's kinethesiology--I only just realized you
were not writing "kinesiology"--?)
Sounds wonderful--may it go well!!

They've got a lot in common! I don't know lac-eq well, but did notice
that.
I did a remedy search for rubrics containing both remedies, and there
are quite a lot, e.g. a sampling from the first parts:
Mind; AMBITION; AMBITIOUS (p, 66, 5-30) (66)
Mind; ANGER; AILMENTS from, agg.; Mental and emotional consequences of
(m, 132, 1-14) (132)
Mind; ANGUISH; AILMENTS from, agg. (m, 104, 1-72) (104)
Mind; ANGUISH; AILMENTS from, agg.; Mental and emotional consequences
of (EXCITEMENT, EXCITABLE; AILMENTS from, agg.; Mental and emotional
consequences of)(m, 72, 0) (72)
Mind; ANTICIPATION; AILMENTS from, agg. (m, 189, 3-201) (189)
Mind; ANXIETY; RESPIRATION; Difficult, anxious, with (m, 117, 6-6) (117)
Mind; ANXIETY; CONSCIENCE, of (p, 145, 23-70) (145)
Mind; ANXIETY; FAMILY, about his (CARES, WORRIES, FULL OF; RELATIVES,
about)(p, 34, 0) (34)
Mind; ANXIETY; HEALTH, about (p, 124, 14-38) (124)
Mind; ANXIETY; OTHERS, for (p, 77, 3-5) (77)
Mind; AUDACITY (COURAGEOUS)(p, 68, 1-2) (68)
Mind; BITING (IDIOCY; BITE, desire to)(p, 112, 43-198) (112)
Mind; BUSINESS; AILMENTS from, agg. (m, 213, 4-102) (213)
Mind; BUSY (ACTIVITY)(p, 111, 14-81) (111)
Mind; CENSORIOUS, CRITICAL (CONSCIENTIOUS ABOUT TRIFLES)(p, 135, 12-29)
(135)
Mind; CHILDREN; COMPLAINTS in (GENERALITIES; CHILDREN, COMPLAINTS
IN)(m, 245, 0) (245)
Mind; COMPLAINING (DISCONTENTED)(p, 100, 44-78) (100)
Mind; CONCENTRATION; DIFFICULT (p, 463, 64-427) (463)
Mind; CONFIDENCE; WANT of self (p, 214, 19-56) (214)
Mind; CONFUSION OF MIND (CHAOTIC)(p, 556, 239-2061) (556)
Mind; CURSING, SWEARING, DESIRES (ABUSIVE, INSULTING)(p, 106, 29-101)
(106)
Mind; DARKNESS; AILMENTS from, agg. (MIRILLI'S THEMES; DARK)(m, 102, 0)
(102)
Mind; DELUSIONS, IMAGINATIONS; PURSUED, of being (p, 64, 16-73) (64)
Mind; DICTATORIAL (ANSWER, ANSWERING, ANSWERS; DICTATORIAL)(p, 69,
5-30) (69)
Mind; DISCONTENTED (COMPLAINING)(p, 255, 47-288) (255)
Mind; DISCOURAGED (CONFIDENCE; WANT of self)(p, 205, 56-152) (205)
Mind; DWELLS; EVENTS, on past disagreeable (p, 100, 12-31) (100)
Mind; EMBARRASSMENT (CONFIDENCE; WANT of self)(p, 25, 6-33) (25)
Mind; ENNUI, BOREDOM (DISGUST)(p, 114, 16-27) (114)
Mind; ESCAPE, DESIRE TO (APPROACHED, AVERSION OF BEING)(p, 130, 32-195)
(130)
Mind; ESCAPE, DESIRE TO; FAMILY and children, from her (ESTRANGED;
FAMILY, from her)(p, 12, 0) (12)
Mind; ESTRANGED (p, 74, 12-103) (74)
Mind; ESTRANGED; FAMILY, from her (APPROACHED, AVERSION OF BEING)(p,
34, 0) (34)
Mind; FEAR; CANCER, of (p, 48, 6-9) (48)
Mind; FEAR; DARK, of (p, 85, 2-2) (85)
Mind; FEAR; DISEASE, of (p, 138, 26-132) (138)
Mind; FEAR; HAPPEN; Something will (p, 161, 29-112) (161)
Mind; FEAR; INSANITY, of losing his reason (p, 121, 17-30) (121)
Mind; FORGETFULNESS (ABSENT-MINDEDNESS)(p, 356, 82-360) (356)
Mind; FRIGHT, FEAR AGG. (EXCITEMENT, EXCITABLE; AILMENTS from, agg.)(m,
293, 13-193) (293)
Mind; HORRIBLE THINGS, SAD STORIES AFFECT PROFOUNDLY, AGG. (ANGUISH;
HORRIBLE things, after hearing)(m, 160, 2-131) (160)
Mind; HURRY, HASTE (ACTIVITY)(p, 229, 63-367) (229)
Mind; IMPULSIVE (ABRUPT)(p, 90, 13-30) (90)
Mind; INDIFFERENCE, APATHY (DULLNESS)(p, 470, 204-1284) (470)
Mind; INDIGNATION (ANGER)(p, 126, 19-135) (126)
Mind; INDUSTRIOUS, MANIA FOR WORK (ACTIVITY)(p, 187, 18-67) (187)
Mind; INJUSTICE, CANNOT SUPPORT (ACCUSATIONS, UNJUST, AGG.)(p, 59,
3-22) (59)
Mind; LOVE; CHILDREN, for (MIRILLI'S THEMES; CHILD)(p, 11, 1-1) (11)
etc., etc.

Interestingly when I run the computer analysis on these rubrics, the
first two remedies suggested are nux-v and ars! On basis of straight
totality (numerical), lac-eq is quite a good way down the line--#20 or
so?? Even tho it's of course in all the rubrics, they're not highly
graded, presumably since it's not so well tested clinically?

Anyway, yeah, it's easy to see why phos might be given first, when
lac-eq is needed!

Okay, how to differentiate... (I'd love thoughts!)
As an animal remedy, I'd think (maybe) a Lac-eq case (or at least the
person's experience, which might or might not come across in their
"case-giving") would have more emphasis on animal themes of sex,
survival, dominance/submission?? (What else? I'm not so good with
kingdoms...)

A phos case, as a mineral... Well, phos is NOT organized the way
minerals tend to be, but (I think) tends more toward disorganized,
chaotic, spacey (possibly, not necessarily)?

Now I tried looking for rubrics that contain Lac-eq but *not* Phos, and
find:
Anger while driving a car (why would that be??)
Anxiety, lemonade amel (huh?)
from secrets revealed
expected of him, when anything is
when a time is set
Concentration difficult on waking (hm, I thought phos was there, but
don't see it)
Delusions,
fail, everything will
hard, everything is (presumably this means "difficult"?)
hardship, life is
hindered (hm, a theme is emerging here!)
house, is surrounded
insulted, s/he is (and that's a 2!)
sinking, s/he is
trapped, s/he is
Discords agg, relatives, friends, between
Discouraged, helping her family
Discouraged, sexually (ah, there's some "sex" anyway)
Dreams:
apologizing
beaten, being
beautiful, Earth is
buildings, falling apart
cats; cats, vicious; children, mutilated; children precocious and
arrogant; coition observed; competition; groups; working well together;
rejected by those he tries to help... lots more interesting ones not
shared with phos.

Well, interesting comparison--thanks for that "inspiration"!

Shannon

Dear Shannon,

I love your comparative analysis.

Half of the symptoms in common between Phos and this case fit the case.

The negative thinking of Phos are amazingly lacking in my Lac-e case
Delusions,

The positive attitude is so obvious and striking. (Ferrum-m has this
too. I wonder what the animal complement to Ferr-m is. I have been
treated with Ferr-m and it does not seem to exactly fit. How would I
search.) As long as the group is thriving and she is supported by the
coach/teacher, she is fine. Her panic attack and high blood pressure
resulted from attacks within the group and a singing teacher who did
not support her when she was attacked by a mentally ill individual.
Do you suppose these extreme negativity symptoms of Phos also only
occur when for example attacked? Phos is also very positive.

She spent tons of money (not rich) becoming a pro golfer, bowler and
now karaoke singer. She take private lessons with a pro until she is
at the pro level and then quits. She is not interested in competing
because other people become jealous and give her a hard time when she
wins all the time because she approaches every endeavor with the
analytic mind that she learned from her ping pong coach. I give her
shiatsu every week and draw out all this from her. So interesting.

I think that the chaotic type symptoms in the element Phos are to be
expected. Isn't the idea that there is a thematic pendulum swing? So
extremely well organized until stress becomes overwhelming. The the
opposite takes place. So the mineral characterization (Sankaran)
still holds.

Mangialavori is much better at finding the cross overs. So Zincum
Phosphoricum as a non-competitive gentle snake (p. 51). I love his
comparisons.

The competition with others is the animal aspect. Also the feeling of
being attacked. Does phos have this?

I am using Radar 10. I have only the opportunity to include symptoms
that both remedies have in common. I wonder if you are using Radar
and can still do the remedies that the two do not have in common.
That is so interesting. I would like to be able to do that.

The competitiveness of Lac-e in this case is so interesting. She is
totally and exclusively concerned with winning for the team that she
belongs to. So if she is teaching, she is also competing for the
group. There is a strong disdain from individual competition. On the
surface she looks extremely ambitious and competitive, but the
orientation is totally group. She is Japanese so maybe this is a
culturally modified version of a Lac-e. But it makes sense from the
herd animal horse point of view.

She can't drink lemonade, carbonated drinks, and most forms of bottled
water. Needs to drink tap water. Can't drink alcohol which for a
socialite is very interesting.

"Clinical Kinesiology, per the method of Alan Beardall is in the
bibliography. Really involved detailed work." Of course
chiropracters are interested in knowing exactly which muscle is weak.
But if you get good at this, I think you will be able to spot a
postural remedy type or at least a family. I am very visual and 3D so
this is a good direction (also dislexic and can't spell, thank god for
spell checkers.)

My tutor for the prospective session specializes in asking questions
as the primary tool of her technique so I am sure she has put a lot of
thought into this. I have been told to hold off on questioning until
absolutely necessary, but have never had an indepth discussion on how
to question as a positive aspect of the interview process. So this is
very interesting to me.

What exactly was the connection that you were drawing with Mangialavori?

Is there a really good technique for finding the complementary remedy
when the polycrest does not work as in this case? Kingdoms and miasms
seem like pretty good options. I have been trying to put together
lists of comparative remedies, but that seems somewhat hopeless. Many
are useful in particular cases the way Vermeulen has comparisions laid
out in the Concordant MM. Spme people on the list are so down on
Sankaran and Sholten. I have never gotten a grip on Sholten but both
Sankaran and Magialavori have good discussions of kingdoms. I would
think Sholten could be helpful in the same way. Sankaran's miasms are
also sometimes helpful. Miasms and comparative grouping of remedies
is so complex, it seems too much to expect to have a "guru" of such
subject. For a beginner, if one teacher has a idea or a way of
analysis that helps to put a little order in the general rather
chaotic structure of such topics, I for one am grateful. I am not
going to therefore expect those researchers to supply me with the
magic bullet. The topics simply are not so easy. We are not working
on a science based on the simple laws of physics etc. So we can not
expect simple magic in our forms of analysis. I have never gone to
any of these what I imagine to be wonderful seminars costing lots of
money so it is hard for me to be bitter. I am very happy if I get any
help from books.
Blessings,
Ellen
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:15 AM, Shannon & Bob
Nelson wrote: