Minutus

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/
short term memory loss, it was only about a couple of posts ago where you were accusing me of prescribing for named diseases
not the same thing
I do want to read them but here you go again telling me I don't - and you scout people for taking discussions awry, that's getting rather warped now
well it is the main part of mine - let her post the proving notes/data
lots of humans have diseased states that show few signs then they die so we find a single substance for that do we and give it to everyone (is the logic here)
not a pre judgement as you keep scarring me with - a conclusion
you are kidding me - why are you even interested in homeopathy then, perhaps you are not

I'm actually not going to read the rest of your reply, I want to go out so I await the proving notes

Joy

Well you can start with the Boericke version here:
http://homeoint.org/books/boericmm/c/chin.htm

I have not and will not use a remedy that has unknown action on an
ill individual.
There is zero reason to use a new and unproven remedy with unknown
ability to heal anything, on a dying individual to try to save them -
it makes no sense.

WHat I did and do that is NEW, is to combine two areas of knowledge
(all prior known facts) and use them both together. I used what is
known about FIP from the scientific world regarding the pathology of
FIP and the data about the FIP viruses (there are several different
ones) about which parts of the body are damages and how, and
combined that with what is known from the homeopathy world (per the
Organon, repertories and MMs etc), to select a remedy that would not
only handle the sparse current symptoms but which would also handle
the next set of symptoms due to start based on blood tests showing
pathology - and in an order to be expected as a result of the cat's
innate constitutional type.

For example a Lyc constitutional type will have liver damage before
blood vessel damage. A Colch constitutional type will have brain
damage before liver damage. The ORDER of damage (everything is
attacked in FIP) is partly predictable via the cat's innate
constitutional type and partly by blood tests and partly by known
action of the virus involved in terms of what immune system cytokines
are involved at each stage.
The disease can kill in 2 days after diagnosis so the need to know
what organs to help immediately is the way I found to recover a case
fast enough at that stage of illness, to have any success.
The remedy chosen to do the job is of course chosen according to the
usual homeopathy principles, repertorizing and MM and rubric lists of
remedies. (I usually use Radar 9 vix Synthesis repertory, sometimes
also OA Julian repertory which is one that is not included in Radar).
I recommend the best matched remedy. The *client * gets to buy the
remedy, usually zt the local HF store, but if it is less common it is
ordered and i suggest an interim approach till the ordered remedy
arrives.
I work by email so there is no time for me to mail a remedy to
anyone.

How you managed to turn that into me using unproven remedies I do not
know.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

What has Chin got to do with it I thought you abandoned that rx for the FIP nosode in preference, which you encouraged people to use. look forward to a link to that proving.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

Contrary to your invented assertions, China is the remedy I used in
the first FIP case in which I was successful.
You should not think so hard. You should read what I actually do
instead please.

Nobody can cure FIP with the "FIP/FeLV/FIV 30C" prevention remedy.
It which is not a nosode but a remedy that has been shown to be
prophylactic for the three immune compromise illnesses in cats. It is
made from vaccine material and is nothing to do with sick cats. It is
used for prophylaxis.

As in any illness, cats with terminal FIP illness, need a properly
chosen matched remedy that suits THEIR case.
I do not believe any other approach can restore health, especially
not in a serious illness with a nonfunctional immune system, as in
FIP. Only a matched homeopathic remedy has any chance at all.

China was used in the first sucessful case and maybe was used a
handful of subsequent cases (out of about 500, EACh individually
matched to the best remedy) - and multiple other remedies were used
in other cases - ONE per case - according to what was the best
matched remedy for that case.
No.
I encourage the use of FIP/FeLV/FIV 30C as a homeoprophylaxis remedy.
I have never suggested that it can restore health from FIP, just the
contrary.

There is no proving in cats for the simple reason cat's do not speak
or write.
However the clinical data record for prevention of FIP, FeLV and FIV
is unbroken since its use starting 1996, including when used in
shelter catteries where the FIP rate in kittens re-homed, was up to
50% before use of this remedy. (Shelters seldom see the FIP at the
shelter as it is diagnosed only in late stage up to 3 or 4 months
after it starts, but that is where the illness is triggered and so
that is the best place to use the prevention remedy.
I sent the China link already
If you need links to ALL the remedies I used in several hundred FIP
cases, you might as well read the entire MM:-)
It is such a variable disease in terms of symptoms that there is no
possibility of a "genus epidemicus" or anything similar.
Every case is very different and needs different handling. To give an
example, one may present with grand mal seizures and retinal
detatchment, falling about and with emaciation, ravenous appetite and
restlessness - while another will be lethargic, jaundiced, nauseous
with no appetite and no thirst, and another will have a bloated
abdomen, be short of breath, and want to hide from everyone.
No two cases are alike, and each needs a matching remedy.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

So no provings then, no sx similarity, no individualisation, not Hahnemannian then. Not a homeopathic rx either. Settles it for me.

Longish email added below

If I use the 1996 remedy in 30C, made from a vaccine for all four
upper respiratory infections common in cats, and which includes one
that has gastric symptoms in addition to upper respiratory ones - I
find that it is extreme;y effective (based on statistics in my own
use of it since 1996) both for prophylaxis and for actually using it
during an outbreak of any of the four illnesses to rest0re heath OR
when used for any other similar illness - such as the killer one that
broke out in late 1997 dubbed "Plane Flu" as it originated in an
airport holding kennel, and was spread by cats staying there between
flights.
This remedy (which I call URI 30C) is one I make sure I always
have handy - and my clients all report similar effectiveness when
they use it on their cats or on cats at shelters they manage etc. It
will even get rid of long-term chronic "snuffles" in cats over time,
such as the herpes which lives in the brain between outbreaks. In
twelve years and countless cats, there has been one failure in
prophylaxis, for one cat who got the most severe illness of the four
and succumbed to the illness. (The rest of the cattery was all fine.)
It was a specially virulent strain in CA a few years back which
killed all cats having conventional vaccination.

However, the Bordetella bronchiseptica remedy is nowhere near so
useful. I find that 30C is good for prophylaxis, but needs a "boost"
frequently to maintain effectiveness - somewhere between every 3
months in populations where the disease has occurred or is high risk
(like shelters etc) - to about every 6 months in healthy populations.
A long break in its use undoes the prophylaxis.
In a Bordetella outbreak, 30C remedy is useless or nearly useless.
However the same remedy in 200C is helpfuil along with a properly
matched remedy. Based on at least 20 cases in an outbreak for
example, a matched remedy got about 75% success, and when the Bord-b
200C became available and was added in it changed the stats to almost
100% survival, including newborns from affected queens.
Someone else who tried the Bord-b-200C remedy alone in may cats
got poorer results, including some deaths. The combination of this
with matched remedy seems effective.
Comparing the URI-30C and the Bord-b 30C and 200C then for example -
it is very clear that the former - a mixed and "similar" remedy is
far more powerful to build health than the Bord-b one, made from a
specific single organism.
Most animal prophylaxis remedies are not true nosodes, but remedies
made from the vaccine for the illness. So they potentize not only the
organism but also any adjuvants etc. (It has become popular to call
them nosodes.)
I do think an identical can be helpful in prophylaxis - mkore so than
doing nothing by far - but I just have found in MY expereince that
mixtures that pertain to illnesses that all have similar sym[toms -
seem to work better.
I use two such mixtures that have a great track record:
URI 30C AS ABOVE
FIP/FeLV/FIV 30C - which is made from a mix of three immune -
compromise disease substances. All three diseases affect the same
general aspects of the body. This seems somehow MORE effective than
any of the three singly.

So I do think single remedies are and can be prophylactic - and I use
them as such - but not as well as mixtures of illnesses with similar
symptoms. The single ones fail more often.
Yes a single or a similar-mix remedy will prevent the same AND any
similar illness. If anything it is better at preventing a similar
illness, than a same one.

For example in the cat flu called Plane Flu which had NOT been
included in the URI 30C remedy - there was complete effectiveness in
prophylaxis using URi 30C, where without it death ensued in all cases
within 3 months from a form of viral pneumonia affecting the entire
lung system. (It was isolated as a new virus by Onderstepoort
University in SA with the help of my vet who collected cultures from
affected imported cats in the SA cat fancy, including one I imported.
My other cats did not "catch" it thanks to my URI 30C use. In other
importing catteries there were significant deaths till URI 30C was
implemented, and the virus died out.)
This is key.
Influenza is a virus which changes significantly from one season to
the next - so that a flu prophylaxis from a prior year will become
less identical and more similar as time goes by. This indeed is why I
use a 1996 URI remedy in cats. People using the current ones have
indeed reported they are less effective.

I have a remedy made in 1996 at the request of myself and other cat
breeders who agreed to purchase it if made- by the homeopathic
pharmacist at A White in Cape Town. We supplied the 4-in-1 vaccine
drops from which to make it. I have used it ever since, and sent it
to many others who have also used it with success.
So I did not select a specific year - just got around to arranging
one in that year, and find it effective
The experiment has happened - inadvertently - several cat folks using
more recent versions have written to me to ask for some of mine as
the one they got seems not to work well
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

Hi Joy,

Ouch, this is getting so circular...
No, I didn't. You were asking me for (if I understood right) "named
diseases" that are not covered by remedies currently well known. I
named several that I thought perhaps *might* not be, and asked why you
asked, because "since when do you prescribe on named diseases?" Then
we both mentioned reasons why it is sometimes necessary to *understand*
certain named diseases to treat them effectively, but I assume(d) that
neither of us treats in a this-for-that way.

'Nuff said about that. No I did not accuse you of prescribing for
named diseases. Um, I think what we both meant is that I did not
accuse you of doing so in a routinist fashion.
From your remark below, it appears that by "them" you mean provings.
I did not mean provings; what I meant was Irene's past detailed
write-ups of FIP and her method with it.
Yep. Wasn't working for FIP

Joy, what on earth are you about??
By "to do the job" I meant the job we had been TALKING about, i.e.
curing FIP cats.

I give up.

Joy, I love your posts where you are *offering* your *knowledge*. I do
not enjoy your posts where you are attacking others. So I guess I'll
just try again to stop reading the attack posts.

Best wishes,
Shannon

I am not attacking others just asking for qualification of Hahnemannian homeopathy where it isn't being practiced but furtively being argued that it is. You have a way with words that you seem to think relinquishes you from what you are accusing others of. There is little homeopathy left in these posts.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

No, Joy.
My work uses proved and known remedies for ALL remedies used for
illness, individualisation is used for ALL cases of any kind that I
help with illness, and the remedy is chosen by repertorizing, use of
MM , rubrics and clinical case experience - there are zero exceptions.
... so indeed Hahnemannian.

In fact Homeopathy of this kind is at the core of ALL my cases that
need help to regain health.
So I'll thank you to stop suggesting otherwise.

Hahnemann's work had to do with curing the sick (see APh 1, 2 etc).
You referred to my work in cats that are sick with FIP.
We are not discussing anything else.

Anything else is not Hanmeannian.
If you want to discuss something else, feel free to start a new thread.
This one is ended.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

It has been clearly stated that you use un proven potentised substances (the ones mentioned FIP; Bord-b; combo FIP, FeLV, FIV; URI and a human 4 in 1 'flu), it has been clearly read that these are encouraged because it has been written at length about them and all their great work they do, there is support for them and as people want a quick fix in homeopathy this could be a real problem (i.e. people using them without a bog standard knowledge of homeopathy and what this entails) - it has been clearly read that to further this encouragement Pharmacies should sell these un proven pootentised substances to the general public with no responsibility attached because that would be 'policing' and we don't want that do we.

It is clear there are no provings because, reason given, animals do not speak - no logical sense in that because how can you treat animals adequately at all if they don't 'speak'. If it is more than ok to give these un proven substances, with no sx matching, no Hahnemannian application, with no data to assess what remedy reaction may occur once administered (could be extremely harmful who is to know) then I can't see why you cannot do provings with animals if you ask them nicely. Critical observation would be vital, lots of animal communicators around and for those who care for such experimentation should be an interesting line of work.

There was the human 'flu potentised substance though - I take it that was proven - could we have a link to that please as there is a great deal of interest in rx for 'flu.

Following on from these Tautopathy and Sarcode syndromes it also seems clear that (following your logic on the use of these substances) that all we need to do, when one gets ill is to potentise the disease product and all will be well - because if it works so well for one species then it follows on there will be success for others. We don't need Hahnemann or homeopathy or provings we just need to potentise each person's disease and then we wouldn't need pharmacies either would we 'cos your disease will be yours and someone else's will be theirs.

It doesn't bother me whether you use proven rx or not, it has only bothered me that you use and promote un proven potentised substances with a refusal to do provings. Following in Hahnemann's methods all rx should be proved - there are many that still need to be - but what also gets to me is that you are now clearly stating you don't use these substances (zero exceptions, wow) and a whole lot of personal stuff is going on that folk do not want to read (well some might) - so how does one work with these sort of contradictions? Very strange indeed.

All I have been trying to do is seek out the homeopathy (or lack of it).

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

Not by me it has not been stated:-)
Nothing in my work on treating individuals supports this opinion.
Please desist from spreading rumors about how I "treat" sick animals
in this inappropriate way.

Case work requires a matched homeopathic remedy to have any chance at
all of success, and in my work, that is what they get.
Here is a write-up on my FIP case work using homeopathy.
I'm sure readers can form their own opinion from that:
http://www.hpathy.com/veterinary/Villie ... nfectious-
peritonitis.asp

Namaste,
Irene

PS to Joy: You are confusing homeoprophylaxis with case work. It is
not comparable and uses different techniques.
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."