Minutus

This is not about cultural norms or cool/not cool - its about
homeopathic philosophy...... as homeopaths why would we make an
exception for recreational drugs when we would not make the same
exception for any other 'medicinal substance' in our materia medica?

I have had this discussion over and endlessly with people about
cannabis - and have had people give the same response as David -
somehow it's not cool to think that pot is anything other than
harmless and on occasion enlightening.

Surely as homeopaths it comes down to simple homeopathic philosophy -
which you either subscribe to or not:

1. Cannabis is a medicinal substance - therefore capable of having
an effect on the organism.

2. Different people will be differently susceptible to its effects.

3. Read the provings of Cannabis I to see what effects may be
produced. Plenty of mental and emotional Sx.

So it's not a laughing matter when someone susceptible suffers the
effects of smoking pot. I have treated plenty of people in London
who were regular smokers and as always in homeopathy it's about
individualizing the case and prescribing accordingly. It's also
about finding out why the patient HAS to smoke every single day and
can't get through the day without it - an addiction surely at least
in the mental/emotional sense of the word?

I recently watched the doc (based on Supersize me) where a stand up
comic and regular pot smoker goes without for 30 days then smokes all
day every day for the next 30 days to see what the effects would be
(a ridiculously simplistic experiment obviously but I guess they
thought it made good entertainment) What was interesting was - I
watched it with a very pro -pot group and they all agreed that while
the comic had more fun when HE was stoned - he was actually much
funnier for the rest of us when he was not stoned!!.

Carol

Carol Boyce MCH, CCH, RSHom(NA)

Hi Carol,

You seem to be confusing things a little, with reference to 'medicinal substance.'
Generally, in homeopathy, that would refer to the gross material from which our medicine is derived.
This does not magically impart some "medicin-ality" to the gross substance.
Medical marijuana advocates will argue "yes, obviously - medicine."
But in terms of homeopathy ? No, not.
By potentization, it becomes a homeopathic medicine;
by evidence of hundreds of thousands of marijuana users,
it has no statistically relevant dramatically medicinal effects.

Habitual use ?
addiction is addiction, regardless of substance (also behavioural addictions.)

Marijuana misses out on some of the typical substance addiction markers;
there is no physical dependency;
no physical "withdrawal" and no notable mental withdrawal symptoms.
I should say that one may have a marijuana habit;
many argue against its viability as an "addictive" substance,
were it not for the fact that there may be, in some who habitually use marijuana
to extremes, some "tolerance" -where it takes more of the drug to produce the desired effect..
I could make the case that it is absolutely not addictive ... still..

On the whole, I believe it fails to stand up to the definition of an addictive substance.

Also, and more importantly, with respect to your allusion to social norms and
"what is cool or not..."

Homeopathy has some in-built moralism, and some super-imposed;
I sense that "devil weed" marijuana raises the ire of some of that extra-moralism,
some of which is based in fallacies spread by various forms of social-control fanatics,
including those fanatics who prefer that society have "officially approved" inebriant
which is more easily subject to taxation, and which does not so often lead to
members of the social herd chafing at their collar'd existence.

Alcohol, a poison, a very insidiously addictive one,
which provides relatively dependable sedation is the approved "cultural norm."
If I were choosing which of these two to use on my private herd of human slaves,
it'd be alcohol, hand down. A good tool for social control.
Since alcohol does not readily grow on large hardy & weed-like bushes which flourish anywhere, I am assured that my captive audience will look to me for their supply.

Those who would exercise moralism & other social control mechanisms,
tend to rigidity .. reality is black & white .. moreover, reality is
"whatever we tell you it is" -imposed top-down, from ivory tower to television;
a herd must be led carefully; none must stray else control be endangered =;-)

Marijuana may, as an entheogen, be a tiny window from within controlled-society's stark prison-like cement walls .. from which to look out onto a universe of infinite possibilities..
It may, as an illegal and demonized substance ... simply be a natural attractant for those disenchanted by social herdsmanship.
I believe you have a firm grasp on the "party line"

Some study here
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer
will give you the basis for a fully informed understanding.
a teaser: In 1972, then-president Richard Nixon commissioned

the "National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse"
near the beginning of their lengthy official report...

I -- marihuana and the problem of marihuana
PERCEIVED THREATS

The threat which marihuana use is thought to present to the dominant social order is a major undercurrent of the marihuana problem. Use of the drug is linked with idleness, lack of motivation, hedonism and sexual promiscuity. Many see the drug as fostering a counterculture which conflicts with basic moral precepts as well as with the operating functions of our society. The "dropping out" or rejection of the established value system is viewed with alarm. Marihuana becomes more than a drug; it becomes a symbol of the rejection of cherished values.

SO-- you see... it actually *IS* all about what's "cool" and what's not (and that's official
warm wishes,
david 510.776.5914 fax: 510.336.6671
www.holistiq.com
www.DavidHartley.com
I.T. support: www.cafegratitude.com
co-founder: www.GratefulMindandBody.com
web developer: www.iamResourceful.com

Dave, You sure are a fun read. I agree.
Ellen

?? Glaucoma; pain relief and appetite enhancement in cancer patients;
anti-depressant and calming effects; traditional herbal cure for
hepatitis... The fact that a substance can be "abused" certainly
doesn't mean that it has no uses! And... Hahnemann considered
lettuce to be a medicinal herb, so...

Ha ha - David if you had any idea of who I am or what I have been up to in the 25 years I've been a homeopath you'd know how funny your lecture about social control is - believe me - I was one of the ones lucky enough to be born 'awake' - I've never been part of the social herd - have never towed the party line even when it's unpopular not to - you might say activism is my middle name However......

au contraire I think it is you who had not read my posting - altho I was - and am way busy and prob should not post unless I have the time to make sure I express myself properly - nonetheless I feel I must do a brief response.....

Couple of things from your post - and I def don't have time to get to it all... I have no moral issues with pot - alcohol and tobacco cause far more damage and meyhem - however I don't subscribe to the idea that pot is harmless for everyone either - a look at the provings shows it has the capacity to disturb the vital force in those susceptible.
I find it amusing that of all the substances on earth some how pot is exempt from anything negative.

re addiction - agreed does not have a detectable physical addiction - but I would suggest some of the patients I have seen had far more than a habit as you say - they are addicted in the sense that they cannot cope without it - cannot sleep without it - cannot suppress their rage without it etc etc. No that may not mean a literal definition of addiction, but imho those people at that time were mentally/emotionally 'addicted' and were unable to give it up without a huge withdrawal reaction.

re your explanation of medical marijuana - I was using the 'medicinal substance' in the HOMEOPATHIC sense as per Hahnemann - in its crude form it has the capacity to effect the organism (why else would people use it ) Same with tobacco - its a medicinal substance - potentization can enhance force - in some apparently inert substances like Lycopodium, it can bring forth that hidden essence - and in poisons it can allow them to be used safely and more efficaciously - but the substances are still medicinal substances non the less - in fact he makes the point that the more powerful the changes the substance can bring about the potentially more powerful the homeopathic medicine becomes after potentization. A homeopathic medicine does not as I understand it have to be potentized - but that's another debate entirely that I'm sure they've had on this board already.

Anyway - thanks for all info - have no time today to answer more - got to get back to the frontline trying to save the world!

Carol

But some of the so called pain relief issues associated are not that exactly but a mood swinger, to put you on another plane to distract from the pain - this is somewhat different? not sure really. Lettuce is a calminative substance, has an ancient use in birth control, calms the passions ) supposed to be good for headaches. for what it is worth.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

My understanding has been that people using pot medicinally (e.g. for
pain or etc.) do not feel "stoned" from it; apparently that's also the
case with other narcotics used for pain control--at least so I was
told, and seemed true in my very limited experience. But I'm not
certain...

http://www.vithoulkas.com/content/view/ ... 0/lang,en/
Visit www.vithoulkas.com

We are sending you in audio from a lecture of Prof. Vithoulkas: “Cannabis Indica” .
Above URL is on Cannabis Indica, Homeo MM

If this post is not relevant or you don't like it Please ignore.
======================================

Carol Boyce wrote:

Yes indeed - thanks for sending it - it is similar to what I found in my practice in susceptible people - but it's not 'cool' to say so

Carol

Carol Boyce MCH, CCH, RSHom(NA)
Potential of homeopathy to reverse autism - documentary in production http://www.savingalostgeneration.com