Minutus

joy,
welcome back, i so love your remedy descriptions--so simple and clearly written.
regarding your commentary on nat mur, you say
"Again, on top of that there is a feeling of insecurity as though something will be stolen from them, taken
away (same as losing the trust and faith) and hence you get the 'searching for thieves' state that is
mentioned in the MM's".
is this related to the fear of being kidnapped or stolen? i have come across 2 children who expressed this
fear. the first was a boy, age 9-10 whose mother had died after abandonning and abusing the children for years.
the second is a young girl who voiced this fear when she was about 8-9 yrs old.
the girl was removed from her mother by the courts 2x by the age of 3. she was in foster care about 2 yrs and then taken in by a grandparent
who now has legal custody. she lives in a fantasy world and still holds onto visions of her mother getting it
together so they can be together. suffice it to say the mother is a piece of work and encourages this fantasy.
the girl has major difficulties living in the present. she resists the teachings that people give her for fear of ????
betraying her fantasy of being with her mother or making her mother angry if she lets her life move in different
directions.
as i recall, the boy had been left alone for days at a time by the mother. there were boyfirends and drigs in that
family picture. i seem to recall issues of no food being provided, or clean clothers, etc. the mother died
from drug use--can't recall exactly how (this case was taken quite a few yrs ago. the boy responded to nat mur
as i recall until a situation at school basically antidoted the remedy. the family did not stay in touch with me much
after that.
tanya

Dear Tanya, I seem to be in the habit of quoting Didier Grandgeorge these days

"Let the sun shine on the sea (the mother), and the result is salt (the child). The father is the person who separates mother and child, brining language to the latter (language not needed in the bonded mother/child relationship). Equipped with the word the child emerges, leaving the mother behind, able now to communicate with another. Nat mur children have a problem with the father. Either his presence has been too pronounced, leading to a bonded child/father relationship, or, to the contrary, he has been physically or emotionally absent.

Nat mur subjects are immured within themselves, superbly reserved - Latin murus = wall. They are late in learning to talk and then speak little, telling nothing about what is going on in their lives."

So can this be turned around and substitute the mother for the father, who is to say? Certainly a child needing Nat mur will hide everything from you, will hide behind that wall and create a 'new' life for themselves - children can do this easier than adults I think.

The wall, the murus, is a heavy object to see beyond and after but the idea of something being stolen from them, or being stolen themselves is summed up quite well in the keynote that Nat mur has regarding anxiety of salvation - 'absorbed, buried in thought, as to what would become of him' - evolving out of being betrayed so then they build protective structures around themselves (fantasy world + the rubric 'fear of losing control') and if you can also see guilt in these children (they learn to blame themselves for their situation) then Nat mur would definitely be a consideration in my opinion, especially if physical sx fit.

Interestingly Ignatia (an acute of Nat mur and shares many sx), has a 'fear of being away from home' = being kidnapped, taken away, stolen?).

But to be sure, in a case where these sort of emotional states can represent so many remedies you would look towards the physical sx if there are any and use those to be more certain. These would include all food cravings, skin sx such as herpetic eruptions or oily skin, catarrhal states, headaches, constipation, tendencies towards certain acutes, anything really that sums up Nat mur and then you'd be able to prescribe more confidently.

With the risk of being too general these situations are all about abandonment of some kind or another and 2 other groups of rx that come to mind immediately would be the snakes (Lachesis has a lot of issues about being stolen or being under the control of another and thus develops very fanciful lifestyles to compensate) and the milks, but I think 'betrayal' and notions of being 'stolen' match up well with Nat mur.

Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
homeopathystudy@yahoogroups.com

thank you joy.
so if i am understanding correctly, it is the fear of loss of control
and lack of trust that makes the child feel as if he/she is being kidnapped or stolen.
they are trying to protect what little they have of themselves and fear that piece of identity
and comfort being taken from them. so the boy i dealt with may have been afraid of losing himself
to some overarching power that would control him. and the girl is/was afraid of
having her fantasy of going back to her mother taken from her: she hangs onto
that as a means of feeling connected to something she considers real in her life.
i havent given the girl a remedy yet although she did get lachesis a couple of yrs ago. it
did nothing for her.
thanks for the insight.
tanya

And Joy, I see sometimes that Nat Mur is an uncared or unattended or Untreated or even a long suffering ignatia.

I think synthesis has it: After effects of grief- ign
After effects of prolonged Grief, Nat mur

Venkat

Most definitely, and children who need Nat mur will often want Ignatia at crucial and emotional times in their lives, when the chronic expresses an acute episode, Ignatia will be invaluable in soothing their woes.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
homeopathystudy@yahoogroups.com

And carc can look very, very similar to nat-m.
I've also wondered about aq-mar (sea water), which I read is also very
similar, but presumably not interchangeable. Does anyone have
experience with this difference?

Mind; GRIEF; PROLONGED (MIRILLI'S THEMES; GRIEF)(p, 5, 0) (5) :
aq-mar., carc., nat-m., ph-ac., phos.

Hi Shannon,

Magialavorie talks about the comparison with Nat-m and Aq-m (111 Sea
remedies). I remember the feeling that Aq-m being followed or watched
was one differential. He discusses Aq-m in the context of sea
remedies with all the complex halogen influences. The patient who I
was thinking about at the time actually needed Mag-mur, but the
stomach symptoms did not come out until she took the Aq-m.

Nat-m deeply understood because people are not seeing him deeply.
Aqu-m different from all so everyone has to look at him, There is
something wrong with them so people are spying on them. More
inhibited and ashamed than Nat-m. So sports, sex food (anything that
pleases the physical body) is difficult. There is a Sepia
contradiction of wills. Feeling that they want to please themselves
but are not allowed. Difficult to act in an instinctual way. These
feelings are stronger in the decompensated state. (they
over-compensate for felt weakness and feel worse)
Nat-m wants attention. Aqu-m feels uncomfortable with the attention.
They want to hide themselves. Aqu-m lack of self confidence more
related to Nat-brom and Nat-i. Less likely than Nat-m to switch
partners.

No music or grudge element with Aqu-m. Not so basically injured as Nat-m.

Both desire salt., weight gain/loss issues. Assimilation issues.
Sea sides affects them. Misanthropy for both although in Radar 10 not
mentioned for Aqu-m.

Proving by P. Sankaran.

Best,
Ellen

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:23 AM, Shannon & Bob Nelson
wrote: