Understanding??
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 9:56 am
Dear Nancy
I have a problem in the fact that I cannot get to grips with some of the
ideas that have been expresses:
You have stated that "in matriarchal societies abortion is not necessary."
You say one of the reasons for abortion is that we live in patriarchal
society.
I understand that feminists want to achieve a matriarchal society once
again.
But feminists however, vehemently support the mother's right to abortion.
Although this process means that they completely ignore the baby's right to
LIFE).
Is it right to fight a patriarchal society by killing an unborn and innocent
child (almost 50% of whom are female!!) to make a political point and doings
it in name of the woman (mother's) right?
It sound a bit like "fighting for peace."
So why are the feminists so pro abortion?
In my view a woman's right over her body should be exercised BEFORE
conception, not afterwards (and this is why I have excluded Rape from the
equation and also medical complications where continued pregnancy would
endanger the mother's life)..
This does not mean that I as a homoeopath I cannot understand the
justification that there may have been at least in her
mind. What I am trying to achieve is to broaden this understanding, one
point of which may that the patient has made a series of mistakes and also
has made poor logical analysis of the situation etc, or has had poor
education/counselling and has ended up in making a decision which is not
without immediate and long-term consequences for herself.
And lastly I don't know how you can make such a strong statement about
children being unwanted - They may not be wanted by their biological
parents, but there is a queue of childless couples (and also couples with
children) who would like to adopt.
As demonstrate by couples who have risked a great deal (even prison) in
trying to secure a child from abroad!
May I request that you kindly attend to the questions raised above and reply
to them in order. Hopefully I (and perhaps others) will learn something from
them.
What I am trying to achieve out of these discussions is not to score points,
but to learn more about some difficult issues that confronts our patients.
Making political/sexist issues out of the process is not, in my view, for
this site. I want to stick to homoeopathy and to improve the dynamic of the
patient/homoeopath interaction.
I wish us all GOOD HEALING
Soroush
=======
From: "Nancy Siciliana"
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 1:10 PM
The sad thing is that you believe I've made your point...
Abortion--when it is SOLELY the woman's choice to bear or not bear a child,
for her own reasons--absolutely values life over things.
It values HER life over the idea that she, and the life that she could bear,
are chattel which belong to some man.
It values each individual life brought into the world, in that every child
born is a child who is wanted.
Perhaps if I altered your words a little bit:
eg: "Abortion (as we know it to take place in our own society) arises as a
result of (the Patriarchal mindset) valuing things over people, and violence
over cooperation".
I'd be in some form of agreement with you.
Feminists do not support abortion because men want it (to eradicate
inconvenient responsibilities), but because women must have the right to
determine for themselves their own reproductive lives. That is quite a
different thing from what patriarchy aims to achieve.
Those who are against a woman's right to choose (mostly men) are interested
in denying that right simply because they wish to deny a woman this right to
have complete say over how she and her body will be used.
The desire to "own" and control another is the most profoundly violent act
in patriarchy, as well as its basis of existence. In my opinion, this far
outweighs any violence in nature, as well as any violence which results from
a woman deciding not to bear a child.
Nancy
=====
From: Phosphor
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 2:40 AM
Nancy said this..
Ancient Rome, just like ancient Greece, was far from matriarchal.
Infanticide was (and continues to be) practiced widely in patriarchal
societies; no evidence of infanticide has been found to exist in the
matriarchal societies.
and this...
This is why feminists are so keen to educate people to the existence of
these matriarchal societies.
I hardly surprising that the feminists contradict themselves whenever they
open their mouths on this issue. They support abortion, the most violent
"patriarchal" activity imaginable. If it wasn't tragic it would be
laughable.
Andrew
I have a problem in the fact that I cannot get to grips with some of the
ideas that have been expresses:
You have stated that "in matriarchal societies abortion is not necessary."
You say one of the reasons for abortion is that we live in patriarchal
society.
I understand that feminists want to achieve a matriarchal society once
again.
But feminists however, vehemently support the mother's right to abortion.
Although this process means that they completely ignore the baby's right to
LIFE).
Is it right to fight a patriarchal society by killing an unborn and innocent
child (almost 50% of whom are female!!) to make a political point and doings
it in name of the woman (mother's) right?
It sound a bit like "fighting for peace."
So why are the feminists so pro abortion?
In my view a woman's right over her body should be exercised BEFORE
conception, not afterwards (and this is why I have excluded Rape from the
equation and also medical complications where continued pregnancy would
endanger the mother's life)..
This does not mean that I as a homoeopath I cannot understand the
justification that there may have been at least in her
mind. What I am trying to achieve is to broaden this understanding, one
point of which may that the patient has made a series of mistakes and also
has made poor logical analysis of the situation etc, or has had poor
education/counselling and has ended up in making a decision which is not
without immediate and long-term consequences for herself.
And lastly I don't know how you can make such a strong statement about
children being unwanted - They may not be wanted by their biological
parents, but there is a queue of childless couples (and also couples with
children) who would like to adopt.
As demonstrate by couples who have risked a great deal (even prison) in
trying to secure a child from abroad!
May I request that you kindly attend to the questions raised above and reply
to them in order. Hopefully I (and perhaps others) will learn something from
them.
What I am trying to achieve out of these discussions is not to score points,
but to learn more about some difficult issues that confronts our patients.
Making political/sexist issues out of the process is not, in my view, for
this site. I want to stick to homoeopathy and to improve the dynamic of the
patient/homoeopath interaction.
I wish us all GOOD HEALING
Soroush
=======
From: "Nancy Siciliana"
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 1:10 PM
The sad thing is that you believe I've made your point...
Abortion--when it is SOLELY the woman's choice to bear or not bear a child,
for her own reasons--absolutely values life over things.
It values HER life over the idea that she, and the life that she could bear,
are chattel which belong to some man.
It values each individual life brought into the world, in that every child
born is a child who is wanted.
Perhaps if I altered your words a little bit:
eg: "Abortion (as we know it to take place in our own society) arises as a
result of (the Patriarchal mindset) valuing things over people, and violence
over cooperation".
I'd be in some form of agreement with you.
Feminists do not support abortion because men want it (to eradicate
inconvenient responsibilities), but because women must have the right to
determine for themselves their own reproductive lives. That is quite a
different thing from what patriarchy aims to achieve.
Those who are against a woman's right to choose (mostly men) are interested
in denying that right simply because they wish to deny a woman this right to
have complete say over how she and her body will be used.
The desire to "own" and control another is the most profoundly violent act
in patriarchy, as well as its basis of existence. In my opinion, this far
outweighs any violence in nature, as well as any violence which results from
a woman deciding not to bear a child.
Nancy
=====
From: Phosphor
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 2:40 AM
Nancy said this..
Ancient Rome, just like ancient Greece, was far from matriarchal.
Infanticide was (and continues to be) practiced widely in patriarchal
societies; no evidence of infanticide has been found to exist in the
matriarchal societies.
and this...
This is why feminists are so keen to educate people to the existence of
these matriarchal societies.
I hardly surprising that the feminists contradict themselves whenever they
open their mouths on this issue. They support abortion, the most violent
"patriarchal" activity imaginable. If it wasn't tragic it would be
laughable.
Andrew