Minutus

My comment here is not about the use of machines, but a response to the comment about Indians not being able to successfully treat Western women due to cultural 'prejudice.' In the past I have had discussions about this very point. Homeopaths that have responded usually say if you take the case, cultural differences wont interfere. My concern is how can cultural entrapments not interfere. I include the cultures of class, race and sex as well. So much of case taking is based on understanding the words and contexts of the patient. How do others feel and deal with this.

tanya

dear tanya and all,i will write more later and i never saw the initial
statement you are referring to , tanya. but i strongly agree with you. as
a woman i would not go to a male practitioner in the first place, no matter
what culture. the gender difference is culture difference enough. a while
ago i listed on this site many of the atrocities done to women all over the
world. true, some women have internalized the oppression and sadly are still
wearing burkas, no matter what culture we live in. yesterday in the boston
globe i read of a WOMAN in nigeria who was sentenced to being half buried
in a hole and then being stoned to death by the people throwing fist sized
rocks at her until she was dead. the sentence was for adultery. the man was
not sentenced for anything. they are trying to appeal the sentence, but that
is beside the point. i remember sankaran saying their were no cultural
differences at a seminar of his i attended. in india where many women go to
live with their mothers-in-law and that is an accepted norm, how can indian
men (or women for that matter)see what women in the usa would think/feel
about this, just to name a more obvious one. and who knows what the women
in india are really thinking/feeling about this custom/norm/practise. in
india they still burn brides, as i have written before. we do not do this
in the usa. i do not hold the usa up to a pedestal,we have enough
atrocities here of our own. but to say there are not cultural differences
according to class, gender, sexual orientation, color, religion, to name a
few of the more obvious, - and some of the ones you tanya have already named
- is to me to be living in denial and to be very unaware. it is hard
enough to understand any other human being, never mind someone who is so
different from our own upbringing. there have been studies showing that
even in the womb boys and girls babies are treated differently. tanya, you
once wrote to me that those of us who are aware of these differences must
teach them to others, although you said it much more eloquently and a little
differently. i expect some will stone me - or want to - for these
viewpoints, but they come from teaching for many years (from pre school to
graduate college level)from working in the healing field for over twenty
years, certainly from being a feminist, and from working as a peace and
justice activist for over 20 years also and from watching and observing
human behavior. one of the questions that comes to my mind is why do some so
deny these differences? what do they gain from so doing?
another question that arises is why would anyone choose to go to a
practitioner of any kind who is so different from them? years ago in the usa
when more medical doctors were women as they were accepted in droves to
medical schools finally (as a result of the second wave of feminists) and
started graduating, their practices were filled in days. now that is a
question, would i go to a woman allopathic doctor or a man homeopath? thank
god, i don't have to make that choice. one large questions looms for me and
has since i entered the field of homeopathy: in my experience most of the
teachers and big people in the field are men and most of the students are
women. why? we MUST change this, the sooner the better. i almost did not
study homeopathy because i did not want to learn from only/mostly men. that
still remains for me and is a very big struggle. at the holidays i spent
some time with a young friend who has been at dartmouth college in the usa.
he is a young man of color. we BOTH had the same issues with our schools -
he for race, me for gender. it was amazing. to be continued, Sheila Parks,
Ed.D.
_________________________________________________________________
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hi all,
just in case someone thinks that we have brides for breakfast......

we *do not* (can't be sure of lunch & dinner tho' )

it *used* to happen in a very backward and underdeveloped area. it has
been banned by law since many, many years. ( a notorious one happened some
years back, probably that's the one sheila is referring to)
for such a horrible place, we seem to be doing pretty well in this regard

about 75% of the patients coming to the college i went to, are women
in my practice more than 50% are women
they don't seem to be terribly unhappy.....

regards,
Arun

Dear Sheila,

I thought you would like to know that I have a Female Homeopath as a teacher... and at my next class there will be 3 Female Homeopaths instructing.

However, as a young person, I just don't understand this continued prejudice against men. As a woman, I am grateful that I am free to pursue whatever education or profession I wish. But my preference is to learn from whomever is the best teacher, man or woman! And, if men are the majority of teachers available, wouldn't it in fact further women to become educated by men, rather than remaining uneducated or poorly educated?

BTW, I too have met Sankaran and his lovely, well educated wife and I think it is a great misnomer to pick on India as being more backward or culturally strange than any other country. India is a huge country with many cultural features. Besides, every country has backward regions, classes and traditions, including the USA.... and I could mention a few States with negative "reputations". More specifically, how many American men can you think of that despite getting married still defer to their mother's opinions? Or what about men who allow their wives to be belittled and criticized by their mothers? We must be honest and admit that boorish behaviour is not isolated to any individual country, culture, or gender.

Additionally, current research shows that boys and girls do behave differently! Have you read, "As Nature Made Him"... the twin boy who not knowing his true gender was raised as a girl?? He hated dolls, he hated dresses, he tried to pee standing up.... despite the circumcism accident. Other books like "Boys and Girls Learn Differently" which also describes how boys and girls are different, demonstrates how they literally learn differently in school, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with prejudice.

And, what if Hahnemann was alive today? Would you reject learning from him because he was a man? Is it not time to move on from this issue and enjoy the freedom of being a woman in this modern world?

I do understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate your work and experiences. But when is the "war" over? I don't wish to "stone you" but I really think things are different now. At least my experience has been different and I think that is something to be happy about.

Wishing you all the best,
Natasha
Homeopathic Student

Dear Natasha,

I dont think the issue is 'male bashing' as you imply. The issue is how do we deal with the limitations of our experiences. I have trained primarily with male teachers, but the experience has a male bias. And while there is much that I learned, there was always something a bit different when I trained with women. My main concern is how cultural, gender, race and class differences are factored into case taking. I recall a male instructor who asked the women in the class for some guidance in case taking with women. He was able to understand that certain types of emotions were not within his ken. This is not to say he shouldnt be practicing with women, but he recognized that he needed to learn something about women's sensitivities. And he often needed some input from women to help with some of his cases. From my own experience, I find that people always judge me by their experiences which means they totally miss the essence of the major events in my life. For example, men cannot seem to understand the level of intensity and independence that I work out of and women cant seem to understand the intensity that works in me. As a consequence, I become a very difficult 'case' for them. Their prejudices and biases work all over the place.

The main problem is how people factor their own 'stuff' into their work. And my concern is how we, as homeopaths, factor our limitations into our work. I have spoke to this point any number of times in classes and at workshops and with individuals. It is frustrating and disappointing to see the negative response that is given. This speaks of a resistence to accept criticism which would enlarge our abilities. It implies that we self-limit ourselves as human beings and practitioners.

tanya

Men are from Mars and Women from Venus (Perhaps)!

But in terms of attitude and behaviour no woman is 100% 'female' and no man
is 100% 'male'. I think we are each a point on the male-female spectrum.

There are emotions that are better understood by females than males and vice
versa. UK Homoeopaths are almost 80% female. So what should male patients
do? Are female homs more successful than male Homs? (Do females read male
patients like a book with no pages? )) ) Do we all have problems with
just female patients? No!!!

I know (as a male) that I been well treated homoeopathically by female homs
and I have managed to treat females well. However, do we all cure all of
cases 100% - Even within our own genders?

The answers is NO and probably it has many reasons but I think if I ever
have a problem understanding emotions expressed by a female patient (or
indeed a male patient) I shall ask my colleagues and supervisor (we should
ALL have a supervisor). That is why they are there and that is why I value
minutus so much.

Good healing
Soroush

you are lucky. where do you live? although, i must add that not all women
are feminists and if not sensitive to gender issues , for me, i am not so
interested in them necessarily as teachers. i am really looking for a good
feminist teacher in homeopathy.

it is not continued prejudice against men. it is reporting what it is
happening. as a young woman you are reaping some of the benefits of
feminism that some of us , men included, have worked very hard for for
years, and continue to do so. if people are not sensitized to sexism or
misogyny, they often do not see it or experience it or think it is not
there. yes, i agree, i study homeopathy with men because i so want to learn
it and that is what is available to me in this less than perfect world.

i did not want to specifically pick on india, and tried not to. i mentioned
nigeria and one of its recentatrocities and say the usa is not free from any
of this. let me be more specific about the usa: i have never met a women
who does not have an eating disorder (this becoming true of men too) and our
young women are dying of anorexia in staggering numbers. in the usa many
women run around half naked, the flip side of the burka problem. the
feminization of poverty. just to name a few here in the usa. i took a five
day seminar with divya and loved her. yes, i agree that "boorish behavior is
not isolated to any individual, country, culture or gender."

i have not read the books you mention, but my question is who wrote them?
they sound like anti-feminist books to me. how do you know they have
"nothing to do with prejudice"? for these two i could give you lists that
would say the opposite, as is true with any conflict. as far as boys and
girls learning differently in school, many of us think that is because they
are treated differently in school and out - consciously or unconsciously,
intentionally or not - and also that boys and girls come with different
expectations of success in school because of the different ways they are
taught before they come to school. have you read carol gilligan or reviving
opehlia: saving the selves of adolescent girls by mary pipher? i would
highly recommend doing so. or germaine greer? reading some feminist
literature on this topic would be helpful,i think. there is lots besides
what i briefly mention here. are you near a feminist book store?

if hahnemann were alive today, i would study with him, but i would have
great trouble. no, i will never move on from this issue. i truly do enjoy
the "freedom of being a woman in this modern world" but this is only because
of the work feminists have done in the past and continue to do. would you
want me to walk away from the issue of abortion rights, to name the one that
screams at me? you perhaps cannot remembery when abortions were illegal in
the usa. i do and i too well remember waiting until women i loved came home
from their illegal abortions, and sitting and wondering if they would indeed
come home or if they would die. i defended the abortion clinics here in the
usa with my body for many years. of all the political work i have ever
done, and i have done plenty, it was the most satisfying. women and men
with tears streaming down their faces thanking us for being there and
knowing that they would not have been able to get in to have an abortion if
we had not been there defending the clinics.

again, dear natasha, i agree that things are different now, but not
different enough. you know that women still do not receive as much pay as
men for the same job? that women still are in the low-paying service jobs,
underpaid and overworked and this is mostly women of color? that most top
executives everywhere are men? but i am not a feminist so that i can walk in
the halls of power. that is not what i want to do with my life. but, if
women held more positions of power, i think there would be more attention
paid to "women's issues" like child care, schools, NO MORE WAR, etc. i know
there is margaret thatcher and golda meir, to name two past prominent women
in power who were hawks, but i am talking generally here. in israel and
palestine there are many women in the peace groups, they far outnumber the
men. and they do not have a seat at the table. shulamit aloni is a major
exception and she has a seat on the israeli side as does hannan ashrawi on
the palestinian side. the burkas in afghanistan are such an example of
misogyny that one does not have to look far for work that needs to be done.
the world at large was more concerned with the destruction of the buddhist
statues than with the destruction of real, live women. how many women are
there now in the new afghanistan coalition government? in the usa in mixed
groups in school, who talks more and who gets called on more, the men or the
women? welll, natasha, i hope we continue this dialogue. it is not a war
we feminists have with men, it is rather a war against women that is
world-wide and i, in my lifetime, am committed and dedicated to trying to
stop it in any and every way i can. i wish you would come join us, still
enjoying how far we have come and how far we yet have to go. best, sheila
_________________________________________________________________
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So as to return this conversation back to Homoeopathy, What rubric would you
use for a patient who wishes to abort?

Rgds
Soroush

From: "Natasha"
Reply-To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
To:
Subject: Re: [Minutus] the unprejudiced observer
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 02:08:25 -0800
dear natasha, thanks for responding. below pieces of your writing, some
comments from me. i have put quotes around your original comments so as to
distinguish them from my responses.
"Dear Sheila,"

"I thought you would like to know that I have a Female Homeopath as a
teacher... and at my next class there will be 3 Female Homeopaths
instructing."
you are lucky. where do you live? although, i must add that not all women
are feminists and if not sensitive to gender issues , for me, i am not so
interested in them necessarily as teachers. i am really looking for a good
feminist teacher in homeopathy.

"However, as a young person, I just don't understand this continued
prejudice against men. As a woman, I am grateful that I am free to pursue
whatever education or profession I wish. But my preference is to learn from
whomever is the best teacher, man or woman! And, if men are the majority
of teachers available, wouldn't it in fact further women to become educated
by men, rather than remaining uneducated or poorly educated? "
it is not continued prejudice against men. it is reporting what it is
happening. as a young woman you are reaping some of the benefits of
feminism that some of us , men included, have worked very hard for for
years, and continue to do so. if people are not sensitized to sexism or
misogyny, they often do not see it or experience it or think it is not
there. yes, i agree, i study homeopathy with men because i so want to learn
it and that is what is available to me in this less than perfect world.

"BTW, I too have met Sankaran and his lovely, well educated wife and I think
it is a great misnomer to pick on India as being more backward or culturally
strange than any other country. India is a huge country with many cultural
features. Besides, every country has backward regions, classes and
traditions, including the USA.... and I could mention a few States with
negative "rep utations". More specifically, how many American men can you
think of that despite getting married still defer to their mother's
opinions? Or what about men who allow their wives to be belittled and
criticized by their mothers? We must be honest and admit that boorish
behaviour is not isolated to any individual country, culture, or gender."
i did not want to specifically pick on india, and tried not to. i mentioned
nigeria and one of its recentatrocities and say the usa is not free from any
of this. let me be more specific about the usa: i have never met a women
who does not have an eating disorder (this becoming true of men too) and our
young women are dying of anorexia in staggering numbers. in the usa many
women run around half naked, the flip side of the burka problem. the
feminization of poverty. just to name a few here in the usa. i took a five
day seminar with divya and loved her. yes, i agree that "boorish behavior is
not isolated to any individual, country, culture or gender."

"Additionally, current research shows that boys and girls do behave
differently! Have you read, "As Nature Made Him"... the twin boy who not
knowing his true gender was raised as a girl?? He hated dolls, he hated
dresses, he tried to pee standing up.... despite the circumcism accident.
Other books like "Boys and Girls Learn Differently" which also describes how
boys and girls are different, demonstrates how they literally learn
differently in school, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with
prejudice."
i have not read the books you mention, but my question is who wrote them?
they sound like anti-feminist books to me. how do you know they have
"nothing to do with prejudice"? for these two i could give you lists that
would say the opposite, as is true with any conflict. as far as boys and
girls learning differently in school, many of us think that is because they
are treated differently in school and out - consciously or unconsciously,
intentionally or not - and also that boys and girls come with different
expectations of success in school because of the different ways they are
taught before they come to school. have you read carol gilligan or reviving
opehlia: saving the selves of adolescent girls by mary pipher? i would
highly recommend doing so. or germaine greer? reading some feminist
literature on this topic would be helpful,i think. there is lots besides
what i briefly mention here. are you near a feminist book store?

"And, what if Hahnemann was alive today? Would you reject learning from him
because he was a man? Is it not time to move on from this issue and enjoy
the freedom of being a woman in this modern world?"
if hahnemann were alive today, i would study with him, but i would have
great trouble. no, i will never move on from this issue. i truly do enjoy
the "freedom of being a woman in this modern world" but this is only because
of the work feminists have done in the past and continue to do. would you
want me to walk away from the issue of abortion rights, to name the one that
screams at me? you perhaps cannot remembery when abortions were illegal in
the usa. i do and i too well remember waiting until women i loved came home
from their illegal abortions, and sitting and wondering if they would indeed
come home or if they would die. i defended the abortion clinics here in the
usa with my body for many years. of all the political work i have ever
done, and i have done plenty, it was the most satisfying. women and men
with tears streaming down their faces thanking us for being there and
knowing that they would not have been able to get in to have an abortion if
we had not been there defending the clinics.

"I do understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate your work and
experiences. But when is the "war" over? I don't wish to "stone you" but I
really think things are different now. At least my experience has been
different and I think that is something to be happy about. "
again, dear natasha, i agree that things are different now, but not
different enough. you know that women still do not receive as much pay as
men for the same job? that women still are in the low-paying service jobs,
underpaid and overworked and this is mostly women of color? that most top
executives everywhere are men? but i am not a feminist so that i can walk in
the halls of power. that is not what i want to do with my life. but, if
women held more positions of power, i think there would be more attention
paid to "women's issues" like child care, schools, NO MORE WAR, etc. i know
there is margaret thatcher and golda meir, to name two past prominent women
in power who were hawks, but i am talking generally here. in israel and
palestine there are many women in the peace groups, they far outnumber the
men. and they do not have a seat at the table. shulamit aloni is a major
exception and she has a seat on the israeli side as does hannan ashrawi on
the palestinian side. the burkas in afghanistan are such an example of
misogyny that one does not have to look far for work that needs to be done.
the world at large was more concerned with the destruction of the buddhist
statues than with the destruction of real, live women. how many women are
there now in the new afghanistan coalition government? in the usa in mixed
groups in school, who talks more and who gets called on more, the men or the
women? welll, natasha, i hope we continue this dialogue. it is not a war
we feminists have with men, it is rather a war against women that is
world-wide and i, in my lifetime, am committed and dedicated to trying to
stop it in any and every way i can. i wish you would come join us, still
enjoying how far we have come and how far we yet have to go. best, sheila

Wishing you all the best,
Natasha
Homeopathic Student

maybe the wish for abortion is not pathological and no rubric is needed.

tanya