Minutus

Had a patient in today who I had given a follow up appointment of 2 months because she appeared to be doing so well.In my Analysis from December I had written:-

She wasn't feeling tired anymore, her asthmatic breathing was nearly gone, the presenting complaint of eczema on her hands had gone etc.
Today she told me that 3 weeks ago she had more thyroid tests and the doctor was angry because her results had got so much worse. One result had gone from 11 to 17 and the other one to 9.5 which said her doctor said was danger level. Now I am not a doctor and don't know what these results mean all I know was that she felt so well in December. At the same time she saw the doctor she had become tired again (I did tell her she should have come back to me then!!!). Her doctor put her on Thyroxine 50mg which is not a very high dose. She is still tired 3 weeks later. I have repeated the Sepia 200 as a dry dose again but am thinking of giving it in a WP daily. I want to see if the dry dose bucks her up first and now long it lasts.
Do you think it is possible to reverse the poor thyroid results so the doctor would be able to take her off the thyroxine after her tests in a month's time? Why do patients not phone when they start going down again? Grrrr!!!!
Rochelle
Registered Homeopath
EFT(Advanced) Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk

I would be interested to hear what others have to say. I find thyroid imbalance very difficult and do resort to orthodox if necessary. Grossly underactive cases can become quite mentally disturbed I have to admit I am just not skilled enough sometimes.. I imagine other supportive therapy is often needed for the the immune system. That is so in Hashimoto's. There is the role of the Pituitary and also adrenal stress to think about. Irene had some good thoughts on this.
Just looking at Repertorium Virosum see the Hep C virus could be implicated.
Main antimiasmatic remedies
LYC, MERC, SULPH, PHOS, ARS, IOD,
Hep, Chin, Kali-i, Crot-h, Nux-v, Card-m,
Aur, Kali-bi.
Related remedies
Puls, Calc, Rhus-t, Sil, Bell, Sep.
I think if thyroxine is stabilizng state one can keep searching for understanding. One certainly reads of healed cases, FWIW, Jean

Hi Rochelle,
This *sounds* like it may be a similar situation to one I had with
myself, some years back. At that time I was given a remedy that
initially appeared to have acted *very* well--all of my main complaints
dissolved, and I felt very good. *But* the effect wore off more
quickly than it "should" have (based on my understanding of my own
situation, and my own past reactions to remedies, etc., etc., etc.).
If I remember right, a 200c had me feeling great for a couple of
months, whereas I would have expected it to last me for at least 6...
(I realize the question of "how long a dose should last" is
controversial... But on basis of my own experience and etc., I was
puzzled...) The more so because when I relapsed, it left me off just a
bit worse off than I'd been before.
that it was "my remedy"), my h'th had me repeat. In a nutshell, he had
me do a handful of repeats, in several potencies, and the curious thing
was that it seemed to act very nicely each time, *but* relapsed "too
soon. And more significantly--which is the reason I'm bringing it
up--each relapse left me worse off than before I'd taken the dose. The
first time I thought it was a fluke or "coincidence", but the same
thing happened after each dose! So... I dunno whether this was an
example of suppression (actually I don't think so) or (what I've
tentatively decided) simply that the remedy was palliative in a way
that left the underlying imbalance completely unsupported, and
continuing along its merrily diseased path.
h'th didn't know that, since he wasn't interesting in knowing what
remedies I'd already had, and also was one of the "secretive" ones, who
don't want to divulge the remedy too soon [blech--last time I agree to
*that*!]--and it had helped me greatly in the past. But not these
times...)

So *if* that is the situation with your pt, the answer would *not* be
to give her more! The answer would be to figure out what remedy she
*really* needs.

If the remedy were really right, her thyroid test should not have
worsened, should it? (Maybe there are details that change the
conclusion; I offer this just for what it's worth!)
Best wishes,
Shannon

Dear Rochelle,
I had 2 Sepia patients that sounded just like yours. Both were either hanging on me constantly, or not reporting change. Both were hypo-thyroid cases. I have another hypo-thyroid case tomorrow. I felt something passive aggressive in those two women. I lost both of them eventually. I wondered if it had something to do with the Sepia personality. The desire for independence. Hope you can keep her attention. I wondered if I shouldn't have changed to Murex.
Tomorrow's case is a trans-sexual woman. I am not sure of my terminology. She has had the surgery to create female sex organs and is taking hormones. So I suppose it will be very different.
Best,
Ellen

Hi Rochelle,

Thyroids are so tricky to deal with. Even the thyroid supplement is
only palliative - the disease process continues unabated even if you
supplement to the point that the thyroid is totally switched off. The
thyroid is only a target organ, not the cause of the illness. My
guess would be that the only test indicator of whether there has been
curative action would be in the level of auto-immune antibodies.

I notice that in the miasmatic pictures Mumps has thyroiditis as part
of it's symptom picture - not sure how many others do - many of them
have the throat and gland inflammation which may be suggestive of it,
and I have read that sometimes a particular bacterial infection can
be implicated. The bacteria has a very similar structure to thyroid
hormone or thyroid cells (can't remember which), so similar that once
the infection has passed the body keeps fighting the thyroid because
it looks like the enemy. Mumps also has the swollen tongue with
difficult speech and deafness which can be part of the low thyroid
symptom picture. I think a really good match would include eye
problems as well - but I'm only guessing.

Some people have been able to reverse the picture with attention to
nutrition - but I think that is mostly when the issue is
environmently influenced and not autoimmune. Protecting from Soy,
Chlorine and Fluoride exposure can be enormously helpful.

Not sure about the results you quote - It's difficult to know what
they mean without knowing what is being tested and what the normal
range is. Usually the basic test is for TSH (thyroid stimulating
hormone) and T4 ( the thyroid hormone which is the same structure as
thyroxine but needs to be converted to T3 in the liver for the
patient to have any energy)

On the usual ranges for these in the Australian tests neither of them
make a lot of sense. 11 to 17 may be a jump in TSH - which happens as
the thyroid stops listening - the stimulating hormone has to talk
louder. (But on the Australian Range the upper normal for TSH is
closer to 3 - so even 11 sounds serious) That indicates that the
thyroid is failing. So the 9.5 must be a low level of T4. That would
make most sense as the doctor has started supplementing.

Has he done a Urinary Iodine to check whether she lacks Iodine?

How did she react to the Doctor's anger? What was he angry about? Had
she done something that he considered wrong? How were the asthma and
eczema symptoms?

What would make sense to me is to do some organ support while you
look for the similimum - So something like Fucus 3x for the thyroid,
and maybe something for adrenals and liver as well. The adrenals
sometimes also suffer from the antibodies, and sometimes they exhaust
because they do a bit of compensation for the low thyroid. The liver
needs to be working well to manage the conversion from T4 to T3 so
there is energy available - and eczema symptoms often benefit from
improving liver health.

Gail

2
from
she
give her
breathing was nearly
etc.
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tired
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dose
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Hahnemann went thru this over a hundred years ago. The 6th edition of the
organon deals with all of this.................

Aphorism 247

"But if the succeeding dose is changed slightly every time, namely
potentized somewhat higher (pp. 269-270) then the vital principle may be
altered without difficulty by the same medicine (the sensation of natural
disease diminishing) and thus the cure brought nearer".

David Little's comments -
Aphorism 247 explains why one needs to use the medicinal solution that
is succussed prior to administration and given it in split-doses. He gives
the reasons why it is difficult to speed the cure with the unmodified dry
dose or unadjusted liquid dose.

I encourage you and all to start working with water potencies as Hahnemann
taught. When using water potencies will likely need to start much lower,
potency depending on sensitivity.
It will make all the difference in cases such as this. VF needs dose
changed slightly every time as he says - potentized somewhat higher

Sheri
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
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i have had that reaction myself on several occasions. remedies
that work for a time and then there is a reversal. what i understand
is that the remedy was very close but not correct for the situation
currently presented. there is another layer, perhaps, that is needs
to be attended to first. and perhaps that layer is not being perceived
quite right. it may be a miasmatic layer that needs clearing or some
small unnoticed detail that is more crucial than it appears. people
often hide some of the most critical points because they dont
think they are important enough to notice and report, or they are
too defensive about them, or they are not conscious enough about
these details. if we could always have a 3rd person observer in
our pt's lives to offer perspective!

tanya
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2/19/2008 10:55 AM

ellen,
" Tomorrow's case is a trans-sexual woman. I am not sure of my terminology. She has had the surgery to create female sex organs and is taking hormones. So I suppose it will be very different.
Best,
Ellen"

don't assume the gender choice is an issue. it may have been a sign of health for this person.
that has been my experience with those that i have known. the issues are usually the ones of
childhood that caused grief or anger or being survivors of discrimination which can be very
stressful.
good luck
tanya

Dear Gail,

I feel like I am over my head with this hypo-thyroid case tomorrow.

I understand why you say avoid the halogen group elements, chloride and Flouride. They will take the place of iodine on the T3 and T4 hormones, right? Why is the soy to be avoided?

Best,
Ellen

Hi Ellen,

For some people with thyroid issues Soy acts in some way to block
thyroid hormone.
I'm sure others can be more precise about how it happens but I think
part of the process is that Soy is involved in increasing the oestrogen
levels which are related to copper retention, thyroid depression and
ongoing fatigue. On the other side of the balance is progesterone which
is associated with increasing zinc levels and increased energy. Zinc
acts to improve thyroid function. Copper and Zinc need to be in the
right balance as do Oestrogen and Progesterone.

Like most things, whether Soy has any impact on your client needs to be
assessed on an individual basis, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to
think about whether the extra hormones being administered are affecting
the thyroid, especially if it involves administration of oestrogen out
of balance with progesterone. Oestrogen also has an impact on the liver
possibly compromising conversion of T4 to T3.

Gail

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Madono" wrote:
and
hormones,