Minutus

§ 14
There is, in the interior of man, nothing morbid that is curable and no
invisible morbid alteration that is curable, which does not make itself
known to the accurately observing physicians by means of morbid signs and
symptoms - an arrangement in perfect conformity with the infinite goodness
of the all-wise Preserver of human life.

Rgds
Soroush
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13:46

Finrod wrote:

I'll probably be shot for suggesting it but I do not fully agree with
this aphorism.
There is a lot that is internal and invisible that does NOT make itself
known to the accurately obvserving physician - but which is curable and
needs to be cured in order to prevent even worse disease which is visible.
What's "visible" is also debatable. Are we to ignore what is visible
by modern lab tests and procedures, but which is invisible otherwise?

As an example, thymus damage as is caused by vaccinations and/or steroid
drugs and/or eating quantities of soy foods, is internal and invisible
disease, which may be detected currently only by complex lab tests for
cytokine measurements, and perhaps echosound of thymus - nothing visible
to the "accurately observing physician".

My new kitten is a case in point. Vaccinated to the nth degree
(grrrrr!), superficially she is the picture of health, but I know that
her thymus is damaged and her cytokines are badly out of balance, skewed
to Th-2, and that in time this will become visible as a TH-2 skewed
disease. It's not predictable which one she will develop - For now
however, she is diseased but it is not visible in terms of observable
symptoms.

This is a common modern problem, that of invisibly but severely damaged
immune system, something that man has caused (probably all since
Hahnemann's time, via vaccines, steroids and soy products) as new
category of serious disease with additional consequent chronic disease.

If we take this aphorism too literally, we shall not even try to repair
a diseased immune system. At least not before further consequential and
more visible damage has developed and which is a lot less curable, such
as cancer, FIP, AIDS and the other Th-2 skewed diseases.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Dear Irene,

I think you touch here on one of the important dilemmas of modern
homeopathy -- how to use information we have about diseased inner systems
that have not yet manifested outward disease, especially since
allopathically, at least, it appears easier to treat pre-conditions than the
pathologic conditions after they have developed.

Like, for instance, it certainly makes sense to treat asymptomatic high
blood pressure before there is a stroke, or an aortic aneurism before it
bursts.

In my own practice, I use the allopathic test information usually as a
confirmatory symptom for the remedy (in other words, in the above examples,
I want a remedy that targets the circulatory system and the correct
miasms) -- but actually choose the remedy based on whatever else about the
patient is individualizing, with the underlying miasmatic or impending
condition in mind.

As I write this, I'm wondering (off the top of my head -- this may be all
wet, and I may join you on the firing target line) -- if the information
disclosed by the lab tests, giving us an idea of impending health disasters,
isn't actually visible in the patient in the form of miasmatic patterns that
would predict the possibility of similar future disasters?

Rosemary
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HI Rosemary and Irene I also agree on this –
I have a case at present that fits this question.
Woman 52 post menopausal
Symptoms that are overt – bloating, food sits like a load in stomach after eating evening meal and interferes with sleep – feels like it will not digest – flatulence, constipation Other meals not so bad as is active and very busy and anxious at work so metabolises higher ?? or at least digests better when busy. Worse when home and more relaxed. Tiredness. < Stress in general
But blood reports show that TSH is almost non-existent but T3 and T4 are at very upper end of normal values???

ALT = 47 U/L (norm 0-45U/L) AST = 41 U/L (norm 0-41 U/L) NAD for all other haematolgical parameters
So do I only look at what symptoms are present (which are not what one would expect in Hyperthyroidic conditions – Dr wants to start Graves disease meds) or in light of this do I look at Thyroid?? Pituitary?? Hypothalamus??? (or glands – endocrine) in the prescription also.
This is always a dilemma for me?? Regards Pauline
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D.
Sent: Tuesday, 21 August 2007 2:41 AM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] ORGANON 6:14

Dear Pauline,
As I read your interesting description of the 52 year old woman, I wondered what seems to be the cause or origin of her symptoms.
As you say, the presenting symptoms don't indicate a central focus on hyperthyroidism. However, if this situation occurs, it's the body's attempt to restore healthy balance when for some reason it's being pushed out of balance -- so it is part of the totality that must be addressed.
Why is this imbalance occurring?
Whatever it is, is affecting her digestion and her endocrine function as well as her emotional balance and general energy level.
Her fatigue and poor digestion when at rest is probably a clue as well -- something has stressed her out and exhausted her in general, and her response is hyperactivity to keep functioning.
What I'm saying, clumsily, is there seems to be a potentially deeper level in the case, and the thyroid overactivity information will be valuable to you as an adjunct piece of information to confirm her overactivity (busy-ness) at work as a central issue.
Also it's worth noting that thyroid hyperactivity is often the first stage of hypothyroidism -- exhaustion of the thyroid's functioning.
Please keep us posted on what happens with this case. It will be interesting to learn how you solve it. Thanks for sharing it.
Rosemary

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Hi Irene,

Nash has talked about this already, asking his "brethren" whether e.g.
hepatization in pneumonia is not a symptom. Obviously the discussion
dates back to at least his time.

The more relevant problem, IMO, is that neither hepatization nor
skewed immune system are symptoms that show up in the provings. So as
long as the classical homeopaths stick to the idea that treatment has
to be based on symptoms of provings this seems to be a problem that
cannot be solved. If we want to stick to exactly what Hahnemann said
we cannot use this knowledge. If we want to extend our treatment modes
we have to extend the idea as to what can be used for bases of
prescriptions.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Every bit of information that can be gathered is to be used, because every symptom, sign, measurement, reading is related to the patient.
But it has to be first understood, and that is where the mistakes are made. Souroush asked what will the BP reading give to the homeopath and how will it reflect in rubrics; that is the same question that appears regularly on every homeopathy list "what remedy can I take for hypertension ?".
First understand what is this patient's high blood pressure: a reflection of emotional or social pressure? A kidney problem? A bad nutritional pattern? Clearly the approach will be different; and the rubric hypertension does exist in Murphy (under diseases) and in the last Complete Repertory (under the section Clinical), but IMO is to be used only for confirmation.
The same process has to be applied to anything; pneumonia is in the repertories, and has been for a long time.
Now imagine a patient with exactly the same symptoms, signs, modalities and concomitants for the pneumonia, which is obviously what has to be cured at the time of the consultation; but one of them got his pneumonia after aspiring some vomit in a drinking bout, the other is immunocompromised and receives cortisone for arthritis: although you might repertorize the same remedy, the total clinical treatment would be different.
A modern plague is the so-called Chronic Fatigue Syndrome; in my experience, using only the description of the symptoms and complaints to find rubrics and remedies is close to useless. Finding the origin is better but by the time the patient is in front of me so much damage has been done that even the proper remedy for that abuse in childhood will not cure the fatigue: I have to know which organ, system, function is not working properly, repair it then go back to the usual treatment.
In other words, because a master has not used a technology that was or was not available does not mean it is useless and should not be integrated in our practices.
It seems that many homeopaths, while (rightfully) decrying the use of labeled diseases are at the same time not using ALL the information hidden behind the label. And that is poor medicine.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".
Go to www.lulu.com/content/1103716 for my new book "The Handbook of Gemmotherapy"

Hi,

Doesn't it help that we know a lot more about the immune system or hepatization? Can't you see test results, or know that certain elements affect certain systems and your patient is affected in a number of those systems and thus guess that the remedy related to the ion must be helping on a systemic level.

That's too abstract. But, for example, I know Ferr-m works on many levels for me. Also, I see iron is important in odd places such as the stomach, a control over free radicals in lactoferrin or conversely catalyzing of free radicals. I have problems with gouty inflammations. I would think the iron might help with these inflammations -- even gout. No good because this is just loose thinking -- speculation. Ferr-m for anemia of course, but not related with other iron related processes? Not a way to select a remedy, but a way to organize the symptom picture as it comes out in the healing process of the patient. I am not sure if this sort of thinking is useful.

Best,
Ellen

Or maybe they did - but just as now - the symptoms were not visible
enough to be noted. Can you prove the provers did not have the
non-visible symptoms?

If a blind prover can not see the redness of the skin happening - does
that mean we should ignore the skin redness as a proved rubric?

What happened to common sense?
If the symptom is there - visible or not - it is valid!
To insist that a "blind prover" (who forgot to do the blood tests to see
what was "visible" on them) who missed symptoms is the only kind of
prover to use to decide on valid rubrics - makes no sense to me.

Provings are not the only way to verify rubrics - case histories also
are relevant - and it would make sense to add in symptoms from lab tests
and other "blind" sources as we learn them.

If classical homeopaths prefer to remain blind, that is sad indeed.
I think:-)

Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Hi Irene,
Prove no - but I can consider it very unlikely.

Hepatisation occurs as part of pneumonia - and AFAIK no prover got
pneumonia from a proving. I also consider it improbably that a proving
- as differentiated from poisoning - skewed the immune system.
If it is there, yes. I doubt that it is there.
Yes, that is what I mean. Many of our symptoms are dervied from that,
i.e. from experience and from poisonings. In a discussion this tends
to be acknowledged, but in discussin general principles of homeopathy
we keep referring to the provings as absolute base.

and it would make sense to add in symptoms from lab tests
Yes - it also would make sense to include them in the modern
provings in order to find out whether indeed there are changes. If we
find there are, there should be re-provings of the old ones to
ascertain the changes of lab values.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========