Minutus

Hello friends!
I'm posting this on a few lists as I need help right away.

Yesterday a "stray" cat was hanging out in front of our house all day.
Eventually, my 9 year old daughter and her friends followed her to the
woods where they found 5 kittens in a hole under a tree. They look to
be about 3-4 weeks old.

The mama cat is fairly young and skin and bones but otherwise looks
very healthy. I picked off 3 tics but did not see any fleas at all. No
ring worm or other skin issues except a bit of pitch here and there on
her and the kittens.

We brought them onto our screened porch and made a bed for them. The
mama seemed relieved but rather scared and anxious at all the
comotion. I put a little Aconite in some water. She immediately drank
it and then layed down with the kitties and slept very soundly and
peacefully while they nursed (even through some very loud fireworks).

She later woke up and checked out the place and purred with us for a
bit. She is clearly very domesticated.

Last night she had a large puddle of chocolate colored completely
liquid diarrhea. This morning she is sleeping and the kitties are
nursing. But she appears to be breathing rapidly (at least her tummy
looks like it). She did not feel warm to me. I don't have a thermometer though. Her nose may be a little dry today.

Questions - what can I do for her for the diarrhea. Unfortunately
yesterday before I knew about the cat, the kids fed her pepperoni and
goldfish crackers - UGH! Which she ate all of. In the afternoon, the
neighbor gave her wet dogfood which she also ate all of. Surprisingly
last night she didn't vomit!

Second, what can I feed her to help her tummy right now? I haven't had
pets for over 8 years since we're all allergic (and our remedies still
haven't nipped that!). When I had a cat, I used to make a special
homemade food for it but I can't even begin to remember how I did it.
I recall it had rice. If anyone can help me that would be great!

I barely paid attention to the bad news regarding all the bad pet food
so I don't know what is good and what is bad these days. I'd prefer to
make from scratch unless there is something that might fit her better
right now.
We live in Florida where it is about 95 - 100F degrees every day with torrential downpours most afternoons. How this cat has survived thus far is beyond me. We have Bobcats in the backyard - huge snakes around, etc!

Thanks in advance!
Truly,
Erica
mcphee.family@verizon.net

Hi Erica,
I'll let others weigh in with more specific advice re her food and
remedies, but I think the first step would be *don't* feed her anything
for a while!!!! To go from half-starved to overfed on junk
(shudder)... She needs to cope with what she's got, then move on to
*small* amounts of some really good stuff--and if it were me, I'd feel
okay about beginning with one of the better commercial kibbles (kitten
formula, esp. since she's nursing), and/or a raw egg (ours adore that)
and/or *small* bits of cooked or raw meat, tuna, etc.--tho these may
not be ideal, they would certainly give her a "leg up"! (The brand of
kibble that Irene has recommended is Pro Ac Kitten, if that helps you
at all.)

Overfeeding a starving critter is dangerous...! And diarrhea is
probably (only guessing) the second-best response, the best being to
vomit some??
Shannon

McPhee Family wrote:
Probably from the pepperoni, dog food etc.

Just feed her the right stuff:
Suggest ProPAc kitten dry food, available 24/7 - you'll need to keep the
dogs away somehow.
Get a few cans of Hills a/d from a vet, use to feed supplements:
Mix it 50/50 with hot water, and add supplements:
A teaspoon of pure rice bran and a teaspoon of plain cooked pumpkin
daily (freeze the rest in ice cube tray for later.) Add a probiotic with
bifidus and acidophilus but no "extras" - something very plain. Also a
tiny bit of PABA (para-amino0-benzoic acid, about a tenth of a people
tablet a day is enough, more will not hurt.)

The PABa "kick-starts" the bifidus which makes the nutrients and short
chain fatty acids cats need in the gut. The rice bran is what the
bifidus needs to eat (do not feed milk) and the pumpkin provides the
carotene of which cats need 12 times as much as dogs, mainly to support
the immune system.
So This will regenerate her gut health via beneficial bacteria.

The ProPAc kitten is the only commercial kitten food sans toxins for
cats or other improper ingredients for cats.
If you can't find it, next best is Nutro Max kitten (Not the "complete
care") or Walmart's Maxximum kitten.

Your use of Aco was spot on )
As above.
As above - ProPAc is all USA ingredients and approved through strict
export guidelines as well.

I'd prefer to

Here's an option, but it is best to have food available to nibble 24/7
as well:

HEre's a recipe to make in the blender. This is for sardines. I start
with that as it is strong flavoured to hide supplements in case you want
to add any.
Then I change
sardines to canned salmon, then canned chicken, canned turkey - etc.
Look for sardines in spring water with no salt added. (I've tried it
with tuna and it does not liquefy well - maybe that's my antique
blender, not sure - but served in a bowl the tuna also does not work
well, separates fast and leaves dry stuff on the bottom they do not
like. Otherwise rotating varieties seems to help.)
Always add Vit E and taurine to fish for cats.

THICK LIQUID CAT FOOD for building health:
Mix all in a blender:
* 2 cans sardines plus same amount of water
(or similar volume of other protein source)
* 1 and 1/4 teaspoons glutamine powder (to help retain/build muscle)
* 3 or 4 capsules 1000 mg Fish oil
* 1 capsule 1000 IU VIt E (prick and empty into food)
* 1 capsule Moducare (optional for immune system balancing)
* 1 capful liquid acidophilus type culture preferably containing bifidus
plus 1.5 teaspoons dextrose to help taste
* 2 teasp rice bran
* 2 teasp extra virgin olive oil
* 1/4 teaspoon ascorbic acid plus 1 teaspoon dextrose (optional - reduce
if stool is loose on this amount)
* 1/4 teaspoon taurine powder and 1/2 capsule of 500 mg pantothenic acid
and 1/4 of a B-50 vitamin tablet and 1 teaspoon dextrose (for stress)
* 1/4 capsule Minerall brand minerals (multimineral supplement) or a
teaspoon of crushed nori bits.

This is not perfect food - it could use some more animal fat besides the
fish oil such as chicken fat from chicken skins.
Feed any fresh meat but must be cooked at least on the surface (inside
can be raw for cats, not surface)

Sources HF store and/or:
Glutamine powder, taurine powder etc from Bulknutrition.com
Minerall "Clinician's Formula" I found on the internet, can't remember
where!
B-50 at Costco, is a general B vit supplement with 50mg of most B vits.
(All are people supplements.)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Robert & Shannon Nelson wrote:

Hi Shannon,
I am sorry but this is not good advice. Cats have a very fast protein
metabolism and fasting even for a few hours - especially with kittens to
nurse at the largest and most demanding size before they wean - can lead
to ketosis (apart from kidney damage as cats are forced to break down
their own muscle if not fed frequwently every day.

Certainly this one had a lot of rubbish fed to her, pepperoni in
particular - but the gut repair approach plus good food should set her
right. A dose of Nux-v may also help if necessary as first aid.
It's awful yes - but repair can be achieved by providing the right
things rather than by fasting.
Kitten formula is what I recommend for cats of all ages as it has better
protein and the carbs that are provided instead in "adult" food are
damaging to health!
Yes but sometimes hard to digest in a cat who never had it before. She
may have found egg before but one does not know here.
Cats take a month to learn to digest a new protein.
Also it is easy to offer too much. One has to remember that one egg to a
human is like 15 eggs to a cat - so quantity matters.
I'd introduce it a 1/4 teaspoon at a time, well beaten in a little water.
Not raw for cats. Dogs can handle raw. Cats have their nutrients
depleted by the enzymes that bacteria make on the surface of raw meat.
So the surface of the meat for cats must be cooked. The inside could be
raw (or cooked). (Unless the meat was fresh-slaughtered right before the
cat's meal.)
Sardine and salmon are better.

--tho these may not

ProPac yes. thanks for rememebring.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Thank you everyone for the excellent advice. I will be off again to
see if I can find the recommended food.In the meantime, I used a
small bit of steak cooked rare we had left in the fridge and ground
it in the food processor with water and a little rice. She is
ravenous but I gave her small amounts every couple of hours.

My main concern right now is she is not drinking any water and she
is panting. Granted it's 100 degrees outside but she's in the shade
in our screened porch with the fan on.

When I picked her up to show her the litter box, she growled at me
so I just let her be. She'll still get out and walk around us and
was kneeding with purring...

I added a little Culturelle (single probiotic) to her water last
night and she drank it well. (She drank a lot of water last night).

So will follow advice as you've given here going forward. I wish I
had caught the kids before they fed her that junk but I didn't know.

Thanks everyone! I've grappled with whether to take her to a vet but
I'm worried about what they might want to do - vaccines and
such...but I want her to have good care. We don't have any extra
money for vet bills but I need to do right but this mom who has
taken such good care of her kittens so far.

Truly,
Erica

Ah, thanks--I forgot about the fast metabolism issue.
Shannon

Irene,
Thank you very much for all the good info. If you don't mind, I have
a few more questions...

She has not drank water all day today but has eaten all I have given
her - 2-3 Tb. of the ground meat and rice - 5 times. Is this too
much or not enough? She wolfs it and then still seems hungry. I
added some water each time and she lapped it up to get all the food
but other than that won't put drink from the water dish.

She also has not urinated or pooped today. She growled at me when I
put her in the litter box - the only time she has growled yet.

She seemed to perk up this afternoon though and came out of the
bedding and sat with me purring away. Her eyes look clear and she's
alert - perking up when she hears birds in the woods. She stopped
panting when it cooled down.

Is there a remedy I should give her for the eliminating or not
drinking or do we just need to wait it out?

I couldn't find the ProPac but bought some sardines and the other
things you mentioned. Is canned pumpkin OK? I could not find fresh.
Do I have to buy the ProPac at the vets? I'm going to call a vet's
office on Thursday (of course 4th of July holiday tomorrow).

We don't have any dogs or other animals (it was the neighbor that
gave her dog food) so it's not a worry to have the dry food down. Is
there a max I should put down or just leave a full bowl out?

After looking at pics and info on the internet, it appears the
kittens are under 3 weeks as they aren't standing yet. They are
amazingly healthy looking, perky, and their bellies are full after
nursing which they are still doing pretty much all day.

I appreciate the info!!
Truly,
Erica

> Irene,

Hi,
I'll help if I can....
I would feed her as much as she wants - she has to feed many bodies, and
cats do best when free-fed.
As for water, she might not be too thirsty if her food is "wet" food, but
I would make sure it is fresh and in a large bowl into which her whiskers
will fit to feel where the water surface is, and near to her so she does
not have to leave her kittens to get to it.

I

Good idea!
Should be okay since she had loose stool before and would be empty, and
since she drank so little.
Keep an eye on her in case she is hurting for some reason as opposed to
growling for emotioal causes. If her bladder is blocked it's an emergency
- you can use Cantharis 12C or 30C aqueous, repeating doses every now and
then till she urinates if she seems blocked. But hopefully she is just
asking you not to mess with her routine:-)
Sounds all good.
Check her for dehydration but otherwise leave her be. Check:
Lift scruff of neck and let go. It should drop down promptly. Any slowness
or lack of return to position means severe dehydration and you'd need to
seriously consider a Sub-Q kit for hydration. Do you have one? And you'd
need to rehydrate her and add some potassium - a 99 mg capsule os potasium
supplement halved and fed at two separate "meals" 2 hrs apart.
perfecet yes.
They do not usually carry it no, a feed store should have it and all feed
stores can get it - else look for the nearest supplier at
propacpetfood.com
All cats need 24/7 access to food especally ones who are nursing kittens,
so leave it available.
They'd be walking all over at 3 weeks. Eyes open at 8 to ten days.
They will learn to use litter at about exactly 5 weeks or a coploe days
before. So have it handy if ou want to home them with people who want a
potty trained kitty - and leave kitten dry food out for them too. They
will start to nibble at about 4 or 5 weeks (but do not wean them! That
comes at 3 months) and if they try food first - they are less likely to
nibble litter at 5 weeks, and will know which is which. They take 2 days
to potty train themslevs provided they are confined to an area where that
is an obvious choice, and they are not on soil. *Use a tarp if they are
outdoors ahnd make a "fence"
the mom can hop over.
Great!!!
You're most welcome,
Irene

sig lines etc......

Thank you so much Irene and everyone for the great advice on helping the mama and baby kitties. I am happy to report everyone is doing wonderful! Mama cat is using the litter box and having regular pees and BMs. Happy, happy and what a lovey cat she is! Someone must be missing her so we'll be walking the neighborhood when it cools down a bit so we can ask around.
Just wanted everyone to know she's doing great!
Thanks again!
Truly,
Erica

McPhee Family wrote:

You're welcome - Lovely to hear the progress - you did a good rescue!!!
Namaste,
IRene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."