In bringing home a new pup of kitten from a breeder - what would be the specific questions you would ask (and then keep in your records) of the breeder so that a vet homeopath has the information available when beginning to work with the animal?
Most of the time my companions have come from rescues so I have never had the luxury of gathering any breeder/birth/history information - so when a friend asked me - I had no idea. This list seems to have a good representation of both vet homeopaths and some breeders so I thought you could help.
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
Vet Hom question
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Ginny Wilken
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:00 pm
Re: Vet Hom question
Not a vet or a Hom, but one who deals with many of both. Firstly, I would demand, not ask, that the animal be unvaccinated, so that means you don't need to ask for shot records. If your friend is not of this mindset, then by all means get the vaccination records, type, date, manufacturer, etc. I'd like to know what the animal had been eating, and at what age he was weaned. I'd want to know if he had been wormed, and with what drug. I'd want to know if he was an AI conception or a natural breeding, or a Caesarean birth. I'd like to know a bit about the health background of the parents and forebears - without sounding threatening by saying "disease", try to find out how long they are living, what they are typically dying of, what their insult load was in terms of diet and drugs. And I'd like to observe the parents to get an idea of their temperament and possible disease load.
If she does even half of this, she'll be way ahead. What still matters most are the presenting symptoms, I'd say, so not to worry about what one doesn't know. It's more important to shop carefully for a new animal before you find you are stuck with one full of disease already. If someone is on the edge of doing it very well, like this, with homeopathic care, then they should start with as clean a slate as possible, don't you think?
ginny
If she does even half of this, she'll be way ahead. What still matters most are the presenting symptoms, I'd say, so not to worry about what one doesn't know. It's more important to shop carefully for a new animal before you find you are stuck with one full of disease already. If someone is on the edge of doing it very well, like this, with homeopathic care, then they should start with as clean a slate as possible, don't you think?
ginny
Re: Vet Hom question
Ginny,
Thank you for the thoughts. I've had to start with big mysteries and great unknowns with my rescue adoptions so the idea of what questions would be asked of a breeder intrigued me.
In some ways it seems so similar to taking a case with an adult - you always ask about family history, childhood information, etc. But I was curious if specific information available from the breeder could be particularly useful or give insights into animal remedy choices later in their lives.
Thank you for the thoughts. I've had to start with big mysteries and great unknowns with my rescue adoptions so the idea of what questions would be asked of a breeder intrigued me.
In some ways it seems so similar to taking a case with an adult - you always ask about family history, childhood information, etc. But I was curious if specific information available from the breeder could be particularly useful or give insights into animal remedy choices later in their lives.
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Rosemary C. Hyde, Ph.D.
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm
Re: Vet Hom question
Hi, Ginny.
That was a great list!! I wonder if there's any movement in the world of breeders (cat or dog) to put together an association that would announce their adherence to these principles. That way prospective buyers who are interested in the holistic health background of their new furry family members would have a clue where to start.
) Rosemary
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That was a great list!! I wonder if there's any movement in the world of breeders (cat or dog) to put together an association that would announce their adherence to these principles. That way prospective buyers who are interested in the holistic health background of their new furry family members would have a clue where to start.
) Rosemary________________________________
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Irene de Villiers
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Vet Hom question
DCR wrote:
Dear DCR/Rona,
As a breeder and vethom, I think this is a good question.
But first I'd select an animal that is structurally sound. Feel the
bones left and right for how symmetrical they are. Feel the ribcage for
volume, you want one that is enough volume to breathe easily under
stress, not one that is too shallow or narrow. If the animal is for
breeding, choose one that is not too narrow in the hips (male or
female). Also choose an animal that is not stunted in its growth for any
reason.
If you have a preference for constitutional type for various
reasons - choose that too Look for bright expressive clear eyes and
good muscle tone.
Get a written pedigree with a registration from one of the
recognized registries for the breed, showing the registered number of
the cat/dog, and ask for photos where possible - and health history of
parents, siblings of parents, and grandparents. [This will pretty much
tell you of any common health issues and will bring out most genetic
issues - the secret is in following not just parents, but also siblings
of parents if possible.]
Research genetic problems known to occur in the breed so you can ask
for relevant tests to be negative.
Ask the breeder what health guarantee they offer if any. Most will
guarantee a lack of genetic defect of the kind known to occur in the
breed - and/or lack of hip dysplasia or ask for a Baer deafness test in
white cats etc etc. Do your research on the breed in advance.
A good breeder will be asking YOU twenty questions and then some, being
concerned whether you will provide a good home, and good care for life.
Will ask if you have a dog run, or will keep a cat indoors etc. Beware
any breeder who is only in it for the fee charged. Run away in fact.
They should be concerned to match the pet you need with the reason you
want a pet as well, and may assess your ability to care for it -
discussing how big the pet will become, the monthly average support
cost, the cost of veterinary care, housing, etc..
A good kitten/puppy was not weaned before 3 months earliest, moves well,
and is on high protein food - check on this, nutrition is critical.
If possible get a pet with no vaccinations but it is almost impossible,
especially if there is air transport involved. Plan your pet before it
is bred, and ask the breeder to use homeopathic vaccination remedies
before/after vaccinations and to do the minimum.
Be aware that a lot of breeders consider it unethical to leave out
vaccines, and will not sell to someone so unethical (in their view) as
to not care about the preventive health of a pet. In fact many breeders
consider it part of an ethics code to both vaccinate AND neuter a
kitten/puppy before parting with it. I abhor this practice but am in the
minority. It's a LOT more work to ensure later spay/neuter than to
mutilate a pup/kitten early on. So talk to a good breeder BEFORE they do
the breeding for your pup/kitten and get to agree policies involved.
Different registries have different (or no) ethics codes for breeders.
In America there is usually no ethics code required in cat registers for
example - apparently they think it is a matter of "freedom". But
overseas it is a requirement to follow an ethics code and a registered
cat breeder will be tossed out and not be allowed to register
kittens/puppies if they violate the agreed code they signed to uphold.
There will be an Ethics Committee in charge of adjudicating violations -
and the country's court system may also be used if necessary to stop
animal cruelty such as puppy and kitten mills for example.
Federation Internationale Feline is a feline register which has member
organisations (A cat register in a country is a "member" of FIFe) in
more than 40 countries including most of Europe but not USA and their
breeding rules are here as an example:
http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_rls_b ... l#Breeding
So ask what register your breeder belongs to, and you can google
some info on the registry policy if any. That's a good starting point
for negotiating the care of your specific animal.
There's a lot more to consider if a cat/dog is to be used for breeding.
I'll assume that is not relevant at this stage but please feel free to
ask if it is.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Dear DCR/Rona,
As a breeder and vethom, I think this is a good question.
But first I'd select an animal that is structurally sound. Feel the
bones left and right for how symmetrical they are. Feel the ribcage for
volume, you want one that is enough volume to breathe easily under
stress, not one that is too shallow or narrow. If the animal is for
breeding, choose one that is not too narrow in the hips (male or
female). Also choose an animal that is not stunted in its growth for any
reason.
If you have a preference for constitutional type for various
reasons - choose that too
Look for bright expressive clear eyes and good muscle tone.
Get a written pedigree with a registration from one of the
recognized registries for the breed, showing the registered number of
the cat/dog, and ask for photos where possible - and health history of
parents, siblings of parents, and grandparents. [This will pretty much
tell you of any common health issues and will bring out most genetic
issues - the secret is in following not just parents, but also siblings
of parents if possible.]
Research genetic problems known to occur in the breed so you can ask
for relevant tests to be negative.
Ask the breeder what health guarantee they offer if any. Most will
guarantee a lack of genetic defect of the kind known to occur in the
breed - and/or lack of hip dysplasia or ask for a Baer deafness test in
white cats etc etc. Do your research on the breed in advance.
A good breeder will be asking YOU twenty questions and then some, being
concerned whether you will provide a good home, and good care for life.
Will ask if you have a dog run, or will keep a cat indoors etc. Beware
any breeder who is only in it for the fee charged. Run away in fact.
They should be concerned to match the pet you need with the reason you
want a pet as well, and may assess your ability to care for it -
discussing how big the pet will become, the monthly average support
cost, the cost of veterinary care, housing, etc..
A good kitten/puppy was not weaned before 3 months earliest, moves well,
and is on high protein food - check on this, nutrition is critical.
If possible get a pet with no vaccinations but it is almost impossible,
especially if there is air transport involved. Plan your pet before it
is bred, and ask the breeder to use homeopathic vaccination remedies
before/after vaccinations and to do the minimum.
Be aware that a lot of breeders consider it unethical to leave out
vaccines, and will not sell to someone so unethical (in their view) as
to not care about the preventive health of a pet. In fact many breeders
consider it part of an ethics code to both vaccinate AND neuter a
kitten/puppy before parting with it. I abhor this practice but am in the
minority. It's a LOT more work to ensure later spay/neuter than to
mutilate a pup/kitten early on. So talk to a good breeder BEFORE they do
the breeding for your pup/kitten and get to agree policies involved.
Different registries have different (or no) ethics codes for breeders.
In America there is usually no ethics code required in cat registers for
example - apparently they think it is a matter of "freedom". But
overseas it is a requirement to follow an ethics code and a registered
cat breeder will be tossed out and not be allowed to register
kittens/puppies if they violate the agreed code they signed to uphold.
There will be an Ethics Committee in charge of adjudicating violations -
and the country's court system may also be used if necessary to stop
animal cruelty such as puppy and kitten mills for example.
Federation Internationale Feline is a feline register which has member
organisations (A cat register in a country is a "member" of FIFe) in
more than 40 countries including most of Europe but not USA and their
breeding rules are here as an example:
http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_rls_b ... l#Breeding
So ask what register your breeder belongs to, and you can google
some info on the registry policy if any. That's a good starting point
for negotiating the care of your specific animal.
There's a lot more to consider if a cat/dog is to be used for breeding.
I'll assume that is not relevant at this stage but please feel free to
ask if it is.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."
Re: Vet Hom question
I agree, Ginny's list is a good place to start. This is the type of
info I would LOVE a potential puppy mom or dad to be asking me for.
Most of the inquiries I get don't think to ask about this stuff.
They are more concerned with titles earned by parents & grandparents
than what I consider to be indications of real health and balance.
The ideal situation, IMO, would be to seek out a pup from a
homeopathically savvy breeder. Who has started your puppy's case
long before conception occurred. Who understands what symptoms are
important. Who tracks things most breeders won't understand the
meaning of. With the hope that the pups will continue homeopathic
treatment once they land in their forever homes.
Here's how I do it, but I'm sure we all do things a little
differently. I have a litter of 11 day old Duck Tolling Retrievers
right now. The mom has received 3 yrs of homeopathic treatment. Her
file is available to anyone interested. As is her actual homeopath
if there are specific questions I cannot answer. Their dad has not
received any homeopathy. I have spent much time with him, with my
homeopathic brain on, and should be able to pass on the symptoms of
CD and vaccinosis I feel he was exhibiting at the time of
conception. And what I feel might be lurking in his background that
hasn't shown up yet. I would hope this type of info would be very
useful to a homeopathic vet treating one of my pups.
I pay attention and offer full disclosure to the traditional items
already mentioned. A breeder who uses classical homeopathy will
notice things others miss. IE: their eyes are now opening. I'm
noting if both eyes are opening at the same rate, if the right or
left is opening 1st, etc. One of the biggest things I will pay
special attention to in the near future is their appetite and
digestion. What individual foods do they eat with gusto? Are there
some biologically appropriate foods they sniff and walk away from?
How does their body handle each individual food fed? I find lack of
optimal appetite & digestion to be one of the 1st places CD shows in
a pup, so I want their future homeopath to have this type of info.
As they experience new things, I note their individual physical &
mental reactions. The second place I see evidence of CD/vaccinosis
rear its ugly head is with mental symptoms like fear, shyness, etc.
Noting this type of stuff takes much time on my part. I see it as a
win/win all around. I will be providing puppy buyers with unique
info to pass along to their homeopath. I would imagine the homeopath
would do backflips to get this type of info too. Typically there is
much guesswork involved as I don't believe puppies are born with a
clean slate. They will inherit any chronic disease/vaccinosis from
their parents that has not already been treated appropriately.
The trickiest part for me, and other breeders, is finding homes who
will continue to use homeopathy as their primary healing modality.
Lists are available, but getting the word out to potential puppy
buyers is sometimes difficult. If you plan to treat your puppy using
homeopathy anyway, why not find one who has started being treated
long before conception? There are breeders, in different breeds who
realize the value of homeopathy to their breeding programs. Who
would kill to have their pups placed in loving homes who will
continue what they started: our quest for optimal health.
Deena, Buddie and her 5 munchkin Tollers.
info I would LOVE a potential puppy mom or dad to be asking me for.
Most of the inquiries I get don't think to ask about this stuff.
They are more concerned with titles earned by parents & grandparents
than what I consider to be indications of real health and balance.
The ideal situation, IMO, would be to seek out a pup from a
homeopathically savvy breeder. Who has started your puppy's case
long before conception occurred. Who understands what symptoms are
important. Who tracks things most breeders won't understand the
meaning of. With the hope that the pups will continue homeopathic
treatment once they land in their forever homes.
Here's how I do it, but I'm sure we all do things a little
differently. I have a litter of 11 day old Duck Tolling Retrievers
right now. The mom has received 3 yrs of homeopathic treatment. Her
file is available to anyone interested. As is her actual homeopath
if there are specific questions I cannot answer. Their dad has not
received any homeopathy. I have spent much time with him, with my
homeopathic brain on, and should be able to pass on the symptoms of
CD and vaccinosis I feel he was exhibiting at the time of
conception. And what I feel might be lurking in his background that
hasn't shown up yet. I would hope this type of info would be very
useful to a homeopathic vet treating one of my pups.
I pay attention and offer full disclosure to the traditional items
already mentioned. A breeder who uses classical homeopathy will
notice things others miss. IE: their eyes are now opening. I'm
noting if both eyes are opening at the same rate, if the right or
left is opening 1st, etc. One of the biggest things I will pay
special attention to in the near future is their appetite and
digestion. What individual foods do they eat with gusto? Are there
some biologically appropriate foods they sniff and walk away from?
How does their body handle each individual food fed? I find lack of
optimal appetite & digestion to be one of the 1st places CD shows in
a pup, so I want their future homeopath to have this type of info.
As they experience new things, I note their individual physical &
mental reactions. The second place I see evidence of CD/vaccinosis
rear its ugly head is with mental symptoms like fear, shyness, etc.
Noting this type of stuff takes much time on my part. I see it as a
win/win all around. I will be providing puppy buyers with unique
info to pass along to their homeopath. I would imagine the homeopath
would do backflips to get this type of info too. Typically there is
much guesswork involved as I don't believe puppies are born with a
clean slate. They will inherit any chronic disease/vaccinosis from
their parents that has not already been treated appropriately.
The trickiest part for me, and other breeders, is finding homes who
will continue to use homeopathy as their primary healing modality.
Lists are available, but getting the word out to potential puppy
buyers is sometimes difficult. If you plan to treat your puppy using
homeopathy anyway, why not find one who has started being treated
long before conception? There are breeders, in different breeds who
realize the value of homeopathy to their breeding programs. Who
would kill to have their pups placed in loving homes who will
continue what they started: our quest for optimal health.
Deena, Buddie and her 5 munchkin Tollers.