Minutus

Using the dry dose method is much more suitable for the Homeopaths today because of the easy way of giving the remedy and make an appointment in a month or so in order to watch and evaluate the action of the remedy.
With the LM you must teach the patient How to evaluate the direction of the treatment for himself if you want him to know when to take another dose and when to stop taking the remedy [A very bad idea especially since in the LM method you must stop taking the remedy and wait if there is a good strong effect toward cure, but you also must stop taking it when there is an aggravation which marks the end of the cure (and how many patients could observe themselves and be obedient enough to not taking the remedy when it helps them the most?? and to stop taking it while their illness regresses and get worsen???)]
OR, you must be able to see the patient daily or every few days in order to evaluate the direction of the treatment and to direct him to take or not to take the remedy. Unfotunately, it is not practical these days in western countries where Homeopathy is not practiced in Hospitals or clinics where the patients could stay or at least come and be checked every few days.
The 4th Organon method of wait and watch is much more suitable for the usuall setting of Homeopathic treatment in the western countries in our days (for chronic diseases), and that is why this method (though inferior to the LM method in the speed and gentle of the cure) stays the best method of our days.
In addition to that, most of the Homeopathic patients today in the western countries are not such a weak patients that are lying in bed and not having enough strength (vital force) to cope with the dry-dose aggravation and to "push" it away toward cure. So, we do not really need so much the gentler nature of the LM method for most of our patients.
Ben.

Hi Ben
Are you serious with this email?

because of the easy way of giving the remedy and make an appointment in a
month or so in order to watch and evaluate the action of the remedy.

Suitable for homeopaths but not the patient.

the treatment for himself if you want him to know when to take another dose
and when to stop taking the remedy [A very bad idea especially since in the
LM method you must stop taking the remedy and wait if there is a good
strong effect toward cure, but you also must stop taking it when there is
an aggravation which marks the end of the cure (and how many patients could
observe themselves and be obedient enough to not taking the remedy when it
helps them the most?? and to stop taking it while their illness regresses
and get worsen???)]

Are you serious?
Heaven forbid we include the patient in their care. Obedient? Strange
choice of words.
My patients have no difficulty working with water potencies after a brief
discussion and helpful instructions verbally and on paper.
to evaluate the direction of the treatment and to direct him to take or not
to take the remedy. Unfotunately, it is not practical these days in western
countries where Homeopathy is not practiced in Hospitals or clinics where
the patients could stay or at least come and be checked every few days.

I have no problem with communicating by phone or email with my patients in
the first few days and after. What is more important? The patient>

usuall setting of Homeopathic treatment in the western countries in our
days (for chronic diseases), and that is why this method (though inferior
to the LM method in the speed and gentle of the cure) stays the best method
of our days.

It is the lazy why I fear - supported by your writings above.

countries are not such a weak patients that are lying in bed and not having
enough strength (vital force) to cope with the dry-dose aggravation and to
"push" it away toward cure. So, we do not really need so much the gentler
nature of the LM method for most of our patients.

I hope you were writing this as satire

Sheri
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Gal Ben wrote:
today because of the easy way of giving the remedy and make an
appointment in a month or so in order to watch and evaluate the action
of the remedy. >>

If I did that my clients "evaluation" would be very easy:
Dead and (hopefully) buried.
I have no cases that can afford to "just hang out" for a month!
You need to do that in any case.

NAmaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

But Irene...
I hope and trust that you KNOW that "even" a 4th ed prescriber would
not follow the "take this and call me in a month" approach with a
critically ill person, nor with someone in any other sort of crisis.
Please let's give each other *some* benefit of the doubt

Shannon

Ah Ben,
DUCK!!!! ) Were you here for the rumble that just went down over
dry/water dose issues? Guys, please can we not start that again...

Ben, FWIW I also prefer dry doses for many situations, tho am learning
to use water doses too. Each method has its advantages, and it's to
our (and our patients') advantage to learn about both as we are able,
but (addressing "the crowd") it is also to our advantage to learn to
convey our "teaching points" respectfully.
I agree that for *most* patients/situations this works just fine.
(It's what I was trained in and "raised on", so is I guess still where
my affections lie, but am also branching out.)

Actually I have not found this to be difficult. If the remedy acts
strongly and clearly at the first dose, suggest that they just wait and
see how long the action lasts, checking back with you in (depending on
the situation). The few that I've used LMs with have all shared my
enjoyment in watching the remedy "kick in", and becoming familiar with
its action and pace. It becomes like getting to know a friend...! And
I tell them to call me if anything happens that they feel uncomfortable
or uncertain about--that too has been no burden, as it's sort of a
shared journey of discovery.

Only perhaps in the very beginning. People quickly learn to recognize
when the remedy is working as it should, and stay out of its way!
Phone message...

Some are! I agree with you that for *most* the difference will
not be great--and others here disagree with us on that point... I also
am not convinced that, for most of *those* delicate cases, dry doses of
low potencies cannot achieve the same thing--but for some small
percentage of patients apparently the water dose really can make the
difference between working well and not, so IMO for that reason alone,
it is worth learning more. And learn about it *before* you arrive at a
point of really needing it!
Best wishes,
Shannon

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers
wrote:
Then you are not the "usual" Western Homeopath which I talked about and
for you, the LM probably suits better.

Ben.

Hi Gal,
This is not the way Hahnemann told us to use the LM's, nor is it the
way Hahnemann worked himself, nor is it the way all or most homeopaths
work when they prescribe LM's.

The way Hahnemann himself worked was to give the LM's at a certain
potency and dilution (i.e. "glasses) at the time of appointment and at
that time he also instructed the patient at what intervals to take it
until the next appointment. This is also the way he said to do it in
the Organon.

He never said to stop when there is good progress. He himself may
have done so at the next appointment (given placebo instead), but he
did not instruct his patients to stop before the next appointment for
any reason. He did not say to do so in the Organon, neither.

Most homeopaths I know of, who work with LM's to-day, will instruct
the patient to stop (or call) if there occurs a grave aggravation. In
those cases - which are rare - most of them will tell the patient to
stop taking the remedy for a few days, until the aggravation has
ceased, and then take it less often and/or a smaller dose. Only very
few have worked the way you describe.

Very many of the LM-prescribers do so because this method makes it
so easy to manage the case. Thwey have compared the dry dose with a
free-rocket device and the LM method with device that can be
steered/controlled.

There have been a lot of German language publications, since in
Germany/Switzerland the LM's have been in wide use for about 50 years.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

some arguments are like bad pennies turning up all the time for all kinds of statements...
If your practice depends only on potency may be your patients will be dead and buried or
go around like zombies... or may be your patients are just plain thirsty if only water could
save them...

Potency is only a part of this whole process - so do not make it a sticking point in all your
discussions of case management...
I do not kill all my patients or hang them out to dry- just because I use dry doses- none of
my relatives and friends are done for yet though they have been taking dry doses... As
Shannon says there are probably areas where each one has a role to play - if you do not
use dry dosing at all may be your patients are so lucky- let it be so...and leave it at that...

do not deride what others do- state your case and that is it - nobody needs judgment
calls- all of us are mature enough to know what is good for our patients...

If homeopathic practice is an art why cannot it vary with individual practices without
someone jumping down some one else's throat....

I thought the "pure bred" went to another list- we have still not become totally
untouchables then??? I just wish the tolerance level went up a little bit...

Hi Luise,

I did not say Hahnemann said it, I said you must do it OR see your patient every few days (like Hahnemann did) because letting the patient take the dose at certain intervals for a month or so can be a very dangerous thing to do since you must not give another dose if the improvement is perceptibly good.

Of course Hahnemann said it in the Organon!
"Every perceptibly progressive and strikingly increasing amelioration during treatment is a condition which, as long as it lasts, completely precludes every repetition of the administration of any medicine whatsoever..."

Could anyone be clearer than that?

He did not need to say it to his patients because he would see them and manage their case himself, but today this is not the case for most Homeopaths and telling the patient when to stop taking the remedy is exactly what I meant by writing that you must teach the patient how to evaluate the case himself, and just like managing the case via phone or Email, it can be too risky for the treatment and very unnecessary because the type of patients I am talking about (which are the majority in the west) do not need the much gentler nature of the LM.

For most chronic patients of this kind the dry dose works great for a very long time and is much more suitable for the current reality.

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Luise Kunkle wrote:

On May 18, 2007, at 6:57 PM, hahnemannian2002 wrote:
I second all this! We can learn so much more--from each other--if we
give each other the benefit of any doubt, and act as co-workers rather
than competitors.
Shannon