Minutus

Irene,
Your statements never cease to amaze me!
Cats as well as dogs are CARNIVORES! They do not make the enzymes to digest, metabolize or utilize grains and carbohydrates. The ONLY food their bodies are designed to utilize properly and consequently result in true health is RAW MEATY BONES.
You are right in that what makes a difference is what type of food they are getting....but you are totally off base when you suggest that feeding dry, overcooked, crap in a bag is what prevents gingivitis in cats and what can result in good dental health for these animals!
Do you wonder what cats and dogs ate before the Purina truck came around? do you think that wild dogs and wolves (yes, dogs are genetically, wolves!) as well as wild cats have a little oven and/or grill/BarBQ hidden somewhere in the woods where they cook their foods at temperatures so high that all nutrition is gone? Or maybe they gather the tin cans left by humans at the camping places and fill them with the fresh meat of their prey, then stick it in these hidden ovens so they can cook the lead in the cans right into the meat, but better nutrition!
For those of you interested in the PROPER NUTRITION for your pets, please visit some of these links!
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/
This first link is especially important since it shows the studies done and the experience of Dr. Tom Londsdale in the effect of diet and dental health for dogs and cats!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://rawfed.com/
http://www.RawFedDogs.net/
http://www.rawlearning.com/
http://www.geocities.com/havens_home/feedraw.htm

Then of course, we all can give Fragaria to our pets daily, so that they have healthy teeth!
Magda Aguila
Aquiline
Animal Nutrition and
Homeopathic Consultations
Ask me about Juice Plus
http://www.juiceplus.com/+ma21937

Being a newbie to Homeopathy, I felt somewhat hesitant to share my knowledge with you “experts.” However, this topic has just been making my skin crawl with all the poor information being tossed about with seemingly “expert” advice. Dogs and cats need raw food! End of story. Like Magda said, who cooked for these animals before we domesticated them? God put them on the earth to be able to manage for themselves eating what they were intended to eat – wild game. Humans have imposed their poor eating habits on their animals because of the convenience of pouring something out of a bag or a can – just like we like to eat improper things because of convenience. Given the choice, an animal in the wild will seek out and eat raw meat and bones. They don’t run to the corn fields shucking corn to eat. Have you EVER heard of a rancher complaining that the wolves or cougars or coyotes were destroying their vegetable or grain crops! No! They were eating their livestock and/or chickens! Cows and horses eat corn! And the theory that we have changed their dietary needs because of domestication is so wrong! There are too many barn cats living off of what they catch that disproves this theory! They thrive doing this because their meals are bioavailable to them and they are usually not vaccinated either! On the evolution argument, I do not believe that our cats and dogs have been under our domestication long enough for that argument to hold up. I am no expert on evolution, but I think it takes longer than 20 years for the DNA in an animal to change so drastically.
How can a kibble that is made with enough preservatives to be able to sit on a shelf for 1 to 2 years without spoilage, be bioavailable to an animal? These preservatives are not what God gave these animals to eat. If one could make a ‘kibble’ with only meat and bones (leaving out the fillers that are currently used to just bulk up the food and put more money in the manufacturers’ pockets) and not put it through the extrusion process that depletes all the nutrition, then put it in a bag with no preservatives that become carcinogens to our animals, maybe they would come closer to making a diet that would be proper to feed. (What a minute, meat and bones with no preservatives, no extrusion processes --- well, that’s raw food! What am I thinking!)
The folks on this list are trying so hard to naturally heal by supporting the life force without harmful drugs, etc. etc. etc. Why is it difficult to accept the same idea on nutrition that serves to do the same thing? A natural food for carnivores!
Just my opinion!
Laura Gibson

Furrst Place K-9 Obedience & Bed and Biscuit

www.ProfessionalDogObedienceTraining.com

eMail: gibson@wt.net

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________________________________

From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Magda
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:48 AM
To: Irene de Villiers
Cc: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] CATS ARE CARNIVORES!
Irene,
Your statements never cease to amaze me!
Cats as well as dogs are CARNIVORES! They do not make the enzymes to digest, metabolize or utilize grains and carbohydrates. The ONLY food their bodies are designed to utilize properly and consequently result in true health is RAW MEATY BONES.
You are right in that what makes a difference is what type of food they are getting....but you are totally off base when you suggest that feeding dry, overcooked, crap in a bag is what prevents gingivitis in cats and what can result in good dental health for these animals!
Do you wonder what cats and dogs ate before the Purina truck came around? do you think that wild dogs and wolves (yes, dogs are genetically, wolves!) as well as wild cats have a little oven and/or grill/BarBQ hidden somewhere in the woods where they cook their foods at temperatures so high that all nutrition is gone? Or maybe they gather the tin cans left by humans at the camping places and fill them with the fresh meat of their prey, then stick it in these hidden ovens so they can cook the lead in the cans right into the meat, but better nutrition!
For those of you interested in the PROPER NUTRITION for your pets, please visit some of these links!

http://www.rawmeatybones.com/
This first link is especially important since it shows the studies done and the experience of Dr. Tom Londsdale in the effect of diet and dental health for dogs and cats!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/
http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html
http://rawfed.com/
http://www.RawFedDogs.net/
http://www.rawlearning.com/
http://www.geocities.com/havens_home/feedraw.htm

Then of course, we all can give Fragaria to our pets daily, so that they have healthy teeth!
Magda Aguila
Aquiline
Animal Nutrition and
Homeopathic Consultations
Ask me about Juice Plus
http://www.juiceplus.com/+ma21937
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LMGibson wrote:

Have you tried:
SKIN - FORMICATION - Under the skin
SKIN - FORMICATION


Which is NOT the same as what you are advocating:-)

Have a good weekend!
...Irene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

LMGibson wrote:

Nobody advocated such a thing - please read my posts more carefully if
you wish to argue them.
I'll repeat:
The food that is the best I can find currently, (ProPac kitten dry food)
contains no chemical additives at all; the fat in it is preserved with
Vit E (and the dryness and carefully designed packaging helps preserve
it), and there is an expiration date.

I have advised AGAINST the "holistic" foods that are preserved with
toxins such as garlic, alfalfa ans yucca - and nowhere did I suggest any
food with any regular chemical.

If you wish to get upset with my post fine - but stick to what I wrote
and don't invent reasons to argue that were not there please. Same goes
for Magda, whose private email to me was more vitriolic than I have had
the displeasure to receive in a long while.

Let's leave the kindergarten tactics out of it - a mature discussion is
about food, not list members - and it quotes what was actually said
insteaad of inventing something not said to complain about.
What preservatives? Did you not read any of my posts at all?
Your assumptions show you have not researched the matter but are going
on false claims popularly spread by the "raw food" advocates (who
apparently have not read up on it either, and whose most recent article
on the links provided was from about 20 yrs ago.)

For example:
The extrusion process does not "deplete all the nutrition" as you put
it. It's a common false claim - assumption not fact.
Extrusion is used to shape the kibble at an early stage in the process,
and the fact is that protein is very heat-stable. The nutrients that are
damaged by that process are not added till AFTER the extrusion is done -
at which time the resultant kibble is sprayed with the rest of what's
needed to make the food into what's on the label.
Again you have failed to research it.
The bags used for ProPAc kitten dry food are designed to keep the fat
(preserved with Vit E) in a stable condition and to exclude oxygen so
that the food does not degrade. It is packed in bags of 6lbs max, to
reduce risk of oxidation after opening. Smart people will store it in
the bag it arrives in, to keep it fresh.
There are no toxins in the food, and no artificial preservatives, nor
any foods toxic to cats. This is in direct contrast to any raw food
supplement I've seen to provide what is missing in raw meat and bones,
and which provides inappropriate things instead of what's needed.
In addition as raw meat is NOT fresh-slaughtered, it has deleterious
results for cats for are being conveniently ignored by the "Raw meat"
advocates - no doubt in favour of the "raw meat" industry profits?
There are no harmful drugs or etc etc etc's in the food I suggested.
Unlike raw food it is properly balanced and does not have surface
bacteria growing since slaughter, to cause nutritional depletion in
cats. It is "holistic" food that has toxins added - garlic, alfalfa,
yucca, and bnacteria killing herbs that destroy gut health.

I'll end my discussion on this unless I get a question or response that
is logical rather than emotional, and it either is a new question or
quotes what I said when referring to what I wrote.

Have a great weekend.
Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."