Minutus

Luise Kunkle wrote:

Sure - I had an outbreak of hack-cough events at my own cattery plus the
loss of an entire litter of newborn kittens - for the first time in
something like 40 years of cat breeding.
Other symptoms were lethargy and inactivity. The cough was like that of
a hairball activity - a kind of trying to vomit something out - except
nothing came out of course.
I suspected Bordetella bronchiseptica. Allopathy lists this as 100%
fatal in cats under 6 months and 50% fatal in older ones. I had more
kittens on the way and used Bordetella bronchiseptica nosode (new and
untried at the time) starting aqueous an hour after birth, twice a day
for the newborns, whose mother had active illness.
The rest of the cats were repertorized and also dosed with 30C then
200C nosode.
I needed faster healing from this silent pneumonia in cats which
only shows up at about 3 months after infection and has almost no
symptoms - just lethargy till late stage when the cat tries to
cough/vomit out the sore lungs. [Some cats never show symptoms besides
lethargy - they look "fine" one evening and are dead in the morning.
Luckily none of mine succumbed after I figured what was happening.]
My research on the internet at PubMed uncovered the genetic research
on Bordetella bronchiseptica which had its gene code documented, and
this showed the exact way it differs from Bordetella pertussis (whooping
cough), a related bacteria. One gene is significantly different. Where
pertussis has a gene to make a toxin to induce the repetitive cough -
the bronchiseptica bacteria instead makes a toxin that counters the
necessary alpha-lipoic-acid in the lungs causing an effect of an alkali
burn.
So now I understood - the cats felt like they had oven lye in their
lungs. Ouch. This helped my repping which for some of the cats was not
working that well. It also helped me to assist with alpha lipoic acid as
a food supplement so as to counter the alkali making mechanism of the
bronchiseptica toxin. After that - the cats all recovered quickly.
The newborns stayed with their actively ill mother, able to nurse and
never got ill, protected by the nosode at 30C. The mother healed quickly
on the supplemented food and newly repped remedy anyway.
Research also showed this bacteria is interstitial so I could advise
clients whose vets were poisoning cats with Baytril, clavamox and what
all else that was only adding toxin without even bacterial knock-down.
(Azithro at high dose is the only allopathic option - NOT a cure - as
the illness forms a miasm and returns, usually annually in cold fall
weather.)
My clients appreciate my understanding of both the allopathic and
the homeopathic approach with nutrition approach and my ability to
explain the pros and cons of each - and this is where the research also
is useful. I have since used what I learned for several cattery
outbreaks of this disease. It is highly contagious especially where
there are dogs as it is kennel cough in dogs - or where there are many
cats as at a vet clinic or cat show. In dogs it is a relatively
innocuous illness compared with the same illness in cats or sheep - who
get the silent pneumonia thing (as do humans) and incur high losses
without homeopathic intervention.

Another example:
I work a lot with FIP (Feline Infectious Peritonitis). My first
successful case is here (Please ignore any ads; they are not mine):
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/fipcase.html
Allopathy considers this 100% fatal. It SOUNDS contagious - but I read
the research and found it is not contagious. It SOUNDS like peritonitis
- but I read the research and found it is not peritonitis.
Research taught me that this illness starts with a ubiquitous corona
virus in the gut of all cats - an innocuous one - which can be triggered
by a multitude of stress triggers - to mutate to a new virus called FIP.
The virus tricks the iummune system into attacking the cat's body with
auto-antibodies in every way instead of attacking the virus, and
especially in one form, it causes the blood vessels to leak blood plasma
into the body cavity.
Now if I did not research this illness in detail I would not have
known what to use to repertorize it. Fluid in the abdomen is not a
useful rubric despite being clearly visible (see the website link above,
"before" picture) . You can also see the emaciation.
But knowing the fluid is "vital fluid" - essentially it is blood loss
(albeit without the blood corpuscles) and that puts a totally new angle
on the case for repping.
This is not about fluid loss per se - it is about blood loss and loss of
the nutrients in the blood.
The case you see on the website repped as china therefore - based on
*blood* loss, not "fluid" loss or edema or peritonitis. (The fluid
irritates the peritoneal wall and caused the misnomer name).
So this helped the repping and knowing the fluid lost was blood also
enabled me to plan nutrition support more appropriately.

PubMed is an excellent place to find research information on an illness
- to find the latest that is known about it - and then apply it.

Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Hi Irene,

Thank you very much. I think it is very valuable, and I appreciate it
very much. However:
Irene:
Luise:

1.
Could you say which rubrics you used on those considerations?

My idea is: pain, burning etc.

Which would show that for veterinary homeopathy this approach is most
valuable, since the cats cannot tell the sensations.

But back to our previous discussion "do homeopaths need medical
knowledge" the knowledge you had would not have added anything
relevant with human patients.

2.
Actually you do not know whether most of the cats did not recover on
the nosode, just as the kittens did.

This transposed to homeopathy for humans might point in the direction
that

a) nosodes can indeed be very valuable when used in the way that is
usually called "Isopathy" - i. e. Tuberculinum for tuberculosis
(Burnett?) resp. when made from the pathogen causing the disease.

Which again would be very valuable for what Hahnemannian 2002 said
about acutes.

Irene:
Luise:

Full agreement.

Irene:
Well actually that is true for all cases of "ascites", is it not? The
fluid leaks or is pressed out from the blood vessels for one reason or
other, the difference of specific kinds of ascites being the amount to
which larger molecules can (and do) pass through.

So, actually the rubric "fluid in the abdomen" or "ascites" should be
applicable, as should the rubrics that describe asccites in a
phenomenological way, i.e. by the signs and symptoms that are observed
by the homeopath resp. reported by the patient. (Again on the take-off
whether medical knowledge is necessary - as contrasted to desirable)

Irene:

Luise:

But the key note of China is not "hemorrhage" but "loss of vital
fluids", of which hemorrhage is only a part. Any ascites would also be
loss of vital fluids. In Kent (and probably most other reps) the
rubric "loss of vital fluids" just gives the link to "loss of fluids"
- thus actually the rubric loss of fluids should be either a synonym
or the latter should at least include the vital fluids. (China is
there, of course)

And loss of vital fluids should be much closer to the mark than
"hemorrhage", which is much narrower and does not describe what
happens in FIP. Hemorrhage definitely is "full blood leaving the blood
vessels".
Irene:
Luise:

I disagree - "blood loss" means loss of "whole blood" as far as the
MMs and reps are concerned.

Irene:

not "fluid" loss or edema or peritonitis.

Luise:

You would have found China in the first two, in the same grade as in
hemorrhage.

And peritonitis it is. Not infectuous, but an inflammation caused by
the irritation.

(The fluid

So let me provocative again - deliberately this time, which most time
I am not - and say:

Veterinary homeopaths need as much vet clinical knowledge as possible,
plus as much scientific recent knowledge as possible, because most of
their signs and symptoms are clinical.

Homeopaths treating humans need knowledge of microbiology, need
methods of identifying the pathogens causing a disease, so that they
can use the respective nosodes.

Except for the above, homeopaths treating humans do not need
scientific or medical or clinical knowledge, because they can find the
remedy just as well or badly (depending on their skill) by the signs
and symptoms the employ for their respective methods.

Homeopaths treating humans do need clinical knowledge where they are
treating without parallel diagnoses with prognoses etc. from
allopaths. For all others it may be desirable, but is not necessary.

Regards

Luise

--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Luise Kunkle wrote:
I do not have those notes handy, it was a few yrs ago.
Possibly:
Chest Pain - Lungs - burning
and
Chest - Pain - Lungs - burning - like fire
But as in all cases, mind symptoms are most relevant. The cats wanted to
cough out the sore lungs....

I remember that one of the 19 cats did not respond to the remedy repped
this way and she continued to be ill till I put her on Ant-t. (She was a
{Phos constitutional type so more susceptible to pneumonias than usual.)
More importantly though the nutrition support of alpha-lipoic acid was
essential to fast healing - it can not be supplied by the remedy - and
so it's both the right rubrics AND the right food supplements that were
provided as a result of using good research investigation.
Actually it is also useful for people. I had the infection myself at the
time too - it was I who brought it home to the cats, and the knowledge
about the alpha lipoic acid issue was very helpful, if not essential,
to my own recovery.
It sure did.
I had struggled, ill, and with no symptoms apart from severe lack of
breath and tiredness for months. (My next door neighbour had found me
collapsed in my yard - I'd seen doctors who could not find what was
wrong.) It also helped three other cat owners who arrived in my email as
vethom clients - but who were sick themselves as I was - and with cats
who were sick with this illness. They too benefitted from what I
researched on the illness. The burning sensation is not clearly felt in
humans with this as there is too much else that is sore and one is too
out of breath. Perhaps there are not so many nerves for this sensation
in the lungs? Either way - I got fast results implementing what I
discovered from research - for myself, my 19 cats, 3 other catteries of
cats and their owners.

So the burning of lung tissue due to removal of alpha-lipoic acid on the
lung surfaces, is knowledge from research which is NOT readily available
from symptoms for any species in which this causes pneumonia. The
alpha-lipoic acid supplement was also necessary to replace - and it is
not info available from any symptom. Without proper approach like this
the illness becomes a miasm that recurs....
Not sure what you mean here?
The first outbreak was PRIOR to availability of the nosode. So 19 cats
were handled with repertorizing alone. Later cases where nosode was
used, came right faster. My finding was that those who had no nosode had
a high rate of recurrence - but nosode chases that tendency.
Does that answer what you were asking here?
In this case the "nosode" is made from a drop of Boprdetella
bronchiseptica vaccine. It needs 30C and then 200C at least - to have a
suitable effect with an ill cat, but 30C seems to be good enough
preventively.
In feline upper respiratory infection (URI) which has about 4 common
organisms, there is a mixed remedy at 309C which is from 1996 and is
VERY effective against the URI illnesses cats get. This works well
because IMO it is NOT identical to the illness -the viruses have mutated
since then and the mixed remedy also makes it less identical and more
comprehensive for all URI symptoms.
So my finding is that URI 30c is fine by itself in URI illness unless
it has been suppressed, but Bordetella "nosode" is NOt enough to oust
the illness, it's too similar to the disease.
Repped remedy AND Bord nosode is needed to get rid of Bordetella
bronchiseptica properly in my experience - AND alpha-lipoic acid.
No, it's not the same IMO.
Ascites has many sources - for example malignant cells in the abdomen is
one - and liver disease is another.
To rep the FIP cases correctly it was essential to know that blood
vessels were being damaged and leaking and that the ascites was NOT just
from irritated peritoneal cells - but from compromised blood vessel
walls. (At least in the effusive form of FIP I used in my example has
this issue - there are two other forms of FIP, and I am not talking
about them here - that needs MORE research to rep well:-)))).
All the attempts I had read by other homeopaths for effusive FIP before
this were based on rubrics assuming infection (and the research shows
there is NO infective mechanism damaging the cells, not even the blood
vessels - it is a different mechanism) and on the assumption of
peritoneal damage being the *origin* of the ascites (and the research
shows this is not so) - both incorrect assumptions and thus leading to
incorrect rubrics and a complete lack of success in this illness.
That was the incorrect assumption made when nobody had any success with
effusive FIP.


Yes it is applicable as a "general" idea - but it leads to too many
remedies and the disease needs the *specific* SOURCE of the ascites in
addition, for a remedy to be correctly selected. This was not possible
(and did not happen however hard vethoms tried!) without the research
findings. VEthoms usually just say "I do not have any luck with effusive
FIP".
But in my opinion they WOULD have, if they looked at the research and
understood the disease properly.
China is by no stretch the simillimum for all cases - but vethoms were
trying Apis and suchlike remedies - and it's not even close - so it did
nothing.
No.
Ascites from other causes does not have the characteristics of effusive
FIP fluid (something else you get from the research).
FIP fluid is very high protein, yellow sticky fluid - just what blood
plasma is like. It is in fact just like blood without the red and white
cells. No other ascites fluid has ALL those characteristics.
Ascites from other causes lacks the high protein (all the cat's food
getting lost basically) and other "plasma-content" characteristics. It
is far more watery - and each kind has its own characteristics.
Yes but my point is that the SOURCE of the ascites is relevant.
And that there is more to it than "fluid" in FIP. There is also the
protein and other blood nutrients in very high levels. ONLY the
red/white cells are not leaked.

Luise:

No that also led homeopaths down the garden path in the past.
They kept emphasizing the "peritonitis".
As yo know the subtleties of repping are what give you the right remedy
in homeopathy - not the general category.
The slightly inflamed peritoneal wall is like a flea on an elephant
compared with the problem of losing blood plasma and thus all sources of
nourishment.

Here too one has to interpret differently for cats.
I use the rubric "ravenous appetite with emaciation" even though for
MOST cats there is zero appetite and they need to be assist-fed. They
are indeed hungry - and will allow assist feeding but will not eat on
their own at all.)
This is a feline thing - as cats go into ketosis very easily if they
do not get regular protein many times a day - and so if they were humans
and not in ketosis they would be ravenous (and a very early case is so)
but when in ketosis that causes lack of appetite, and so a lack of
appetite needs in THIS case to be repped as ravenous appetite with
emaciation.
That also is information from research - the high protein metabolism
of cats and their propensity for ketotic state if fasted or unfed for
even a short time.
Yes (as do human homeopaths)
No.

Back to the drawing board - Every case is MAINLY mental. The mind
rubrics MUST fit for the case to rep out correctly - and next most
relevant are the generals. It's only the specifics that may be enhanced
in vethom or human hom by knowledge of pathology, lab tests and clinical
findings.
I find it useful at times but not as essential as an understanding of
the pathology caused by them. Applies to humans and animals.
It's more complex for a vethom as the pathology of the SAME organism is
different in different species.
Why?
I do not as a homeopath, identify a pathogen.
I get the allopathic lab to do that:-)
I just use the information - for example a dog with sore ears:
If there are mites, it's not the same repping or food supplements or
client advice as if it is a yeast infection or cheatgrass or a bee sting
or a hematoma from scratching in there.

, so that they

Nosodes are not treatments - they are resistance builders.
The only case where I use a nosode as treatment as a first option - is a
non-suppressed upper respiratory infection in cats.
Nearly everything gets its matched remedy.
I do not think so, we will have to agree to differ here.
One certainly has the option of asking the humans what they think and of
finding out what kind of pain they are experiencing and a few other
areas where animal homeopathy differs in what may be used - but there is
no way I'd use homeopathy blindly when there is so much MORE I can do by
using good research information. Even if it does not help me with
rubrics, it will help me with nutritional advice and other "maintaining
causes" that I woudl wish to remedy.
The same is necessary in all homeopathy.
If you do your own clinical work and lab test work fine - but if not it
needs to be done by someone - and the homeopath needs to understand it
fully! And even be able to see if the diagnosis makes sense or not.
Homeopaths observe a lot more than allopaths towards this. The old style
doc who used to tap out all the organs and actually SEE the patient -
seems to be a thing of the past....

In my practise I usually can see what the illness is (by email) better
than the vet who sees the animal - and I'll send the client to the vet
to *confirm* this suggesting what tests they need to request.
For example I took my cat to the local vet for hydration kit, as in my
view she had a pyometra, as I told the vet. He refused the hydration kit
till he first did $400 of tests to diagnose her, coming up with as
diagnosis of cholangiohepatitis - to be confirmed by the lab tests he
sent away - and he gave me the hydration kit I wanted and a bunch of
antibiotics I left there.
I treated for pyometra of course (Pyrogenium 200C and her
constitutional remedy of Calc-phos 200C) and she was fine in 3 days.
That was when the vet phoned to say maybe I was right about the pyometra
and she'd better come in for an emergency hysterectomy. So I took her in
to show him she was 100%. (Since then he sends me his pyo cases.)

So my repping needed a good diagnosis - pyometra and cholangiohepatitis
are not exactly the same thing:-)
ALL homeopaths need to be able to spot when something does not add up:-)

Thank you for the discussion.

Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Very nice! )
In this sort of infection situation, how do you do the timing of the
acute and constitutional doses--do you wait to see that the acute one
has done its job before giving the constitutional, or ?
Thanks!
Shannon

Hi Irene,

your post below is fascinating - it is far too much for my old brain
to ingest all at once - but as soon as I have a printer gain I'll
print it out and really study it (much as I love the computer - for
real study I need the material printed) and then let it simmer, for
further questions to come to the top.

For one thing I have to sort it out - in my mind - as to the
nutritional aspect and the homeopathical (I am the kind of mind that
needs it).

I hope you do not mind if in a few weeks time I come back to it with
further questions and possibly arguments.

Thank YOU for the discussion.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Luise Kunkle wrote:

A pleasure.
....IRene

--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."