Minutus

Todd,

get thee to a real homeopath--fast!

not meaning to insult the md's on this list, i must say that if you
go through an allopathic situation, you will get allopathic treatment.
and that is what you got. he just handed out a seeming homeopathic
remedy, but the protocol he used is totally allopathic. i will spare
you of may rant against allopathic practice, but suffice it to say that
you did not have a homepathic case taking session, nor were you
afforded the benefits of homeopathic analysis and care. further,
for the price you paid out of pocket, you might as well have chucked
your health insurance and gone to a real homepath.

it is becoming more and more common for allopathic practitioners to
jump on the holistic bandwagon in order to keep the public's attention
and co-dependency. i have seen harvard u medical school sponsoring
conferences for doctors on 'alternative' protocols. in those conferences
are workshops on the economics of 'alternative' medicine relative to
allopathic practices. that is the core of their real interest--keeping the
money flowing to them!

my sympathies for your frustrating experience and well wishes in you
finding a qualified and competent real homepath

tanya
pleaseadvise
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I have met phenomenal Homeopaths that were also MD's. Everyone has
different styles. Kathy
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tanya Marquette
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 4:47 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] First visit to homeopath leaves me uneasy -
pleaseadvise
Todd,

get thee to a real homeopath--fast!

not meaning to insult the md's on this list, i must say that if you
go through an allopathic situation, you will get allopathic treatment.
and that is what you got. he just handed out a seeming homeopathic
remedy, but the protocol he used is totally allopathic. i will spare
you of may rant against allopathic practice, but suffice it to say that
you did not have a homepathic case taking session, nor were you
afforded the benefits of homeopathic analysis and care. further,
for the price you paid out of pocket, you might as well have chucked
your health insurance and gone to a real homepath.

it is becoming more and more common for allopathic practitioners to
jump on the holistic bandwagon in order to keep the public's attention
and co-dependency. i have seen harvard u medical school sponsoring
conferences for doctors on 'alternative' protocols. in those conferences
are workshops on the economics of 'alternative' medicine relative to
allopathic practices. that is the core of their real interest--keeping the
money flowing to them!

my sympathies for your frustrating experience and well wishes in you
finding a qualified and competent real homepath

tanya

pleaseadvise
and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations
regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any
document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this
website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out
of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site
or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever
caused.
your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a
single daily digest.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I do not agree with you Tanya and whether you mean it or not it- IS
insulting to MDs. Ardavan must be happy about his approval rating...

Bad practice is bad practice whoever does it. May be for MDs it is an
easy way to get money " flowing to them with co-dependency" that makes
them jump into Homeopathy (In fact do MDs really need Homeopathy to
make money?) .. but then for others it might be lack of medical
knowledge and homeopathy becomes an easy way to make a living.

It is an individual doctor who needs to be blamed here and even that
is a moot point. If Rajan et al can diagnose a Naja case just by the
way a woman wears a saree that looks like snake skin - why not Vipera?
And there are instances where the remedy is easy to find - (not that I
would have skipped proper case taking even then since I still need a
baseline). So please do not use a broad brush -

Of all the books you use for reference in Homeopathy - how many of
them have been written by non MDs? ( Leave out post-Vithoulkas era-
there the jury is still out, Take the time tested works and comment)
Even Boenninghausen got anointed ( or is it tainted) as a medical
practitioner.

Who are we to comment on fees? Is charging $ 20 for each visit and
taking 20 visits to cure a case better than taking $300 for a visit
and curing it in one shot? But charging hidden fees, or fleecing by
other methods is wrong. As long as the patient knows that the doctor
charges $$$ amount before the consultation begins then it does not
matter what the charges are-

I can show any number of "classicals" doing poor homeopathy in the
name of "classical" homeopathy...

Whatever it is - if you think this person did not do good homeopathy
blame him (or her) - not the fact that he also happened to be an MD-

Even in blaming try to individualize and not generalize-
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Tanya Marquette" wrote:
conferences
interest--keeping the
legal
in the
plan.
thought
for
of the
he'll
up to
bottle
bottle #1
bottle
practices
son's
Homoeopathy
arising out
minutus site

Yeah, me too ) )
Sorry, could not resist..................
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, MD, PhD, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind".

in defense of my position, let me note that in the usa the medical standard
is
to cut patient time to 7 minutes. the description of this case was the
typical
7" case and it doesnt work with allopathy any better than it works in
homeopathy. but that is how medical group practice is organized and run.
and it is true that the medical profession is gearing up for major
competition
with independent homeopaths. if the state of homeopathy is one of greater
acceptance elsewhere, then lucky to all of you who work in that environment.
and if the md's on this list practice in a more classical manner, then they
need
not identify with my description of what occurs in the usa, unless they are
identifying with the designation of md as the major identity and then i can
understand why they would take offense.

tanya

pleaseadvise
Of
the
the
the
he'll
bottle
bottle
practices
site
and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations
regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any
document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this
website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out
of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site
or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever
caused.
your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a
single daily digest.

If I were you I would get my monies back, call the insurance company and ask the practioner who he/she could recommend.
Then I would not use any of the practioners the Doc recommended-
Get a REAL Doctor of Homeopath.....
******
www.sarah-bright.net
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi H,
No, he didn't.

And it seems he didn't have any medical knowledge to speak of. I am
just now transcribing a letter from one of his patients, who was a MD.
It's cute to read how the patient sometimes used basic medical
expressions and then took pain to explein them:-)

And leaving out the post-Vithoulkas books written by MD's, the others
just show that you do not need any medical knowledge to be a good
homeopath (accepting for the sake of argument that the authors were
good homeopaths).

What those MD's had learned in university/medical school hardly shows
any resemblance to what is taught to-day - be it in medical school, in
naturopathic or chiropractic schools, in nurses' training.

IF we want to assert that to them their medical knowledge was useful,
we should have to teach what was taught at their times.

Which again would be hard to do, since the teachings changed to a
very great and basic degree every 30 years or so.
Not, if there is any guarantee that at $ 300,- the patient is cured in
one shot. But as long as the rate of cure of a homeopath is best-kept
secret, it may very well be that at $ 300,- for 1st appointment
there may still be 20 further follow-ups at $ 150,- a piece.

(Which has nothing to do with the issue MD/Non-MD)

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Hi -
Thought that he got a honorary MD or something...well whatever the
magistrate was, his work is exemplary and I have no arguments with him-
Whatever is taught in medical schools nowadays is still more relevant
to treating a sick person than what you might get in correspondence
courses in homeopathy and alternative medicine. If you still think
that a formalized course in medicine, pathology and physiology is
irrelevant to homeopathic practice and/ or medical doctors by their
very knowledge in modern medicine are some how missing the essence of
homeopathy that lay people get - God help homeopathy... I do not think
that homeopathic philosophy or practice is so mystical or esoteric
that medical doctors with their insensitive background cannot grab it...

and is it not funny that you can be a mathematician, physicist,
florist or anything that is as distant from medicine as possible- and
still you can attend a correspondence course, some conferences, some
contact classes, buy the Soul of Remedies, a computer software, quote
some delusions, ridicule your local allopath and consider yourself a
Classical Homeopath and start treating patients - whereas a medical
doctor who has probably seen so much suffering and who is immersed in
studying diseases, patients and their treatment , if he/she wants to
learn and pursue Homeopathy cannot become a good prescriber because he
/ she is medically qualified...

Am I missing something here?
Exactly - MD/ Non MD is not the issue here and so should not have
risen here... bad practice is the issue and not whether he is an
ignorant MD or omniscient classical homeopathist...

And my point was raised not to criticize lay practitioners/
non-medical homeopaths- I trained under 2 excellent such people ( as I
have previously stated in this forum) and owe most of my knowledge to
them- but to dispute that MDs are kind of second-class homeopaths

Rotten apples can be from anywhere not just from AMA...

Hi H.
I think it can be - depending on how you do homeopathy. You can treat
a case say "viral hepatitis of whatever viral origin"
in a homeopathically excellent manner by individualizing after the
diagnosis and taking into account the general/constitutional possibly
miasmatic picture of the patient (and/or whatever else). In order to
do so you should be able to diagnose "viral hepatitis" or, if you
depend on a MD for the diagnosis (most patients of homeopaths are also
patients of allopath MD's) you should know as much as possible about
viral hepatatis [x], whether MD or not.

You can also prescribe the way Hahnemann, v. Boenninghausen and the
homeopaths did who had never heard yet of virus and of viral hepatitis
and did not trust the medical knowledge of the respective times to
boot (lucky, or they might have bled the patient to death as the
allopath MD's did at Hahnemann's time). That is by similarity of the
symptoms of the patient to some remedy. For that - in order to be as
good as they were - you logically CANNOT need to-day's medical
knowledge, since those homeopaths did not have it.

There is no way to get away from that logic.

I had the same discussion on the German list. Most of the people
thought I was crazy , I guess (in order for a licence to practice
homeopathy in Germany you do need quite a bit of to-day's medical
knowledge, so the professional homeopaths there are quite prejudiced
in favour:-) ) and one of them, whom I think quite a lot of, told me
so - but it seems neither he nor anyone else was able to show me where
this logic is wrong (I specifically asked them to do so).
They may - at least it is harder for them. In medical school they are
not taught to see the "whole picture", nor in hospitals - and by the
time they get into private practice they have been conditioned to see
only the specific illness, or possibly nowadays the psycho-somatic
possibility (my best friend died because of this latter - died earlier
than otherwise anyhow) but hardly ever the somato-psychic aspect and
the inter-relations or organs, endocrine system etc.

I know very well that many MD's do overcome this handicap and are
excellent homeopaths - but it is a handicap.

ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

if you

Diagnosis whether it helps in selecting the remedy or not, definitely
helps in assessing the condition and prognosis. We as homeopaths are
safe now since most of the conditions we treat have been already
diagnosed and so when you get the patient all you need to do is google
and find about the condition. Still knowing about the pathology and
pathophysiology helps in understanding the symptoms, gives a context
for our prescribing. WHen you are looking for rare and peculiar how
would you know something is rare and peculiar if you do not know what
is common for a given condition and what is not?
Was that Holmes or someone who said "Homeopaths would treat a chinaman
for jaundice because his skin is yellow"? That is the reason we need
a context.
Hering's Guiding Symptoms has such a wealth of clinical material and
observations that even mentioning that you do not have to go by those
sounds absurd.

I understand that remedies are being chosen with pendulums, chakras,
face analysis, meditations etc. etc. Still any science is about
repeatability, verifiability by others. Using that measure none of the
other methods stand out.
What you are suggesting is throwing the baby and the bath tub out with
the bath water-
Show me even one sentence where Hahnemann said do not train as an MD
or where Hering made any comments like that. In fact Hahnemann had
suggested that all Homeopathy students go thru training and become MDs.

Hahnemann also talks about Asiatic cholera and scarlet fever etc.
when he talks about treating them. Once again it is not diagnosis but
the abuse of diagnosis that we need to protect against.

Diagnosis helps in case taking, managing the case, prognosis etc. We
might not want it to the same extent an allopath does ( since our
treatment does not depend on that solely) but it is important
nevertheless.

Why do you think we have clincal prescriber books by Clarke,
Lilienthal and also so many Physiological materia medica?
They may - at least it is harder for them. In medical school they are

I disagree-
It is not a handicap for the aforesaid reasons- it is a source of
knowledge that they carry - they need a change in perspective- they
need to understand that they need to go beyond the physical symptoms
and signs and get a gestalt- if you think about that even many
"classicals" do not get it...
Like who? How many? Even the ones who do not have medical knowledge
thru medical curriculum have become knowledgeable by self-study etc.
THey realize that one better understand what one is dealing with -
this is not palmistry or numerology -

You still need to deal with the somatic part of it even if you are so
adept at the psychic part of it...
No - just misunderstood everywhere...