Minutus

Hi, all:

It's another animal case. A big Labrador was stung by a yellowjacket
back in August. When he started exhibiting discomfort, the owner gave
him three Benedryls and took him to the vet, but upon arrival he
seemed back to normal, except for a large welt on his chest, which
hung around for a week or so. About two weeks later he started having
weakness in his rear legs. The lack of coordination and weakness
became gradually worse. Now, out of the blue, the owner, who has a
little knowledge of acutes, somehow made a connection with the sting,
and decided to try giving him Apis. The first dose, a 30c dry pellet,
within ten minutes caused him to be able to rise and walk enough to
relieve his bowels, where before the dose he was unable to stand. His
strength continued to increase for the next four hours or so.

When he started to weaken, an MS dose was given, and more improvement
ensued. This morning he exhibited more signs typical of a sting, with
trembling and pale gums. Another MS dose turned this around and gave
him even better movement lasting all day. HIs movement continues to
improve, and he is able to hold his tail up once again and to turn in
tight circles without falling.

I'm thinking that the Benedryl suppressed the natural symptoms and
drove the life force to express worse, but related, symptoms of
weakness and paralysis. Now, it seems, the Apis is helping deal with
those, and other more superficial symptoms are returning to be dealt
with. To my inexperienced eye, Apis has all the symptoms exhibited
so far.

I'd appreciate any feedback on what we're seeing. He's a healthy mid-
aged dog on an excellent diet and fairly free of insult and obvious
chronic disease. I did not advise the Apis initially, but have passed
on information from the MMs and discussed it with the owner.

Thanks,

ginny

Ginny, that's marvelous! I remember reading a similar case years ago
in... I think one of the h'c magazines, about a man who had an
unfortunate encounter with a hive and was stung many times, became
anaphylactic (if I remember right), treated conventionally, and I think
pretty much as you've described here--seemed alright at first, but then
became paralyzed and extremely ill. I *think* the remedy given in that
case too was Apis, with the same sort of result as you've described.
(whew!)

I suppose these are examples of the principle that symptoms are the
body's *best* attempt at dealing with the trauma, and when the poisons
were not allowed to be sequestered at skin level for elimination, they
instead were kept in the system to do further damage. Sobering, huh...

But I wonder why it is that most people seem to do alright with
Benadryl treatment, while others (thankfully few!) go this route
instead? Anyone have thoughts about that "why"? Of course one
possibility is that folks who *seem* to have done fine, have actually
paid a price; OTOH usually there's no *discernible* price, so far as
I've seen, and in the magazine's case the "suppressive" treatments were
also apparently life-saving, so ??
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, yes, I absolutely believe there is always a price to deal with
later. But life must be saved, however one does it. My friend says
she would have gone with just Apis originally if she thought of it,
but she more or less panicked, understandably. The more aware we are
of what can possibly happen, the sooner we can treat the aftereffects
of allopathic suppression, but as David says, a dead man needs no
remedies, so you do what you need to do.

ginny

Once again we need to understand this in terms of interaction. Not all
people who take homeopathic medicines for proving produce proving
symptoms. Even for proving potencies you need to have a predisposing
constitution. That is the same case in reacting with anaphylaxis. That
is also the case when "suppression" causes problems later on. Not all
people who get conventional treatment end up with severe chronic
symptoms later on. It is how an individual interacts with a particular
drug / poison/ suppression.

We also should not lose sight of the fact that for every one of these
conditions that the System takes to a symptomatic level there are
thousands others that our system is able to throw off without any
symptoms and mostly without any outside help.

Such yellowjacket attacks etc. might happen naturally to animals. Not
all of them get treatment , conventional or homeopathic. Does the mud
bath etc. that the animals take ( for example elephants) - do these
suppress if they had a bite or something. I would think there would be
a rare animal which might have such an idiosyncratic reaction (
interaction) to even mud...

I have seen suppression from the most innocuous of external
applications where after treatment the symptoms returned mildly and
the patient improved remarkably after that...
-- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken wrote:

Our adaptive mechanisms are dealing with suppression every second of
our lives, not least from our own minds. I liken it to pushing your
finger into a balloon. The rest of the balloon successfully
compensates provided the pressure is not too great or too prolonged.
Suppressive therapy is sometimes the best route imo. I know several
people who would have died prematurely without it. I know a few cases
where, horrors or horrors, even major tranquilisers were a godsend.
The organism's ability to bounce back from temporary, sometimes
necessary, suppression is remarkable. Sometimes we need to give it
help to do so and may vital people need no help at all. Even
vaccination is tolerated succesfully by many imo (not that Im in
favour). When the balance between the organisms abilty to cope and
the intensity of the suppressive influence is tipped we pay the sort
of prices we are all aware of. One of the best services we offer the
public is our ability to recognize and treat the effects of
suppression, both subtle and gross, that go unacknowledged by the
allopaths. However we also need to be balanced in our approach to
saving lives.

I would never have written this 20 years ago and probably would have
got quite angry if id seen a fellow homeopath make such
statements.........

Thanks Robin and Hahnemannian,
I guess I should clarify--what I was specifically curious about is
whether there might be ways to "guess" which people are more apt to
perhaps have trouble from something like Benadryl (or other OTCs), in
similar ways that we can make some reasonable guesses about which might
be more prone to aggravate, or react badly to high potency, or have
obvious trouble from vaccination, etc. I'm certainly aware of the
issues around suppression...

A picky point--Robin, I'd like to push the distinction between
suppression (drives the disorder to a deeper level) and palliation
(temporarily alleviates the problem, but no movement toward cure).
Sometimes the difference is subtle (and sometimes what *looks* like
long-term suppression is actually just "the disease following its
natural course", because the medicines/remedies are not curing), and
other times not!

I heartily agree that one of our great benefits is the concept of
suppression! And IMO having it in the context of those others
(palliation on the one hand, and "progression of the disease" on the
other hand) gives us another powerful advantage, in being able to
understand what is happening, and the possible reasons and responses.

What is it you would not have written 20 years ago--that sometimes
allopathic meds are a useful step? I agree. I too have started
from a point of not wanting to say it, yet have to agree that sometimes
you just have to use the best thing available, and sometimes "the best"
is *not* available, but other things are, which will serve! While I
love the *idea* of being a purist, well, I've had a few chances to
choose whether I preferred to be / have a dead purist or a live
"mongrel". So... Woof-woof! But, I am still learning, and
still aiming to do the best I can. I hope the Ghost of Hahnemann can
forgive me (smile).
Best,
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin- You got it right 100%. As I mentioned in this forum before -
one of my friends - a homeopath with lots of experience and
qualification- said that in high fever he allows them to take a dose
or two of paracetamol to bring down the fever and then administers the
indicated remedy. He says that high fever itself is an obstacle to
cure and first take care of that symptomatically and when body is not
fighting the high fever give the remedy so that the next paroxysm does
not come....we all know how in high fever the vital force just
consumes medicines and we might have to repeat much more frequently
than otherwise

Our systems survive thru so many onslaughts- of course we do not want
to add more to it with heroic doses of harmful medicines -but there is
a season and reason for any thing...

-- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "robin9168" wrote:
actually

I guess I should clarify--what I was specifically curious about is

It would mostly be guesswork - even here what could trouble at one
time might be tolerated at another time...In some cases yes we could -

Yeah the difference is too subtle- I would say palliation ( intended
or not) leads to suppression where other factors contribute to it...
If we agree that Cure is not suppressing - so anything that only
partially acts ( which I would think is 90% homeopathic
prescriptions)are palliatives- most our prescriptions are "similars"
- palliatives when we select them - in a way ( since none of the
prescriptions is 100% covering all the symptoms of the patient and are
given with the belief - since it covers the core symptoms, mentals and
generals, 3 legged stool, central delusion etc.- it should cover the
rest of the symptoms ) and also due to the physical / practical
impossibility of carrying out provings to the extent where ALL the
symptoms ( including physical changes) can be created in a proving -
by definition we can only prescribe similars. That they become
simillimum - depends on vital force and how close we are able to come
near the target. As I have said before - it is like trying to open a
lock- the exact key is the simillimum - but thieves use their master
keys - some locks even open with hair pins-

and this is the reason so many of our diverse methods still find a
similar or simillimum ( keynotes, delusions, vital sensations,
kingdoms, periodic and dining tables, pendulums, Herscu's, miasms or
whatever) because the vital force takes even this partial help and
turns it into a cure - so that we may strut around saying we are the
classical "classical" prescribers

but any ways-

what we are using is something that we think will cure - we will know
only after the fact - it might be the correct one or sometime it gets
stuck and not only we cannot open that lock - we have made sure mostly
nothing can work after that - ( combinations or medicinal abuse or
whatever)...or we are spoiling the case and we call it suppression-
that is - the medicine was too different from the disease and it is
not mimicking the disease and we are - instead of being just a little
different to make a difference-now too different from the natural
disease and may be just too close to just a few symptoms and might
screw up the picture...
far
treatments

At 02:05 AM 10/7/2006 -0000, you wrote:

This is inexcusable - I don't care how much experience or qualification he
has.

He says that high fever itself is an obstacle to

a fever us an obstacle to cure? How absolutely ridiculous.
The fever has a purpose just as ANY symptom has a purpose - helping to
dissipate the disturbance and your friend the so-called homeopath
SUPPRESSES it and stresses the liver with paracetamol.

and first take care of that symptomatically and when body is not

Absolutly bull!
Sorry, this is crap

The right remedy will address all and the fever will come down as the cure
happens

FEVERS ARE NOT BAD
Let's suppress every symptom then and then give the right remedy
Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
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--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Sheri Nakken wrote:

Yikes. I think suppressing fevers is not good and is responsible for
keeping acutes going for much longer than they would if the fever was
allowed to do its work and managed properly. Fevers will rarely go
down dramatically after a homeopathic remedy in my experience. When I
was a novice I was dissapointed at first and saw it as a failure of my
precribing or even of homeopathy. The real reason was that the fever
was not supposed to dissappear. In rare cases it can run out of
control and become dangerous so we should not be complacent, but
generally Paracetamol, especially for children, is one of the most
overused medicines out there. It is my belief, although only a belief,
that febrile convulsions are casued more by the suppression of fevers
than anything else.