Minutus

The reason for this email is to ask your experience in working with elderly individuals on meds. An all too common problem.

A current case involves a 75 year old female for whom Nat Mur appears to be the best suited remedy for the total case. Given her current low vitality, we started with 12c in water and suggested it be sipped 4 times during the day for a few days, then call me. She reported no 'big' improvement, but family reported there was a wee bit of improvement. She is frustrated at the lack of immediate changes - but I think her level of frustration links back to anxiety and depression caused by the meds. Then 30c was tried. Unfortunately, her MD raised her dosage of meds and she was too sleepy to remember to take the remedy after the one dose, but she conveyed the impression the single 30 had no effect. A single dose of 200C about 2 weeks later had no obvious effect. Now she is more depressed, more sleepy, more unsure of her footing when walking, and her original symptoms are more pronounced - all of which I believe can be traced to the increased meds - but I am the only one with this point of view.

What is needed is a way to give her a boost, and clear her mind a bit. I think once she is more her old self she will see the problem and work with her MD to reduce (and I pray eliminate) these meds [she was a fiesty and determined individual so I'm hopeful she could regain that ability to take control of the situation]. I am unfamiliar with using higher potencies with my elderly cases, and rather rarely use them in other cases.

To bring this back to an appropriately academic discussion - In such situations [long term effects of meds and low vitality] do you think a higher potency would be appropriate to give the needed boost? or another remedy? Ideally I would be more patient - but in my elderly cases, I sometimes feel the meds will kill them before homeopathy can help them.

Thank you in advance for sharing your experiences.

Donna

I'm feeling exceptionally frustrated. Once I saw mostly elderly with long standing long list of meds that hindered remedies from working effectively - or just slowed the process. Now - seems like everyone I see has a medicine cabinet full - and more 'over the counter' junk they don't even consider as meds. Part of the problem is they only seek out 'alternative' care after they have exhausted the 'traditional' circuit. I get them when the 'traditional' group has given them over to 'management' and has sapped all hope of a cure, as well as their vital energy, yet they are still unable to part with their doctors or pharmaceuticals, and legally, I can not suggest they stop - only that they 're-evaluate' them. Sorry for the rant - I just watched a family loose a beautiful young girl who had been cut up and poisoned (by MDs) and I am between anger and despair. They brought her to me a few months ago - and I believe homeopathy helped her and the family - but she was still being poisoned by chemo drugs the doctors acknowledged would not help - but refused to stop giving her - since they felt they needed to do something.

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I tend to give a water potency to take daily with succussion until there is an improvement or agg. I say success 5 times and take 5 drops. I find the elderly are used to taking medication from their doctor and this way of prescribing is what they expect and like. I do understand your frustration.

Rochelle
Registered Homeopath, EFT(Advanced)Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk

Do you find the meds are preventing the remedy from acting (at all, partially, somewhat)? or slowing the perceptible improvement? or interfering with the individuals ability to perceive?

While I would easily give instructions to take 'until you see improvement then stop' with someone not on meds - what I am finding in some of these cases is that a very well indicated remedy is either not perceived as having any effect - or very minimal - and I don't know if the meds are interfereing - or simply making it so the repeat must go longer - or if a potency change is appropriate? A complication occurs frequently when the improvement from a remedy is not fast enough - and the allopathic doc has time to make changes (usually this means more meds). Guess this often fuels a desire (on my part) for the individual to perceive some improvement quickly - so they stay away from the allopathic doc long enough for homeopathy to have a chance to work it's wonder.

Do you tend to stay low potency with elders in your practice (we should make it clear we are discussing elders of low vital energy)?

This is a great topic!! I'm looking forward to learning people's
experiences with this situation.

I find that the biggest problem with most allopathic meds is that they
obscure symptoms central to the case so it often takes a lot longer to find
the deep-acting remedy. Really high impact meds, such as chemotherapy, also
make it impossible for anyone to tell what the impact of a remedy is because
their own effects are so overwhelming that the patient can perceive nothing
else.

Once the needed remedy has become clearer, based often on the modalities and
characteristics of acute exacerbations that occur, it tends to work very
clearly, leaving no doubt that it is the correct remedy.

Knowing ahead of time that you will need some time to find the right remedy,
through probably several experiments, it helps to educate the patient up
front about this, and also to suggest a six-month commitment followed by an
evaluation and a decision about whether or not to continue.

Generally, during that time, even if you haven't found THE right remedy,
you've found a remedy or two that have helped somewhat -- often quite a
bit-- and the person will be intrigued enough to want to continue after the
six months is up.

When the remedy becomes clear in these circumstances, it's really clear, and
the reaction is immediate and gratifying. Six months is probably a 50-50
mark for finding the remedy (for me -- maybe I'm really obtuse and most
people would find it more quickly, I don't know. But usually during that
period the key symptom that will unlock the case comes up for the first time
in a follow-up interview or in an acute exacerbation. Or it becomes clear as
a return of old symptoms -- often having been mentioned as a minor symptom
in the initial interview and then becoming more and more central as time
goes on and it persists even when other symptoms change or improve. ).

I'm content during that time if I can keep the person from seeking a change
in allopathic meds -- when the meds change, the whole picture changes, you
don't know what's from meds or from the remedy, and you end up starting
over. Putting such changes on hold is part of the six month agreement.

Rosemary

I always start off low 6 or 30 but if I find a remedy is working and then has to be repeated often I will go up a potency. I find 200C works quite well given like this. I discourage "going to the doctor" at every little set back and explain that things may get a little worse before they get better.With the elderly it is very difficult to talk of cure, especially in the very allopathically compromised but if we are making their life more bearable this is good.

At the moment I have one lady age 72 who came to me very depressed (aetiology problems within the family) + panic attacks . She has done very well on firstly Carc 30- one dose + her 3 trees as she calls them - Bach Flower Combo of White chestnut, red chestnut and Elm., next on Lyco 30 for presenting Sx of burping, reflux and poor libido, the panic attacks had gone and sleep improved. Next time the presenting problem most apparent was an itching vulva, knee Sx and tooth sensitivity + not being able to speak her mind; her libido had improved and she hadn't taken any Gaviscon and I gave Staph 30 + her 3 trees which she loves taking 4 times a day. Next time she came I felt the Staph had done only a little , her "waterworks" had improved and she complained bitterly about her memory, walking hunched up and feeling as if she was prone to falls. She felt she had done a slide backwards. "I am forgetful and feel outside my body, floaty abd listless. I got a feeling for Alum and gave her a 30C + a WP . She took the Rx in front of me and after I gave it to her she said "I have had relations with dementia and am frightened this is what is happening" . 5 mins after the Rx she said "I feel lighter as if my eyes are opening." The following month " I have been a lot better until the last week. In the last week on my instructions she had refilled the bottle I gave her with mineral water and continued succussing and taking the Rx. I gave her an Alum 200 - one dose + her 3 trees. I think I am seeing her again in the next week or 2 . As well as this I am using EFT on her about he family problems which are a maintaining cause - she awaiting a court case on this and she is also using this at home. Yes she is still taking the anti depressants because the doctor has said she has to until the court case is over.

Not a very good example but then every case is different. When she first came she was on the anti depressant, a drug for cystitis, Losec for her hiatus hernia and had just finished a course of antibiotics for a cough and chest complaint. Now she is just on the antidepressants. I find Bach Flower Rx work well with homeopathic Rx and do not interfere but I am sure others will feel differently about this. I use them as a crutch for patients I think need them.

Rochelle
Registered Homeopath, EFT(Advanced)Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk

Irrespective of age - if someone is on allopathic medication, I use LMs

Rgds
Soroush

Rochelle,
Thank you for such a lovely example. So delighted to learn your remedy selections worked so well 'through' the allopathic drugs. Do you feel there are specific drugs that are easier to work 'through' with remedies (and perhaps specific remedies that work better 'through' the drugs) - or was her vital energy high enough to respond to the remedy 'through' the drugs? Or do you feel it is the 5 drops per dose (plus 5 succussions) repeated over time?
Again, Thank you for sharing your experience.

Difficult questions as everyone is an individual. One thing I always ask a new patient who comes on allopathic drugs is would they be able to tell if the remedy I give has done anything despite being on the drugs. If 'yes' I will take them on and this is so far what they have all said i.e. allopathic drugs are not doing the business and that is why they come to us. Another thing which I think is very important especially when talking about antidepressants and that is that they come off them VERY slowly- far slower than their allopathic doctor advises. First I will halve the dose on alternate days for a couple of weeks and then on all days. Then again half if possible or go on a lower dose and alternate to begin with. I am talking about taking 6 weeks to come off them. In my experience this is the only way to do it successfully - less chance of a sudden low and it gives a lot of confidence to the patient. The 5 drop dose is just what I do I am sure that 2 drops would work just as well!! Succussion is the most important thing.

Rochelle
Registered Homeopath, EFT(Advanced)Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk

There is no doubt in this case (and many other cases) many of the problems come from medications - however, if the underlying symptoms are not being recognizably helped by the 'alternatives', then she (and her doctor) feel the meds must continue. OK - I will never understand the philosophy the doctors are following which seems to be - 'if meds don't work - increase dosage and add other meds' and the other thing is they don't seem to think the elders are capable of healing - so they just muddle about - dismissing drug side effects as the 'normal' effects of aging - and give more meds to 'treat' those side effects as symptoms.

Hence my questions about remedies working 'through' meds. This is but one of many such cases. If I could get a good 'movement' in the case with reduction of the original symptoms and improvements in mental clarity - I believe she (and many others) would stand up and stop the meds (or at least be more pro-active in dealings with the Dr.). I was particularly looking for experience from others in achieving this sort of movement in similar cases (over medicated and low vitality) - if lower potencies were more likely to 'break through' or a single higher potency, possibly the use of a good old polycrest?????

Aside 1: While I always suggest individuals take an advocate with them to the Dr. - not everyone can. I have asked her to write down everything and have it in front of her at the Dr. visits - but she says he is so busy he never reads past the first item.

Aside 2: In a few cases where the remedy has given wonderful results - (despite the meds having been tried for 4 or 5 years with no results) - I have actually heard Dr.s say 'well the medicine finally kicked in'.

And they say "don't stop taking it!!!"

Rochelle
Registered Homeopath, EFT(Advanced)Practitioner
www.southporthomeopathy.co.uk

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