Minutus

Any one who has information on the approach to Rabies treatment from a
non germ perspective and does not mind talking to an email

please respond.

Experiences from any vets will be highly welcome...

A member has asked about how to deal with the problem of getting a
lick from a potential rabid animal. Since there is a question of the
infectious origin of Rabies what are the measures that could be
taken...basically what would be advice?

Is there any current and updated information available apart from
Allen's nosodes on the management of Rabies from our perspective that
is different from allopathic approach? Are there actual cases that
have been treated with this?

I have seen 2 homeopaths die after taking Lyssin after a dog bite-
they were not protected by it. They did not follow 6th edition and
that might be the reason - they followed the 4th and took dry doses of
200th potency. One of them I knew very well and know him for an
excellent homeopath. I have also worked in a rabies ward as a medical
doctor and poison or not I will always advise my patients to go for a
course of vaccination - because I have seen the way the untreated
people die horribly.

I will advice vaccination just in case because according to my
understanding if the disease develops it is mostly fatal...

Of course I am willing to be convinced that there might be alternative
approaches in homeopathy that are more effective and treat the
disease even after it develops.

Input would be very much appreciated...
1) What is rabies and how do we get it?
2) How does a dog / wild animals get it?
3) Is the mechanism biochemical or what?
4) Is the disease of the humans the same as that in animals?\
5) How does it spread after a rabid dog bite to humans? Or does it not?
6) When do we start treating the person if he is bitten by a known
case of rabies?
7) How long do we wait?

8) What do we give? Of course people have fear and may be one of the
fear remedies might work- if there is no fear - for example when the
rabid dog is a little pup - what do we do?
Give the constitutional? Since at that time the patient does not have
any active rabid symptoms what would be the next step...Let us say at
this time the patient does not have any chronic complaints either.

9)If the patient starts showing active rabid symptoms - is quarantine
necessary or not?

10) What should the dog owner do? Put it down? Watch? Treat it? And
what measures should he / she take to protect or is nothing necessary?

There are two sections in The World Travellers' (sic) Manual of Homoeopathy
(Revised and Enlarged Edition 1999) by Dr. Colin B. Lessell, MB, BS(Lond), MRCS
(Eng), LRCP (Lond), FBHomDA, DDFHom, HonFHMA (UK) quoted below:

Page 21: Rabies
This disease is usually contracted as the result of an animal bite. Correct
cleansing of the wound is of the utmost importance in its prevention. Orthodox
pre-exposure immunization by injection is available for high-risk travellers,
such as zoologists, hunters, explorers, and botanists. It should not, however,
be used for low-risk travellers, since rare but serious side-effects have
been reported. Conventional post-exposure immunization techniques by injection
are also available for those who have been bitten, and must be considered as
highly important in disease prevention.
Where conventional pre-exposure immunization is unavailable,
Hydrophobinum 30 once weekly may be considered. Where conventional post-exposure
immunization is unavailable, consider Hydrophobinum 30 once daily for at least 4
months.

page 180: Animal bites (non-venomous)
Whenever the skin has been punctured by the teeth of a mammal, whether
domestic or wild, referral to a physician is important. The greatest risk, other
than haemorrhage and traumatic damage, is that of rabies (see also Section 3),
followed by tetanus, and septicaemia ('blood-poisoning'). Rabies is not a risk,
however, in Great Britain, Eire, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan,
Antarctica, or Scandinavia (including Iceland and Finland, but excluding Denmark).
The main vectors (carriers) of rabies are foxes, skunks, domestic dogs and
cats, and, in the Americas, Trinidad and Jamaica, bats (especially vampire bats,
but also insectivorous or frugivorous species).
Following a bite, however minor, carry out the following measures
immediately, and transport for medical advice:
(1) Clean the wound thoroughly with soap and running water for 5
minutes. Then irrigate thoroughly with 40% (or stronger) alcohol, such as gin or
vodka.
(2) Control bleeding by pressure, and the internal administration of:
Arnica 30 1/4h
(3) Apply a loose dressing, and give both of the following internal
remedies:
(a) Hydrophobinum 30 24h
(b) Ledum 30 12h
[for convenience, alternate doses of Ledum may be
given at the same time as the dose of Hydrophobinum]
In the absence of medical advice, these must be continued for at least 4
months.
(4) Should wound infection occur, as witnessed by the presence of pus,
continue with prescription (3), but give, in addition, both of the following
internal remedies (they may be given together):
(a) Gunpowder 6 6h
(b) Pyrogen 30 6h
The infected wound itself should be cleaned with a mild antiseptic, such as
Rose Water (triple) or vinegar. Loose wet dressings of the same may be applies.
Non-mammalian non-venomous bites, such as those from the crocodile,
carry similar risks to those stated with regard to mammals, with the exception of
rabies. Hence, they may be treated similarly, but the remedy Hydrophobinum may
be excluded.

In the preface to the book:
Furthermore, should any of my readers have any new or corroboratory
observations with regard to homoeopathic or botanic (herbal) treatment of exotic
diseases, I would be pleased to receive them via the publishers (please address
your comments to: Dr. C.B. Lessell, c/o C. W. Daniel Co. Ltd, 1 Church Path,
Saffron Walden, Essex CB10 1JP, England.)
One could personally write him and ask if anyone has any old/new protocols
that worked/did not work or any addtional information since his book was
published in 1999 that he could offer on how to treat rabies and inquire what he
would recommend if licked by a possible rabid puppy.
All the best,
Linda
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Hi Hahnemannian,
The only rabies cure *I* have ever heard of is in Clarke's dictionary,
under Agav-a--are you familiar with that? "Agave is an unproved
remedy. The juice of it fermented is the Mexican intoxicating beverage
called 'Pluque.' The lant has a local reputation as a remedy for
hydrophobia.
A boy developed the classical symptoms of hydrophobia four and a half
months after being bitten: ... [finally he got to the point that]
swallowing was impossible, restraint had to be used to prevent him
biting his nurses in the hospital, when, as a last resources, a piece
of Agave was offered to the boy by the doctor in attendance ... To the
astonishment of all, the boy reached for it and ate it greedily, almost
without chewing. By evening a decrease in the violence of the nervous
attacks was manifest, tho they remained as frequent as before. The
improvement was slow but continued. On the fourth day he took some
nourishment, but also continued chewing agave and swallowing the juice.
On the fifth day he recovered consciousness but still demanded agave.
On the eighth day he said he did not want any more as "it tasted too
bitter and caused a burning in the mouth." He had no further symptoms
of the disease."

Since you have had the unhappy opportunity of seeing people with
rabies, perhaps you will have a chance to try this, and let us know
what happens! But every homeopath I have ever heard address the
question of "what to do" has been of the same opinion as you--get the
shots, then if necessary do the "clean-up" afterwards.

In the case of Venkat's lick, tho--if the puppy had only *just* been
bitten, presumably the disease had not yet developed, and not yet
become communicable? Or is the incubation time too variable to depend
on...
Shannon
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For those who may be interested --- from Parimal Banerji
ARSENICUM ALBUM 200

GROUP A - X
Dog-bite injuries.
Many cases of bite from rabid dogs or other animals have
been exclusively treated without a single case of
developing rabies, when other persons received bite from
the same rabid dog and got the rabies.
Dose : Arsenic 200 and Stramonium 200 given alternately every three hours so long awake, for seven days and thereafter every twelve hours alternately for another seven days has been used successfully in the cases where the dog was rabid.
Where the dog is not rabid or the other persons bitten by the same dog within earlier ten days, have not turned rabid, then these two drugs are repeated every twelve hours alternately, for the benefit of doubt, for ten days.
Note: In the villages and towns within the radius of about 150 kilometers of our centre at Mihijam, people have got so much faith in the treatment and services of Maharshi Pareshnath, that they did not hesitate to place the rabid dog-bitten cases under us, where exclusive Homoeopathic treatment had given them full protection, and more dependability The treatment of rabies has also been done with this drug, though the cases were very few brought to us, and it was very difficult to feed them these drugs. I have injected the drugs into their muscles. The result was successful in only :very few cases where rabies has already developed and yet much work is necessary to comment anything about it now.

--------------------------------
BELLADONNA 3

GROUP A - IV
Delirium.
Jumping out of bed with fear or fury.
Talks much deliriously and irrelevantly.
Consciousness entirely gone and does not recognise persons or even his parents.
Biting and striking or beating people around.
Dose Only one dose improves, but may require a few doses every one hour.
Note Jumping out of bed and biting people or beating people around, are the characteristics of Belladonna delirium. May be found in insanity or rabies, where it is effective, but not in fever.
GROUP A - V
Delirium.
Violent, so much so, that (he or she) should be held by strong men, so that cannot move to attack any one near by. Spits on persons who hold. Eyes injected and protruding, pupils dilated, may be staring and fixed. Giving a true picture of violent fury and rage. Grinding of teeth in rare case.
Wants to run away or jump out.
More found in insanity and rabies.
Dose Two drops every half an hour if not responding by a dose.
Note Such cases have definitely responded much better to five or seven drops of Stramonium Ix or even 6th cent. in many a case. Dr. Hering has found those symptoms of Bell. as verified but he has not mentioned any potency anywhere in this case and he has not mentioned whether fever or other concurrent symptoms were there or not. In my research it was Belladonna 3 which had shown results, but not better than Hyoscyamus 6 or Stramonium 6 as the case may be.

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S hannon wrote:

Hi Hahnemannian,
The only rabies cure *I* have ever heard of is in Clarke's dictionary,
under Agav-a--are you familiar with that? "Agave is an unproved
remedy. The juice of it fermented is the Mexican intoxicating beverage
called 'Pluque.' The lant has a local reputation as a remedy for
hydrophobia.
*****Pulque is the fermented juice and Tequila is the double distilled version.

And Agave nectar, is pretty nice as well --- comes in light or dark and is used it seems mainly by raw foodists as a sweetener --- I guess I will know when I have had too much --- I may become snappy I have not heard from my rawfood friends who use Agave of any strange symptoms as yet, but will specifically ask those who use it regularly if they have notices anything.

Used to be classified in the Liliaceae family, but now given its own group Agavaceae which also includes Yucca, another popular 'health' food.
Robyn
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I wondered if this was the same Agave--yes, the "nectar" is delicious!

Shannon
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NM Choudhuri states that

" it has been used in similar instances on similar symptoms and numerous
cures have been recorded as effected by Agave."

A study on Materia Medica CHOUDHURI N. M.
Materia medica

Agave americana

It is also called the American Aloe.
The tincture is prepared from fresh chopped leaves.
This remedy has not been given a thorough scientific proving but as it is
reputed to have a great curative value in hydrophobia, it will not do to
leave it out of our Materia Medica.
We have a nice instance of a cure of hydrophobia with Agave reported in
"The Homoeopathic Recorder." A boy developed symptoms of hydrophobia four
months after the bite.
Quarrelsomeness, inability to swallow, desire to bite anybody near about,
were symptoms that were thoroughly relieved by the boy partaking in crude
juice of the plant that was simply thrown at him.
Since then it has been used in similar instances on similar symptoms and
numerous cures have been recorded as effected by Agave.
Pocket Manual of Homeopathic Materia Medica BOERICKE W.
Remedies

Agave americana

(century plant)
* Indicated in stomachace, and painful erections in gonorrhoea.
* Strangury.
* Hydrophobia.
* Scurvy; countenance pale, gums swollen and bleeding, legs covered with
dark purple blotches, swollen, painful and hard.
* Appetite poor; bowels constipated.
Relationship
- Compare : Anhalonium; Lyssin; Lach.
Dose - Tincture
Pointers to the Common Remedies TYLER M. L.
Fear of insanity: diverse terrors

Stramonium

-Fears: he will loses his senses: that his lips will grow together: of
suffocation: of falling: of everything falling on her (comp. Arg. nit.).
-Frightful fancies: face expresses fright and terror (Acon., Opium, Lac
can.).
-Sees more horrifying images at his side than in front of him, and they all
occasion terror.
-Sees frightful figures, cats, rats, mice, dogs (Bell., Abs.). Springs away
with signs of terror.
-Delirium of fear as though a dog were attacking him (Verat., comp.
-Bell.).
-Asked her mother not to leave her, as something was going to hurt her
(Valer., comp. Arn.).
-Mania for light and company: cannot be alone.
-Hydrophobia (Bell., Hyos., Lyssin, Agave).
-Child wakes terrified, knows no one, screams with fright, clings to those
near (Calc.).
-Imagines he is alone all the time: tries to escape (Bell.).
-Is afraid.
Sarvadaman Oberoi
http://www.freewebs.com/homeopathy249/
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Can you provide names and details?
A rabies ward? A whole ward? Where is this?>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures@tesco.net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
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Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

I cannot provide names and details.Sorry.

I worked in the rabies ward in India at Madras Medical College for a
month internship posting as well as in the tetanus ward.Way back in
1990.Most stressful postings and I still remember the deaths in the
rabies ward. In the month long posting I had 4 admissions and 4 deaths...
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Sheri Nakken wrote: