Minutus

I believe that Sue? makes a fairly valid point regarding possible
ways to prove that homeopathy works or does not work. Whether it
is 'double-blind-placebo or related scientific research method--her
brief explanation of how to fairly evaluate homeopathy in an UNBIASED
way makes sense--and there are other possible methods that would work
as well. I recognize that there are research studies showing that
homeopathy is beneficial yet there does need to be stronger research
studies in order to substantiate homeopathy.

A majority of illnesses/diseases are related to stress, and whether
stress related or not, most illnesses are self-limiting and/or
cyclical--they wax and wane whether there is any treatment or not.
Many patients are unaware of these facts, so when they go to any type
of physician or healer, and when they start to feel better a few days
later they attribute it to the 'pill' they took--this can apply to
pharmaceutical or homeopathic remedy or others--

Now, most people have incredible belief/faith in their allopath and
with their magic pharmaceutical drug--that without any doubt--
allopaths employ a strong placebo effect, whether
intended/acknolwedged by them or not. Many MD's have acknowledged
this publicly and in private--so it is definitely there. Most
allopaths have an ego that prevents them from seeing the plethora of
weaknesses, dangers, and the like in the type of 'healing' they
practice. Many other healers (CAM/altnerative)become so entrenched
in the dogma of the type of healing that they practice that they are
not able to see or acknowledge the limitations/weaknesses of what
they practice. All healers must look beyond their ego, beliefs--
anything--and do what is best for the patient. Integrity at all
times is absolutely necessary.

I am first and foremost a patient, and a patient advocate. I have
spent literally thousands of hours among allopathic 'care', and
slightly less within the CAM community--the inability to recognize
one's own limitations and/or the limitations of their 'healing'
profession is virtually nonexistent--or at least these people do not
share these with the patient--and that is what is most important.

Regarding homeopathy, I without a doubt have had one positive and
profound healing experience with it--it was clearly related to the
remedy. BUT, having spent nearly 1,000 hours reading, and studying
homeopathy, interviewing nearly 100 patients, 2 dozen homeopaths, and
reviewing as many research abstracts or studies as I can--I have yet
to develop a sense of the true scope of homeopathy. Placebo effect--
yes, it definitely is a factor (but not much different than
allopaths), inexperienced homeopaths--absolutely, this is extremely
significant--it can often be extraordrinarily difficult to find the
simililum or simile for that matter...but that leads to another
question: "do homeopaths confuse the similimum with the self-limiting
illness and/or cyclical nature of the illness being treated? How do
you know for sure?

As stated I do believe homeopathy works, but what is its true
scope/reach? What are the strengths and limitations of the science
of homeopathy? If finding the simililum truly cures or improves most
illnesses, and not other events as noted above (and others)--are many
homeopaths not experienced enough to adequately utilize, practice
this art and science?

I love homeopathy--it is beautiful and poetic, and it works---but as
a written article at the end of a recent homeopathic magazine brings
up...is that many homeopat hs are so indoctrined in their beliefs
regarding homeopathy that it almost seems like a 'cult' in some ways--
her words not mine.

I pray that homeopathy works and works as purported--please, please
dear homeopaths---let's prove it scientifically--that should be
completely possible.

Thank you
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Sheri Nakken
wrote:
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ts_not_fun
d_quac
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ts_not_fun
d_quac
caring,
oppression of
of these
from
be
they
been "saved"
their
questioned by
commonsense
tackling
the fact
the
minded,
out the
those of
testable.
for that
diluted so
better. In
the
fraudulent
claim that
programme from
was
effectiveness
perfectly well
you like,
measured. Then
treatment
can
anything it
illness,
people in
basis of
them
do them
whether
happens?
kind have
solution
rub.
instead
lavish time
medicine and

What a breath of fresh air....

The problem is the practice of homeopathy is considered an art by all
the pundits and gurus of homeopathy. Can you measure the esthetics of
art? Eye of the beholder etc. We give more value to the "creativity"
of the practitioner than to the importance of a trusted and methodical
approach... Hollywood creativity needs Oscars -not Nobels....we do not
care for science - you yourself called it poetry-

You quoted your friend who called this is a cult- I call it the "holy
cows of homeopathy" There are a lot of holy cows in homeopathy that
should be have been left to pasture or should have gone into burgers
but which are jealously guarded by a lot of cow boy "pardners".

The problem in giving scientific proof of homeopathy's work is -

1) We do not believe there exists a science in the world that could
prove homeopathy

2) We have not yet defined what homeopathic practice is - is it using
Jungs Analytical Psychology ( the only group apart from
parapsychologists and I Ching practitioners- that still remembers Jung
since clinical psychology has long grown away from him) or Dreams or
Delusions or Numerology or Septenuate Mixtures or Free Association.

3)Homeopathy has become so liberal now that the only thing that
remains is liberating it from "medicine". We are now trying to
reclassify it under Liberal Arts. And we are going to have a new
Organon of Voodooism...
4) We have not decided how to develop our pharmacopea- there are
"meditative provings", dream provings and paranormal provings- we have
not decided which to follow. There are people who just pick up the
periodic table and get to work on it periodically to generate
medicines and we call them pioneers.

5) We have not decided if diagnosis is thru Iris diagnosis, swing of
the pendulum, chakras, face analysis, photo analysis, hair analysis,
palm analysis or miasms.

6) Miasms are the cornerstone of homeopathic approach and the greatest
contribution to the science of medicine we have made ( sic) except
that no one knows what it is except probably one person- nutritional
deficiency, some of the infections, all of the infections, mix of
infections with constitution , all of the above or none of the above.
We will talk of miasms as infections but will not accept modern
infectious disease theory. We will still follow two hundred year old
explanations and quote "the wisdom of the ancients", "homeomeries" now
and then. Ultimately we just go ahead and give what our medicine chest
has.

7)We have so many potencies decimal, centesimal and LM and dry doses
and water doses. We will dilute it to such an extent that no medicine
exists but at the same time say that 1 medicated globule works
differently than 5 globules.

8) If allopaths declare that they will accept homeopathy if we prove
that these medicines work by some method- that itself is enough for us
to run away from that place- we are more afraid of allopaths than we
are afraid of being called Charlatans... We believe that allopaths are
pure evil and have the smile and smirk of Lucifer... In fact there
have been several posts in this forum where we have repeatedly said
that MDs cannot practice Classical homeopathy - since they practice
'reductioniosm" so much that they have reduced the size of their brain
to 2 oz. You can be any one - carpenter, gardener, poet, butcher - and
still learn homeopathy - but not the dreaded MD...it is almost you
have got a very psoric psora - even Sulphur cannot get you out....

9)The only science we recognize is computer science. We cannot
practice without it...all our repertories are in our computers. As
long as we have a finger to type and a mouse to move - we have all the
qualifications in the world to practice "classical" homeopathy and
call all those (stupid) researchers who unfortunately have PhDs and
MPhils as motivated by pharmaceutical interests. We are the only pure
minded in the whole world. ( It must be all the Boenninghausen that we
read). Of course without computers there is no web - so we cannot go
online , google and educate ourselves and convince ourselves we are
better than those MDs.

10)Finally - how dare you question us and cause us so much misery and
discomfort? It means that you are "haughty" and "arrogant" and we
need to give you Lycopodium or Platina. Once we get your vital
sensation report we will tear you to so many vital pieces that you
will not raise these questions. This is what Hahnemann has done in his
Paris Case Books which only I have read in the whole world. Legacy of
the Grand Old Master....

Word of warning-

Please let sleeping dogs sleep... lest you require Lyssinum...
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "prestonfoell" wrote:

Hello hahnemannian2002,

Saturday, May 27, 2006, 1:23:48 PM, you wrote:

h> You quoted your friend who called this is a cult- I call it the "holy
h> cows of homeopathy" There are a lot of holy cows in homeopathy that
h> should be have been left to pasture or should have gone into burgers
h> but which are jealously guarded by a lot of cow boy "pardners".

Loved this email - so good to be able to laugh at ourselves!

--
Best regards,
Fran mailto:FranSheffield@homeopathyplus.com.au

--Hahnemannian2002,

I sincerely enjoyed your posting--it brought many chuckles!

I thank you for taking time to share your remarks--more homeopaths on
this forum should.

I agree that there currently isn't science to prove how homeopathy
works, but various current and hybrid research methods could be put
to use showing that homeopathy is effective....although isolating the
possible factors such as remedy, 'bedside manner'-placebo, etc. would
prove quite difficult. But individualizing remedies by master
homeopaths, then having an independent person giving either placebo
or the suspected 'simililum' would be a start. Would the golden
standard of a randomized double blind study be possible with
homeopathy--probably not, but I am not looking to convince the
allopathic fools that homeopathy works--many patients have yet to be
brought down to their reductionistic way of thinking.

More art than science or the reverse, I'm still on the path of my
journey to find out the depth and breadth or lack there of, of this
awesome (hopefully) science or art.

I don't believe that Lycopodium or Platina or Lyssinum is the
simililum for what ails me--but I know that I must find it in order
to 'cure' my haughtiness or arrogance--less I am only a true patient
advocate.

- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "hahnemannian2002"
wrote:
all
of
methodical
not
the "holy
burgers
using
Jung
or
have
greatest
above.
now
chest
medicine
us
are
brain
and
the
pure
we
go
and
his
of
wrote:
her
UNBIASED
work
that
research
whether
not.
type
days
to
and
acknowledged
of
entrenched
are
have
recognize
not
the
studying
and
yet
effect--
extremely
the
limiting
do
science
most
many
as
brings
ways--
please
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ts_not_fun
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ts_not_fun
NHS
that
nature
mail
will
works;
that
of
Indeed,
of
true
find
(unlike
remedy
them
alternative
it
anything
right
they
of
the
the
give
won't
what
this
homeopathic
effort was
combination of
the
doctors
spare on
just the
real
----

Hi-
Thanks for enjoying; apart from aiming to bring some chuckles to the
readers, I hope that I also conveyed in a way what I think ails
homeopathy today. We do not have a definitive system. I love this
system and know through practice that it is the best available
therapeutics today. But at the same time I see how things are going
in homeopathy -away from a medical and scientific point of view to
an overtly spiritual and psycholigical perspective. This is needed
but only after we have established a scientific and standard
baseline.

There is no standardization either in education, training or
practice guidelines. So any research in homeopathy - not just for
convincing allopaths - is going to be questioned by one group or
other within homeopathic ranks itself. If I select a medicine based
on keynotes in a trial and it fails - someone will question that and
suggest that the failure is because I did not prescribe based
on "core delusions"; and if I give a dry dose in 200 someone will
point out that I am a 4th edition Organon follower and that I need
to be current. All of this is because there is no nationally or
internationally approved standards within homeopathy. So any study
could be faulted from within our ranks itself.
True double-blind randomized study may not be possible but still
some kind of double-blind study should be possible.

The lack of the same is due to faults in both sides- allopaths and
homeopaths. One of the main mistakes homeopaths are doing is siding
with anything that is anti-allopathy. The way to counter allopathy
is not by criticizing allopathy - but by copying some of the
successful ways of that and adapting it to suit our purposes. Not
working against allopathy but along with and along side allopathy-
we need to give to take - How does Allopathy grow? They take the
drugs from whatever system ( mostly herbal) and then convert that
into an allopathic drug...

That is the homeopathic way of succeeding...likes treat and cure
likes...

The one alternative medicine that has some support even in
allopathic circles is acupuncture. Reason? 1) It is non-
pharmacological and so did not get caught up in pharmaceutical
industry radar. 2) It allowed itself to be flexible - you can
practice it according to "yellow emperor's classic of internal
medicine" or just based on allopathic diagnoses. And there is so
much research that has been done in acupuncture that there is
something to quote.
That is something we as homeopaths need to think about.

We also need to realize that if all homeopathic doctors of a whole
country stop working for a week - no patient is going to die because
of this; whereas if all allopathic doctors of even a county/district
were to stop working for a week - people are going to die. Our
contribution is marginal to health care at best; by psychologizing
more and more we are losing relevance in day-to-day medical practice-
in the here and now...
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "prestonfoell"
wrote:
on
put
the
would
placebo
be
this
order
patient
by
esthetics
the "creativity"
do
that
could
remembers
Dreams
Association.
we
the
swing of
analysis,
except
nutritional
old
ancients", "homeomeries"
doses
prove
for
than we
allopaths
there
said
practice
butcher -
you
out....
As
all
and
and
that
cannot
are
misery
we
you
in
Legacy
possible
it
-
would
any
few
apply
allopath
plethora
they
they
what
beliefs--
all
and
their 'healing'
do
important.
and
homeopaths,
have
find
another
How
improves
are
practice
but
beliefs
some
be

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ets_not_fu
n
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ets_not_fu
n
precious
told
kind,
hate
they
have
unfashionable,
years
one
against
closed-
to
(among
be
the
said
types
give
on
and
(it
(the
patients
Now
there's
use
to
better
---
936

Dear Hahnemannian,

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts--it is helpful for me
as a person ('patient') who has dealt with serious health challenges
for more than 20 years (since childhood) AND who has a profound
interest in fairly evaluating all types of medicine and healing
modalities--looking for what works with as little or no risk to the
patient.

I recognize the lack of cohesiveness within the homeopathic
community, and that discussions such as this one are not typically
friendly or tend to be with a 'defensive' or ego posture---yet
continuity and bringing out the science of homeopathy is vital to its
continued acceptance among the public.

I hope that homeopathy proves as valuable as it is beautiful--as I
can't seem to stop studying it. In this respect and others, I can
see why some, if not many homeopaths become entrenched in the belief
that the simililum can cure anything and everything--maybe one day I
will become one of them (and that scares me). Again, I sincerely
appreciate the thoughts you have shared with me and this group.
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "hahnemannian2002"
wrote:
the
going
and
because
county/district
practice-
homeopaths
homeopathy
of
year
medicine
their
only
Whether
method-
and/or
Most
to
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ets_not_fu
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ets_not_fu
not.
and
(usually
get
Today
the
works
them;
of
situation.
-
(worldwide)

Thanks for your sentiments, mine exactly. Homeopathy is beautiful
and wonderful and is very addictive... It is so powerful that
sometimes we tend to think that we are omnipotent. The balancing is
always done by a concern for the patient. Is what we are doing fair
to the patient?For all its logic and beauty and power we should
never lose sight of the fact that what is paramount is the patient's
well being... and not proving any of our pet theories or
convictions...
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "prestonfoell"
wrote:
me
challenges
the
its
belief
I
this
to
needed
for
or
based
will
need
study
still
and
siding
allopathy
Not
allopathy-
that
cure
whole
psychologizing
be
isolating
etc.
golden
to
my
art
Nobels....we
homeopathy
into
boy "pardners".
is -
that
it
that
to
new
are
provings-
up
the
mix
the
modern
dry
works
we
enough
repeatedly
almost
cannot
computers.
have
homeopathy
PhDs
Boenninghausen
we
and
vital
that
done
Lyssinum...

an
showing
stronger
and
or
to
a
doubt--
that
of
at
advocate. I
allopathic 'care',
people
positive
related
I
Placebo
than
self-
treated?
true
the
others)--
works---
magazine
please,
should
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ets_not_fu
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue ... ets_not_fu
be
the
holistic
homeopathy
children
remedy
be
30
changed.
was
trying
because
right
to
with
who
be
the
do
them
50
solution
point
else's.
Experiments
and
for
to
not
who
able
---
624-

last time allopathic doctors went on strike where I live, the death rate went down... makes you wonder...
Vera

hahnemannian2002 wrote:
Hi-
(snip)
We also need to realize that if all homeopathic doctors of a whole
country stop working for a week - no patient is going to die because
of this; whereas if all allopathic doctors of even a county/district
were to stop working for a week - people are going to die. Our
contribution is marginal to health care at best; by psychologizing
more and more we are losing relevance in day-to-day medical practice-
in the here and now...

(snip)
---------------------------------
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--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, VR VR wrote:
rate went down... makes you wonder...
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