Minutus

Dear Dr John
I followed your correspondence and I think your objection is absolutely right. All the answers are correct but not the exact explanation of this distinction.
You can find your answer in the difference between mechanism of action (Not nature) of any remedy that works on similarity law and any medicine that works on Opposite law. It is completely independent to this point that they are crude or potentized, Chemical or Physical.
For understanding the mechanism of action, you need to know the Primary Action and Secondary action subject very well. I believe it is the most important and almost neglected base stone of Hahnemann's view in Organon. Please go through Aphorism 63-68 Organon 6 again very carefully.
Any remedy or agent that affects a vital system, will cause two followings actions: Primary action and then Secondary action
Primary Action: The alterations in the vital force because of the action of external agent. It is mainly belongs and proportionate with external agent
Secondary action: the effort of VF for removing the alterations and returning to previous healthier condition. It completely belongs to patient's (Vital system) vital force and very different in different people because of various constitution, sensitivity and resistant power of V.F
For example anybody use Acetaminophen, it causes blocking of pain circle by breaking the circle of prostgalandin during its primary action . After end of this action (4-6 hours) the secondary actions of different patients are very different from delicate action just to restore previous balance in one side to allergic reactions, skin eruptions, liver problem and ......in another side. The duration of this part is very different in different cases.
Now lets have a look on mechanism of treatment by Similar medicine and Opposite medicine considering primary and secondary actions.
In Opposite therapy, we try to use the Primary action of opposite remedy to remove the symptoms of natural disease. for example prescribing laxative for a constipated patient. As long as the Primary Action of medicine continues, the symptom of natural disease will be covered. Therefore the favorite action of an opposite remedy is its Primary action. the secondary action of V.F in this type of treatment usually causes aggravation of symptoms after end of medicine's Primary action.
In treatment by similar medicine, the Primary action is similar to natural disease therefore in many cases it causes an aggravation in symptoms and it is not the curative and favorite part of treatment. After end of this phase, the secondary action of VF tries to remove this artificial disease and at the same time the similar natural disease will be removed. Therefore the curative action of Similar medicine is Secondary action of VF.
In summary in antipathy we need a strong primary action with minimum bad secondary action. therefore we have to use high doses (Chemical or Energy) of medicine. This primary action is almost the same on all patients with well defined duration of actions. The unwanted secondary actions are called iatrogenic diseases and the hospitals are full of such patients.
In Homeopathy (Through using crude or potentized, chemical, mental or physical agents), we need a very delicate Primary Action and therefore very small doses and then a long and curative Secondary action. As the secondary action of VF is individualized and vary in any patient, the duration of curative action of similar remedy (Homeopathy) can be few minutes in one case to several years in another one related to constitution of patient, sensitivity and resistance power of VF.
I believe it is the explanation of distinction between Homeopathic and Allopathic medicins. In Homeopathy treatment is by Secondary action of V.F but in antipathy treatment is by primary action of medicine.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear F. Shaddel
It sounds good. I have to think about it more and go through Organon again. But if it is correct, it can answer many questions of medical professionals like:
Why Homeopathy claims that we need very small doses? How homeopathy claims such small doses and almost water and suger can act for a long time?
Oh, thanks minutus. I feel better now. I get back to mailing list when I thought about all of them carefully.
John

"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:

Dear Dr John
I followed your correspondence and I think your objection is absolutely right. All the answers are correct but not the exact explanation of this distinction.
You can find your answer in the difference between mechanism of action (Not nature) of any remedy that works on similarity law and any medicine that works on Opposite law. It is completely independent to this point that they are crude or potentized, Chemical or Physical.
For understanding the mechanism of action, you need to know the Primary Action and Secondary action subject very well. I believe it is the most important and almost neglected base stone of Hahnemann's view in Organon. Please go through Aphorism 63-68 Organon 6 again very carefully.
Any remedy or agent that affects a vital system, will cause two followings actions: Primary action and then Secondary action
Primary Action: The alterations in the vital force because of the action of external agent. It is mainly belongs and proportionate with external agent
Secondary action: the effort of VF for removing the alterations and returning to previous healthier condition. It completely belongs to patient's (Vital system) vital force and very different in different people because of various constitution, sensitivity and resistant power of V.F
For example anybody use Acetaminophen, it causes blocking of pain circle by breaking the circle of prostgalandin during its primary action . After end of this action (4-6 hours) the secondary actions of different patients are very different from delicate action just to restore previous balance in one side to allergic reactions, skin eruptions, liver problem and ......in another side. The duration of this part is very different in different cases.
Now lets have a look on mechanism of treatment by Similar medicine and Opposite medicine considering primary and secondary actions.
In Opposite therapy, we try to use the Primary action of opposite remedy to remove the symptoms of natural disease. for example prescribing laxative for a constipated patient. As long as the Primary Action of medicine continues, the symptom of natural disease will be covered. Therefore the favorite action of an opposite remedy is its Primary action. the secondary action of V.F in this type of treatment usually causes aggravation of symptoms after end of medicine's Primary action.
In treatment by similar medicine, the Primary action is similar to natural disease therefore in many cases it causes an aggravation in symptoms and it is not the curative and favorite part of treatment. After end of this phase, the secondary action of VF tries to remove this artificial disease and at the same time the similar natural disease will be removed. Therefore the curative action of Similar medicine is Secondary action of VF.
In summary in antipathy we need a strong primary action with minimum bad secondary action. therefore we have to use high doses (Chemical or Energy) of medicine. This primary action is almost the same on all patients with well defined duration of actions. The unwanted secondary actions are called iatrogenic diseases and the hospitals are full of such patients.
In Homeopathy (Through using crude or potentized, chemical, mental or physical agents), we need a very delicate Primary Action and therefore very small doses and then a long and curative Secondary action. As the secondary action of VF is individualized and vary in any patient, the duration of curative action of similar remedy (Homeopathy) can be few minutes in one case to several years in another one related to constitution of patient, sensitivity and resistance power of VF.
I believe it is the explanation of distinction between Homeopathic and Allopathic medicins. In Homeopathy treatment is by Secondary action of V.F but in antipathy treatment is by primary action of medicine.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

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Best Wishes
Dr. John
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Then, if I got it correctly, the duration of action of Homeopathic remedy in patient is a complete different issue than proving in healthy person. In first case, it is the duration of secondary action of V.F but in second case it is primary action of remedy. the first one should be very different in different patients but the second one should be almost the same in all provers. Like duration of action of conventional medicines. Am I right?
Best
Homeofan
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:

Dear Dr John
I followed your correspondence and I think your objection is absolutely right. All the answers are correct but not the exact explanation of this distinction.
You can find your answer in the difference between mechanism of action (Not nature) of any remedy that works on similarity law and any medicine that works on Opposite law. It is completely independent to this point that they are crude or potentized, Chemical or Physical.
For understanding the mechanism of action, you need to know the Primary Action and Secondary action subject very well. I believe it is the most important and almost neglected base stone of Hahnemann's view in Organon. Please go through Aphorism 63-68 Organon 6 again very carefully.
Any remedy or agent that affects a vital system, will cause two followings actions: Primary action and then Secondary action
Primary Action: The alterations in the vital force because of the action of external agent. It is mainly belongs and proportionate with external agent
Secondary action: the effort of VF for removing the alterations and returning to previous healthier condition. It completely belongs to patient's (Vital system) vital force and very different in different people because of various constitution, sensitivity and resistant power of V.F
For example anybody use Acetaminophen, it causes blocking of pain circle by breaking the circle of prostgalandin during its primary action . After end of this action (4-6 hours) the secondary actions of different patients are very different from delicate action just to restore previous balance in one side to allergic reactions, skin eruptions, liver problem and ......in another side. The duration of this part is very different in different cases.
Now lets have a look on mechanism of treatment by Similar medicine and Opposite medicine considering primary and secondary actions.
In Opposite therapy, we try to use the Primary action of opposite remedy to remove the symptoms of natural disease. for example prescribing laxative for a constipated patient. As long as the Primary Action of medicine continues, the symptom of natural disease will be covered. Therefore the favorite action of an opposite remedy is its Primary action. the secondary action of V.F in this type of treatment usually causes aggravation of symptoms after end of medicine's Primary action.
In treatment by similar medicine, the Primary action is similar to natural disease therefore in many cases it causes an aggravation in symptoms and it is not the curative and favorite part of treatment. After end of this phase, the secondary action of VF tries to remove this artificial disease and at the same time the similar natural disease will be removed. Therefore the curative action of Similar medicine is Secondary action of VF.
In summary in antipathy we need a strong primary action with minimum bad secondary action. therefore we have to use high doses (Chemical or Energy) of medicine. This primary action is almost the same on all patients with well defined duration of actions. The unwanted secondary actions are called iatrogenic diseases and the hospitals are full of such patients.
In Homeopathy (Through using crude or potentized, chemical, mental or physical agents), we need a very delicate Primary Action and therefore very small doses and then a long and curative Secondary action. As the secondary action of VF is individualized and vary in any patient, the duration of curative action of similar remedy (Homeopathy) can be few minutes in one case to several years in another one related to constitution of patient, sensitivity and resistance power of VF.
I believe it is the explanation of distinction between Homeopathic and Allopathic medicins. In Homeopathy treatment is by Secondary action of V.F but in antipathy treatment is by primary action of medicine.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
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---------------------------------
Regards
Sita - Homeofan
---------------------------------
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What a clear explanation. Thank-you,
Ellen Madono

Hi Homeofan,
Yes, different issue. Curative effects from a simillimum can be very
long-lasting or even permanent, but proving effects are not (tho length
of time varies according to patient and remedy).

Both (curative and proving effects) have to do with "susceptibility"
tho, and so not every patient will respond to the remedy at all, while
a few will respond especially strongly. So in that way too, remedy
effects are quite variable, different in different people and
circumstances, and much less uniform than drug effects.
Best wishes,
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nice deduction, Exactly. It is why we observe some pioneers have writen in their books that Belladona is a short acting remedy but others emphasize on having some cases that Belladona has worked more than 90 days. Both of them are right but they are talking about two complete different subjects.
Now let me put this subject for discussion. We agreed that secondary action of V.F against Homeopathic remedies is an individualized subject and different in any patient. We all know the reason of difference in secondary action in different people is difference in constitution, Resistance power of V.F and sensitivity of patients. That is completely right.
But we frequently observe the duration of action of one Homeopathy remedy (Secondary Action) is completely different in one person in two different conditions. For example once ArsC30 works for only few hours but in case of prescribing one or two months later for another reason to the same patient, it works several months. What is you idea about the reason? Here the consititution and sensitivity are almost the same.
Regards
F. Shaddel

"homeofan@yahoo.ca ." wrote:
Then, if I got it correctly, the duration of action of Homeopathic remedy in patient is a complete different issue than proving in healthy person. In first case, it is the duration of secondary action of V.F but in second case it is primary action of remedy. the first one should be very different in different patients but the second one should be almost the same in all provers. Like duration of action of conventional medicines. Am I right?
Best
Homeofan
"Dr. F. Shaddel" wrote:

Dear Dr John
I followed your correspondence and I think your objection is absolutely right. All the answers are correct but not the exact explanation of this distinction.
You can find your answer in the difference between mechanism of action (Not nature) of any remedy that works on similarity law and any medicine that works on Opposite law. It is completely independent to this point that they are crude or potentized, Chemical or Physical.
For understanding the mechanism of action, you need to know the Primary Action and Secondary action subject very well. I believe it is the most important and almost neglected base stone of Hahnemann's view in Organon. Please go through Aphorism 63-68 Organon 6 again very carefully.
Any remedy or agent that affects a vital system, will cause two followings actions: Primary action and then Secondary action
Primary Action: The alterations in the vital force because of the action of external agent. It is mainly belongs and proportionate with external agent
Secondary action: the effort of VF for removing the alterations and returning to previous healthier condition. It completely belongs to patient's (Vital system) vital force and very different in different people because of various constitution, sensitivity and resistant power of V.F
For example anybody use Acetaminophen, it causes blocking of pain circle by breaking the circle of prostgalandin during its primary action . After end of this action (4-6 hours) the secondary actions of different patients are very different from delicate action just to restore previous balance in one side to allergic reactions, skin eruptions, liver problem and ......in another side. The duration of this part is very different in different cases.
Now lets have a look on mechanism of treatment by Similar medicine and Opposite medicine considering primary and secondary actions.
In Opposite therapy, we try to use the Primary action of opposite remedy to remove the symptoms of natural disease. for example prescribing laxative for a constipated patient. As long as the Primary Action of medicine continues, the symptom of natural disease will be covered. Therefore the favorite action of an opposite remedy is its Primary action. the secondary action of V.F in this type of treatment usually causes aggravation of symptoms after end of medicine's Primary action.
In treatment by similar medicine, the Primary action is similar to natural disease therefore in many cases it causes an aggravation in symptoms and it is not the curative and favorite part of treatment. After end of this phase, the secondary action of VF tries to remove this artificial disease and at the same time the similar natural disease will be removed. Therefore the curative action of Similar medicine is Secondary action of VF.
In summary in antipathy we need a strong primary action with minimum bad secondary action. therefore we have to use high doses (Chemical or Energy) of medicine. This primary action is almost the same on all patients with well defined duration of actions. The unwanted secondary actions are called iatrogenic diseases and the hospitals are full of such patients.
In Homeopathy (Through using crude or potentized, chemical, mental or physical agents), we need a very delicate Primary Action and therefore very small doses and then a long and curative Secondary action. As the secondary action of VF is individualized and vary in any patient, the duration of curative action of similar remedy (Homeopathy) can be few minutes in one case to several years in another one related to constitution of patient, sensitivity and resistance power of VF.
I believe it is the explanation of distinction between Homeopathic and Allopathic medicins. In Homeopathy treatment is by Secondary action of V.F but in antipathy treatment is by primary action of medicine.
Regards
F. Shaddel
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!

If you do not wish to receive individual emails, you can simply change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a single daily digest.
SPONSORED LINKS
Alternative medicine Alternative therapies in health and medicine Complementary and alternative medicine Complementary alternative medicine National center for complementary and alternative medicine
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
Regards
Sita - Homeofan
---------------------------------
Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ATTENTION PLEASE:

The Minutus Group is established purely for the promotion of Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.

****
ATTENTION PLEASE!!

If you do not wish to receive individual emails, you can simply change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a single daily digest.
SPONSORED LINKS
Alternative medicine Alternative therapies in health and medicine Complementary and alternative medicine Complementary alternative medicine National center for complementary and alternative medicine
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
Associate Professor in Organon and Principles
Dean of School of Homeopathy, PHU
Education Affairs Director CTCH
Administrator to HMA, UK in Middle East
-----------------------------
CTCH Administration Office
Tel: +971-4-3902257
Fax: +971-4-3664619
Email: ctch@bc.kv.ae
Website: www.scientifichom.com
PO Box: 502221, KV, Dubai, UAE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nader
Great point. Well done. The side effects of medical drugs come from two sources. But before discussing about it, I would like to emaphasize on a point in your Question.
"Are not these symtpoms due to primary action of Acetaminophen in very sentitive persons (Idiosyncracies)?"
When you are talking about oversensitive patient, it means the reaction of VF in this patient is more than others (Secondary action). Therefore it can not be about primary action of external agent. It is better to replace the word of Suceptible instead of sensitive. Suceptible person is a person who is afflicted by primary action of some special external agent more than others. Idiosyncrasy is proving some rare symptoms of suceptible prover to some special substances that you can consider in the drug picture (Primary action) of remedy.
"Are not these symtpoms due to primary action of Acetaminophen in very suceptible persons (Idiosyncracies)?"
Now to answering this new question, I should say, yes. it is true. A big part of the side effects (Not all of them) come from primary action of drug on suceptible patients. For example gastric problems of acetaminophen appear only in some patients who are more suceptible than others to gastric problem. Idiosyncrasies are the end of range in this group.
The second source of side effects of drugs that are used in large doses are secondary action that usually are in opposit direction of its primary action. as much as the patient is more sensitive the risk of this kind of reactions is more. And as a practical point, differentiation of this two groups is not easy and in some cases impossible.
Also the term of Suceptibility and sensitivity are coming and used instead of each other many times but they are not exactly the same.
Thanks for prompt pointing out.
Regards
Shaddel

Nader Moradi wrote:

Dear Dr. Shaddel,

Thnx for correction, Yes, Susceptibility is different from Sensitivity.
Regarding Primary and Secondary action, IMO, they must be redefined. In
Organon Hahnemann has not elucidated whether secondary action is in
opposite direction of Primary action or not?
On the other hand in Homeopathic remedies,IMO, we can not have counter
action of VF which is in opposite direction of primary action. Because
for inducing counter action there must be two criteria 1- when there is
opposite condition in the nature 2- Large dose and as Homeopathic
remedies are made by potentisation therefore naturally they can not be
found in the nature and counter action can not be induced by Homeopathic
remedies.
Besides, Mechanism action of Allopathic drugs are different from
Homeopathic remedies and we can not compare them. Also mechanism action
of Homeopathic remedies are different in Acute and Chronic situations,
In acute situation VF is battling with stressor (and remedies in
Proving) but in chronic states remedies correct mistunement of VF. In
fact, IMO, in chronic situation primary stressor has mistuned VF and
when encountering with false stressor ( Exciting Causes) VF reacts in
way that it is like reaction to primary stressor and in this way VF
destroy the Body and produce sing and symptoms. What we do in chronic
situation is that we want to say to VF that its primary stressor is
similar to our simillium remedy and there is no need to react to false
stressor. Therefore duration of homeopathic remedy depends on situation
of VF.

Kind Regards,
Nader

Dear Nader
Great. I quiet agree. your opinion is correct.
Regards
Shaddel

Nader Moradi wrote:
Dear Dr. Shaddel,

Thnx for correction, Yes, Susceptibility is different from Sensitivity.
Regarding Primary and Secondary action, IMO, they must be redefined. In
Organon Hahnemann has not elucidated whether secondary action is in
opposite direction of Primary action or not?
On the other hand in Homeopathic remedies,IMO, we can not have counter
action of VF which is in opposite direction of primary action. Because
for inducing counter action there must be two criteria 1- when there is
opposite condition in the nature 2- Large dose and as Homeopathic
remedies are made by potentisation therefore naturally they can not be
found in the nature and counter action can not be induced by Homeopathic
remedies.
Besides, Mechanism action of Allopathic drugs are different from
Homeopathic remedies and we can not compare them. Also mechanism action
of Homeopathic remedies are different in Acute and Chronic situations,
In acute situation VF is battling with stressor (and remedies in
Proving) but in chronic states remedies correct mistunement of VF. In
fact, IMO, in chronic situation primary stressor has mistuned VF and
when encountering with false stressor ( Exciting Causes) VF reacts in
way that it is like reaction to primary stressor and in this way VF
destroy the Body and produce sing and symptoms. What we do in chronic
situation is that we want to say to VF that its primary stressor is
similar to our simillium remedy and there is no need to react to false
stressor. Therefore duration of homeopathic remedy depends on situation
of VF.

Kind Regards,
Nader