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Sleep apnoea

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:17 am
by Nandana T. Pai
These are a few quotations made by pts wife.

pt wife is narrating as he does not remember the incidence of night.
Wife is 3 mnts pregnant. But got into new job and the hus got a
promotion ie work is more but cash wise not so.
He was at home from yday afternoon. V had a very peaceful evening. He
watched tv. Later he spend time on analysing and studying shares. I get
tired by night 10-11. so I slept at 11.00 he was in the Internet. He
came to sleep at 12.00. by night 2.00 I could feel him fidgeting on the
bed. And his body movements. I felt he was getting up. I really got
frightened. I rushed and got up from the bed and switched on the lights.
And I am seeing anand STANDING ON THE BED in his sleep. I asked him
what he was doing!. He didn’t reply. I told him to sit. He is not
talking. It was ice cold room with A/c. he was sweating. I asked how I
can help him. He just looked at me. didn’t reply wiped his sweat and
slept back..!. I wonder if he was trying to sleep walk! Or he was trying
to switch on the light. Morning I asked him what he was doing. He
remember he stood up on the bed…Y he doesn’t know, he doesn’t remember
anything.. what was his mental condition also he doesn’t remember. He
was thanking God that he didn’t stamp me!!!!. he really scared me
tooooo much yday.
My hus. gets very upset on his office matters. His problem is that he
is living in present and at night he thinks of future. When he comes
back from office. he is in the present. He has several pending work and
headache cases to be solved and night he starts thinking of future. He
thinks what can be done to solve it. Then he knows that lot of
departments and ppl have to coordinate..then he feels helpless of his
situation.. he gets angry and frustrated. And most nights he
speaks..very loud and clear in English his office matters..(that
speaking part I have always kept ignoring) coz I am used to it now. His
futuristic feelings and present conditions of works is coming out as
nightmares/suffocation ( I don’t know wht is it still) from him. May be
if v take a holiday this might become well.
BP is 116/74 .
exact height 185 cms
his exact weight is 112 kgs.
some 2 yrs back this was the only problem.
1001 times i wake up my his and tell him not to snore. even he cannot
help it. His nose is stooped and he isnot able to breath though the nose.

6mnts back
he speaks in his sleeps and some days he gets up with very bad dreams
after that he is very troubled. Snoring always there, almost most days.
This month beginning the problem have become sever.

he get's up from sleep with full sweat and saying he is feeling
suffocated. Same old problem. When he gets up he grabs my hands and
drags me up also. My stomach got strained but I kept quite..while going
to sleep he was telling that day his work is not over due to lack of time

then the symptoms goes like this.

Since then he insist on turning on the tublight at night or else he
isnot able to sleep if the tight is onhe is not getting the suffocative
spells. In his Dreams he feels he is i a dark room/dungeon/trench and
there is no water, air and light it is totally dark and he so gets
suffocated gets fully suffocated sweats in a full a/c ( especially neck
in the back) gets up, sits or start to walk but lie down again and
sleep as wife by then would have put on the light he then sleeps and
does not what he did or told in the morning he know something wrong he
did but does not know what.
The pt is young 30 yrs doing management come sales job. Was the top in
sales so got promotion to this job which in mid post to a subsidiary
manger so has to do both the job also manage the sales and of his team.
Very obedient so does over work even of the team members. Never gets
angry nor expresses it. does not believe in things like bribe etc to get
a better position, does not fag or booze, craves very tasty food likes
non veg - chicken fried, like cold chilled water but now avoids as it
is producing stoppage on nostrils at night and provoke snoring and
sleep apnoea like things so has reduced the wt in the last few months.
Crazy of share business as he want to be a millioner. Thirst increased.
occasionally constipated.

Any remedy suggestion. Rubrics to be selected, any dietary suggestion.

Nandana

Re: Sleep apnoea

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:33 am
by AH
on 12/16/05 11:17 PM, Nandana T. Pai at nandana@HotPOP.com wrote:
Hi Nandana,
============
RUBRIC IDEAS:

SEARCHES (MIXED)
Jump [sen] bed [rem] anxiety [sen] dark [rem] business [sen] talks: ars.,
2lach.8, 3Op.8, 2phos., puls.8, 2rhus-t.8, stram.

Respiration [sen] suffocative [sen] sleep [rem] perspiration: 3Am-caust.10,
2ammc.10, ant-t.85, 2apoc., arg-n., ars.8, 2arum-t.25, bad., 2bapt.,
benz-p., cadm-s., 2calc-s.36, 2cedr., 2chin-ar.160, 2chlor.36, 2croto-t.22,
dig.8, graph.36, ham.36, hep.8, ip., 3Kali-br.36, 2kali-i., 2lac-c.55,
lach.8, 2lact.22, nux-v.36, op.36, phos.8, ptel.36, >>>>>>>2samb., spong.36,
stann., sulph.187, tab.36, tarent.8, teucr., valer.188, vesp.36
MIND
MIND; ANXIETY; future, about (133)
MIND; SOMNAMBULISM (72) :
MIND; BUSINESS; talks of (17) : agar., ars., bell., Bry., canth., cimic.,
com., dor., hyos., med., mygal., op., phos., plb., rhus-t., stram., sulph.
MIND; ANXIETY; dark, in (13) : aeth., aur-i., calc., carb-an., carb-v.,
hypoth., kali-c., nat-m., phos., puls., rhus-t., STRAM., zinc.
MIND; LIGHT; desire for (23) : acon., am-m., asar., bamb-a., Bell., calc.,
cann-s., carb-an., choc., gaert., Gels., grin., haliae-lc., kola., lac-c.,
nat-m., phos., plb., ruta, sanic., Stram., stront-c., valer.

Prison [sen] dream: anh.204, 2bar-i.209, 3Cann-i.214, 3Corv-c.258, hura,
hydrog.222, iod.209, 3Lith-i.209, 3Mang-i.209, 2merc-i-f.209, 2ped.2016,
2zinc-i.209

Dream [sen] basement/cellar/dungeon/trench: 3Allox.231, bamb-a.1184,
3Bov.36, 2cadm.209, coriand.205, corv-c.258, lac-c.219, mag-m.209, musca-d.,
ol-suc.194, 3Ped.36, taosc.
Dream [sen] basement/cellar/dungeon/trench [rem] anxiety [sen] dark/future:
3Allox.231, bamb-a.1184

Bambusa:
Strange dream: A neighbour tells me he has arranged things so that he can be
buried alive in his cellar. All you have to do is put a concrete ceiling on.
========
Rx IDEAS:
Sambucus (could be) the first rx in the case:
Vermeulen:
Bad effects of fright, especially suffocative attacks. [Follows well
after Opium in bad effects of fright.] Very easily frightened.
Chilly.
Most of the pains [complaints] occur during REST and disappear during
motion.
Better motion [3]. Better CONTINUED motion [3].
Worse lying [3]. Better Rising [3].
Worse fruit.
THIRSTLESS.
often lead to this remedy, when we find a great deal of perspiration,
occurring with any other trouble, which may last all the time, or it may
come and go in paroxysms" [Guernsey].
DRY heat during sleep, perspiration on WAKING.
Oedematous swelling of various parts of the body, especially legs,
insteps and feet.
perspiration.
of perspiration!!]. Wakes suddenly with asthmatic respiration, attended with
PROFUSE PERSPIRATION.
waking him after midnight; with violent sweat; worse fright.
obstruction of the nose. Nose dry and completely obstructed [disappearance
of discharge].
Descending colds.
NUCLEUS:
1. Ailments from fright. Frightful images on closing the eyes.
2. Worse after midnight. Sleeps into the attack.
3. Excessive perspiration.
4. Disappearance of perspiration = respiratory ailments.
5. Worse fruit.
Sambucus Complete Rep:
Delirium: sleeplessness, with. {0> 43> 0} [137]

Sambucus Morrison:
"Dry heat during sleep, marked perspiration during the day or upon waking"
is the keynote, but often the perspiration is heavy during the whole attack,
even before the patient awakens.
Perspiration over whole body except head.
Body very hot but feet icy cold (Bell).
Weakness with excessive perspiration.
Combined Symptoms
Asthma and heavy perspiration.
Sankaran puts sambucus in tubercular miasm. (SUFFOCATION, HECTIC)

========
Sambucus is complemented and followed well by

=====
PHOS;

and followed well (among others) by

====
STRAM is also to be noted (anxiety in dark, wants light on, somnabulism,
talks of business).
and

====
BELL, (business anxiety/talks of business/delirium/desires light);

====
NUX-V (talks of business, etc)
Other rx idea:
=========
Pediculus-- HEAD LOUSE
DREAMS: FAMINE, BEING LEFT TO DIE OF, IN A DUNGEON, ESCAPING BY CRAWLING
OUT. 0>1>0
HOMEOPATHIC -- Among these were:
had unusual fluency of words.
Jerks and starts in evening when sitting or lying. Miliary eruptions,
itching and formication almost all over. The symptoms are worse by contact
in evening after dining after eating,' standing, stooping, walking.
CLINICAL - Children, diseases. Colic. Diarrhea. Ganglion of foot. Hair,
loss. Irritation. Edema. Psora, hereditary. Skin, disorders. Stammering.
COMPARE - (1) Colic and diarrhea after eating, Trombid. (2) Skin,
Psor., Sulph.
RELATIONS - Antidoted by: Chin. (anasarca).
SOURCES - Clarke.

Pediculus (Mangialavori)
MIND, BOTHERSOME
MIND, DREAMS, pursued, of being
MIND, INDUSTRIOUS, mania for work
GENERALITIES, FOOD and drinks, meat, desires

=======
Bambusa:
Dream [sen] basement/cellar/dungeon/trench [rem] anxiety [sen] dark/future:
3Allox.231, bamb-a.1184
Bambusa:
Strange dream: A neighbour tells me he has arranged things so that he can be
buried alive in his cellar. All you have to do is put a concrete ceiling on.
Hope these ideas help you and pt.

Best,
Andy

Re: Sleep apnoea

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:25 pm
by Joy Lucas
I would offer a little triad of rx, each with growing intensity of the
situation and dependent on how you view the case

firstly - sulphur - making plans, have to be busy, likes money,
snoring, sleep apnoea, sweating during sleep, awakes with starts or
screams, vivid dreams, talks jerks and twitches during sleep, thirsty

secondly - zincum - workaholic, very forgetful, stares as if
frightened on waking, nasal obstruction, cries out in sleep without
being aware of it, sleep walks, profuse sweat at night

thirdly - stramonium - workaholic and devout, >>> bright light, sai he
were seeking something, awakes terrified and clings to those near him,
deep snoring, frightful dreams, profuse sweat which does not relieve,
very thirsty

Hope useful, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com

Re: Sleep apnoea

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:09 pm
by Joy Lucas
Rosemary is having trouble posting to Minutus and she requested the
following
and to oblige I offer this which I will also post on my blog, above the
recent 'plastic fantastic' piece. Maybe others will contribute as well.

SAMBUCUS NIGRA

You can think of many remedies as chains and at certain points of those
chains diseased states emerge, getting more profound or serious as the
chain lengthens.

At one end of the Sambucus chain we have quite significant causation =
fright, grief and anxiety (the anxiety often accompanies exertion – the
material medicas suggest excessive sexual indulgence as a cause but I
see this as a type of exertion :-)).

Next on the paradigm chain is ‘congestion’ – this represents the
blocking procedures of the grief, anxiety and/or fright. This blocking
or obstruction also creates a confusion that, in turn, represents an
inability to express and thus congestion develops - like an over
flowing bath.

Further down the chain comes the reaction to that congestion.
Inevitably this involves oedema in various parts of the body and the
parts usually turn blue; a feeling of oppression, mainly in the chest;
the head feels like it is full of water (from the over flowing bath!);
the nose feels obstructed (it usually is with thick mucous); headaches;
fainting; contradictory thermals – a combination of icy coldness and
heat; burning fevers; nephritis; whooping cough, asthma and suffocative
coughs with an inability to expire (this is the dangerous acute phase
of this rx – not being able to expire or express physically, mentally
or emotionally); delusions that are usually quite frightful – such as
ghosts, monsters, etc; they do not like to be uncovered (and you can
see how this is directly linked to an inability to express or being
blocked and obstructed).

Finally comes the attempt to redress the balance by creating some kind
of elimination or purging. The Elder is well know for its eliminative
properties – this is all about regeneration, death and rebirth. The
purgative properties are probably due to the viburnic acid that is
present and this purging takes the shape of vomiting; diarrhoea;
flatus; profuse urination; excessive perspiration (they can actually
faint during this perspiration because they just cannot really deal
with the ‘letting go’ although curiously the Irish think that Elder was
used for witches broomsticks and it could induce a trance = fainting?);
profuse menses; trembling; shrieking; attempts to escape; anger;
restlessness; weeping.

The tree contains considerable potassium, especially Kalium nit (worth
comparing) and there is a dreadful liqueur (lovely to some) called
black sambuca and the ‘cool’ way to drink this is to first set it
alight (either in your mouth or in the glass) – not surprisingly Elder
has quite a history of fire to it and probably contributes to the known
hallucinations if you drink enough of it. Apparently a decoction of it
wards off caterpillars.

So, come on baby light my fire, rockets to the moon on my witches broom
with a drunken caterpillar heavily in pursuit – quite a delusion, I’ll
have to get some in for the festive holidays.

Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com

Re: Sleep apnoea

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:13 am
by Jean Doherty
I think the history given marvelous.
I loved Andy;s post and Joy's. in fact think Sambucus may fit a case
presently struggling with ,but, fear and powerlessness seem to me to be
high,add the constipation,snoring,sweat. I personally wonder about
Opium. it comes up in Andy's 2nd rubric. FWIW Jean

Re: Sleep apnoea

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:34 am
by AH
Hi Rosemary, hope you are well.

I hope Joy's colorful mm will be offered as a body of work to software
search engine programs so as to be available to homeopaths when working on
cases. When the entire mm has been covered by Joy on her various cyber
outlets, then maybe the greater-encompassing whole can be edited and
published as the *Joy of Materia Medica*... :-)

Dont know much about Sambucus. Reputation as superficial, but could be
deeper. The delirium/fright/heat/suffocative syndrome/perspiration is
there. Is that peculiar enough to indicate a layer on top of a greater
totality which is more inclusive and more peculiar... Does the perspective
of a larger totality (eg. frightened Stramonium somnambulist) make the
midnight syndrome peculiars into more particulars and less remedy-gnomonic?
Would need to confirm Sambucus for sure. The energy in this case is high
and a natural outlet. Would not be pretty to suppress. If Sambucus is the
main rx, then the specific perspiration on suffocative waking; or some
peculiar twists e.g. as mentioned by Joy are needed.

If Sambucus is a "layer", then I expect another rx to come up soon. There
IMHO is likely to be a follower rx with some complementary aspects, e.g.
ambition and high degree of conscientiousness and integrity which leads to
problems in the greater world. World which does not reward these well and
frustrates the felt need to "get ahead" to support the family. Snowballing
anxieties and frustrations eventually begin to form the image of the whole
case (even the susceptibility present before the external reality which has
triggered eruption of observed symptoms due to miasm). Certainly this
person is acting out some high anxiety --- and it comes out with an emblem
of miasm. Waxing theoretically about a chicken or egg question -- possibly
the dominant miasm is also what attracts the external "curriculum" which
excites the susceptibility in his psychosomatic constitution created by --
the miasm. If the meta-miasm is tubercular, the person is a seeker, and
will burn himself up in the process.

Other rubric possibilties (Complete 2000, an older version so these are not
all inclusive):
MIND; AMBITION; much, ambitious; money, for (5) : ars., calc., lyc., nux-v.,
sulph.

MIND; FEAR; general; poverty (23) : adam., ambr., ars., Bry., calc.,
calc-f., calc-s., calc-sil., cand-a., chlor., falco-p., graph., hydrog.,
kali-c., med., meli., nux-v., psor., puls., sep., stann., staph., sulph.
Pediculus/Typhus febrile angle
That Pediculus (louse) has dreams of dungeons I thought curious, given the
amount of endogenous heat from the pt in an air-conditioned room. Some
infectious process (miasm or whole microbe) is in operation. Sambucus ---in
Sankarans tubercular miasm --is no stranger to heat and night perspiring.
However, the almost febrile syndrome level of heat is reminiscent of typhus,
carried by lice, fleas etc. Hering gives Typhus as context for some of
Sambucus symptoms--maybe this angle should be looked at,. Maybe suppressed
head lice in the past of this pt... (long shot but the connection could not
be missed...). If something like this, would show a "layer", unless a
larger totality rx underneath the layer can be perceived and is appropriate
to give while assuming it will work thru the layer.

More digging and confirmatory investigation needed as Nandana has asserted,
for this case to "go clunk".

Rosemary, when you are able to fool the password troll that is knocking off
Minutus subscribers (Atiq, yourself, others?), please expose the cause...

All the best,
A

Re: Sleep apnoea

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:19 pm
by Joy Lucas
Certainly Sambucus is a tubercular rx and fearfulness + suffocation
often go hand in hand with many of the tubercular rx with the affinity
to the lungs and breathing disorders. The 'fright' in sambucus can be
almost anything. It is a very useful children's rx - whooping cough,
asthma, croup and many of these really serious respiratory illnesses
always bring with them a fear of suffocation and with sleep apnoea that
is what is happening - the valve to the wind pipe doesn't open and shut
properly and they stop breathing - quite logical to wake frightened in
a situation like this. Interesting about the dreaming of dungeons and
although a 'rich' sx could just mean being trapped, locked away and
suffocating in a small, dark and damp place.

What other rx dream of dungeons apart from lice?

The dreams in sambucus are often of ghosts and monsters and this is a
child like impression of danger - the visions appear on the walls,
again a child often sees things like this when they are scared in the
dark. Actually sambucus has photophobia so not sure that needing the
light when frightened is applicable or not.

Whether the 'fright, grief and anxiety' aspect of sambucus is enough to
cover his reaction to loss of promotion then only detailed case taking
can establish that. It would certainly seem to be part of the case.

The person wants to be a millionaire, is diligent about his work, has
suffered embarrassment regarding the promotion and has some problems
with responsibilities, fear of being left alone (grabbing for wife when
waking in a suffocation) - could be arsenicum if you add all the sleep
problems and cold sweat and dreams, burning anus and I would it to the
list of possibles.

Best, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Sleep apnoea

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:39 pm
by Nandana T. Pai
Hi Group,

Thankyou for the inputs,

I have to add more points which i got when i talked to the pt. I had not
talked to the pt till now - his wife was the main source of symptoms
till now. It is true that the pt is ambitious but he is equaly efficient
in work. He is very very sincere to the work.

He is now on leave for 20 days and he has prepared some few emails and
notes to his boss to his juniors and co-workers explaining what all is
to be completed i these days -( as he is on leave he need not do that or
care for that period of work but) he does not want any loss of business
to his company or his co-workers find his leave a difficult even in the
least way to them. Even if a co-workers or his boss give him a job just
before he was going home he will stay back and do that with much
perfection. And pt is not disappointed or has no any bad feeling that he
did not get the Managerial post only had felt bad as the person who got
promotion was not eligible in that department where the pt was the best.
The first attack he got only after some 10 days after the loss by then
some rules and his job had been changed some rules and some compeltion
was there at that stage and he due to his over sincerity was fully into
the job which was almost difficult to meet as he was only one of the
person in many links and had much risk if it was not done properly but
had to be done at a stipulated time which gave him much pressure. He
tool the anxiety to bed and also thought what all he has to do in the
next day and all. He also told that as his wife is a light sleeper he
is aware of this if he was alone we would not have know about it and so
would have not been able to take it seriously. He generally had good
sleep deep sleep that he does not even hear the alarm he has kept. Now
last 3-4 months since the change in rules and he got a mid managerial
post his work load has increased and the more of work has also changed
and this is the main reason for the anxiety.

Pt is obese and compared to what he was 2 yrs back he has reduced a lot
. He is of big frame shoulder 46. He get headache if he has to had to go
to long distance places in car with shoulder pain. Fells neck and
shoulder muscles strained with head ache in temples always only in hot
days (36-40 degrees of so will be the temperature). Till the day he
got his bad suffocation dream he used to get lot of dreams but all good
and happy ones. Irrespective of his mental state happy or sad he used to
snore and also talk in sleep since childhood. Drinks 1-2 glass of water
before going to sleep. thirst moderate still can drink as much water if
he is offered or sees.

The pt is very mild. Never accusing, not even his management who give
very very hectic schedule to him and deprived him of promotion. Wife
also told that he never blame other or make fun or insult other or tell
negative criticism of other ppl. The usual jokes and the incidence of
the day and all he tells and discuss with wife. He also did not use the
word sincere ie that he is sincere or over sincere to his work instead
he told he was given this this job (30-40 works a day) and he wanted to
complete them but even if he get up at 6 and work till 1 or 2 in the
night some 15 will be over so he will thing of the remaining and the
work he had to do the next day. He told he wanted to complete the work
he was given. He is not a perfectionist but his work has a perfection
when it is completed.

Thermally appears to be ambithermal but more towards to be hot. Sweat's
more back of neck.

Nandana

Re: Sleep apnoea

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:56 pm
by Rochelle
Has anyone had success with sleep apnoea? The remedy I have given the patient which has helped him is not in the rubric Complete 2012, Sleep; waking; breath, wakes to get: (13) ant-t, arum-d, CALC, carc, cur, gels, grin, HEP, IP, kali-c, lach, phos, SAMB, although to be fair the patient wasn’t aware that he had this until he slept in the same room as his cousin recently who described the symptoms of this to him. I am just asking out of interest.
Thanks
Rochelle

Re: Sleep apnoea

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:51 pm
by Maria Bohle
Yes, I had wonderful success with one case of sleep apnia. The case was a suppressed chronic bronchitis case, The patient had had bronchitis all his life and was in his late 50s at the time of treatmeht, after the bronchitis was suppressed by some super antibiotic the patient went into chronic joint inflammation that was treated for a year with steroids - tachycardia, sleep apnia and respirations of 16-18 ensued. Homeopathic treatment brought back the joint pains, unfolded into the bronchitis again where the patient literally sat up in his bed for a week coughing up globs and globs of mucus, it got worse and worse and worse (a big brown paper bag worth of tissues every night) and then got better and better. When it passed respiration were 12 a minute, cardiac rhythm was 68 and the sleep apnia was gone. It was a great case, once the discharge started I did not have to dose again. I look back and wonder at my courage to allow a patient to discharge so profusely (truth be told I was frightened) I was a new homeopath and believed in what I was doing.

Warmly, Maria