Minutus

materia peccans?
i don't recall that phrase. off the top, do you remember where it is in the organon?
tanya

Hi Tanya,

It's in the introduction, and he's referring to mucus, "toxins", all the stuff that some of us will try to sweat out, flush out, "drain" out, etc. Not particularly to the bacteria themselves tho, so far as I've understood.

He's saying all this sweating and purging etc. is unnecessary, because when the VF is normalized, it will take care of all that by itself. (Personally, tho, in absence of the needed remedy, I've found all that stuff to be very useful, tho usually palliative rather than curative. Which I suppose would be his other point.)

Shannon

thanks. i will have to pull out my copy and reread that section.
tanya

Dear Joy
Once again, please don't put words into my mouth out of a desire to wrong-foot me. I have asked you before, as I know Shannon has, not to do this, but it still seems to be your favourite pastime. I was tempted to ignore you email, but as you have cast a slur on me, I decided to reply.
I should hope that I don't have "an allopathic stance" on this issue!! I have no problem with susceptibility being the cause of a person getting ill - of course you need to be susceptible - whatever gave you the idea that I don't believe in susceptibility? Chapter? Verse?
Next - I have no problem with the fact that contagion is energetic/dynamic! Nor have I ever said this!! Everything in this world is energy - why would bacteria, viruses, outside stressors , emotions - anything - be any different? That's why kids who go to school on a day when other kids are being vaccinated sometimes get ill with a similar disease, even if they are not vaccinated themselves.
However, I still do not believe that there are no such things as specific 'disease-causing entities' that can cause disease in a susceptible person. I do NOT believe that in every case of what are so-called "contagious/infectious diseases" that the cause is simply environmental toxins (for example) rather than a disease-causing entity, although I can accept that polio may well be an example of a syndrome which has been wrongly attributed to a virus (I say 'may' because i don't have enough proof to be 100% sure)
HOWEVER, as you seem to know all the answers, and I have been cast as the villain of the piece, perhaps you could answer my question - which I have been screaming about for the past few days, and which no-one has bothered to answer (probably because the answer doesn't fit your beutiful theories!)
HERE IT IS AGAIN:
I lived in Peru for seven years - never caught anything nasty as I observed scrupulous hygiene (never ate raw food out - never ate street food etc.) When my husband and I split up, I came back to the UK with the kids. Shortly before we left Peru (about a week) he took both kids away on holiday with him. The holiday was cut short because their host became ill with suspected - later confirmed - hepatitis A. We left Peru, came to the UK and stayed with my sister. About a week later, my 3 year-old started a fever - he was crotchety, tired and whiny but not really ill. I kept him on my lap (we were driving round looking at suitable houses for sale) and tried to get him to take in fluids (he was thirstless) In order to encourage him, I bought a can of Coke, and first I took a sip, then gave him a sip, then took one myself - so we shared the can and obviously our saliva.
The next day he peeed dark brown urine - I knew immediately what it was, and the doctor agreed. A couple of days later, my other son (5) went down with it. Neither was very ill, but I was very careful with hygiene - separate toilets, eating utensils, plates etc. all soaked in bleach in between meals and hottest possible wash for their sheets and towels.
Approximately 2 -3 weeks later, one evening, I felt fluey. The next day, brown pee. I had a blood test eventually, which confirmed Hep A - and I had it really badly! Thought I was going to die - was in bed for weeks, as weak as a kitten - out of it altogether for several days. I was really scared and it was the closest I've ever felt to death.
Anyway, my point being that as we had moved continents, there were obviously no environmental factors at play, simply person-to-person transmission. My sister and her husband never caught it - she kept up with the hygiene measures I had instigated. The kids were bouncing around again within 3 weeks - it took me until Christmas to get back my energy (it was August when we got ill).
So based on that experience, I would never accept that there is no such thing as a virus. Susceptibility is necessary - yes - but if you go down with something like Hep A there has to be a virus somewhere. It's not common in the UK, but it's endemic in Peru. So it would seem that the kids obviously picked it up in Peru while away on holiday and then must have passed it to me in the UK.
So Joy - perhaps you can answer this question for me. "HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT I WENT DOWN WITH HEP A IN BRITAIN A MONTH AFTER LEAVING PERU? WHERE DID THE VIRUS/DISEASE-CAUSING ENTITY COME FROM?" Because any environmental influences sure as hell were not the same in the UK as in Peru! And I was susceptible - absolutely - but why Hep A?
Liz

No slur intended - observation from reading your posts but you choose to see it as a slur, your problem and I take no fun at all in challenging confusion.

You ask, by shouting in caps, about your own susceptibility - one's own defence mechanisms can play tricks, can try very hard to delay the onset of an illness, this happens all the time, so when the defences are relaxed in any way or the overwhelming situation becomes too much then sx appear.

Basic.

Joy

Dear Joy
Once again, please don't put words into my mouth out of a desire to wrong-foot me. I have asked you before, as I know Shannon has, not to do this, but it still seems to be your favourite pastime. I was tempted to ignore you email, but as you have cast a slur on me, I decided to reply.
I should hope that I don't have "an allopathic stance" on this issue!! I have no problem with susceptibility being the cause of a person getting ill - of course you need to be susceptible - whatever gave you the idea that I don't believe in susceptibility? Chapter? Verse?
Next - I have no problem with the fact that contagion is energetic/dynamic! Nor have I ever said this!! Everything in this world is energy - why would bacteria, viruses, outside stressors , emotions - anything - be any different? That's why kids who go to school on a day when other kids are being vaccinated sometimes get ill with a similar disease, even if they are not vaccinated themselves.
However, I still do not believe that there are no such things as specific 'disease-causing entities' that can cause disease in a susceptible person. I do NOT believe that in every case of what are so-called "contagious/infectious diseases" that the cause is simply environmental toxins (for example) rather than a disease-causing entity, although I can accept that polio may well be an example of a syndrome which has been wrongly attributed to a virus (I say 'may' because i don't have enough proof to be 100% sure)
HOWEVER, as you seem to know all the answers, and I have been cast as the villain of the piece, perhaps you could answer my question - which I have been screaming about for the past few days, and which no-one has bothered to answer (probably because the answer doesn't fit your beutiful theories!)
HERE IT IS AGAIN:
I lived in Peru for seven years - never caught anything nasty as I observed scrupulous hygiene (never ate raw food out - never ate street food etc.) When my husband and I split up, I came back to the UK with the kids. Shortly before we left Peru (about a week) he took both kids away on holiday with him. The holiday was cut short because their host became ill with suspected - later confirmed - hepatitis A. We left Peru, came to the UK and stayed with my sister. About a week later, my 3 year-old started a fever - he was crotchety, tired and whiny but not really ill. I kept him on my lap (we were driving round looking at suitable houses for sale) and tried to get him to take in fluids (he was thirstless) In order to encourage him, I bought a can of Coke, and first I took a sip, then gave him a sip, then took one myself - so we shared the can and obviously our saliva.
The next day he peeed dark brown urine - I knew immediately what it was, and the doctor agreed. A couple of days later, my other son (5) went down with it. Neither was very ill, but I was very careful with hygiene - separate toilets, eating utensils, plates etc. all soaked in bleach in between meals and hottest possible wash for their sheets and towels.
Approximately 2 -3 weeks later, one evening, I felt fluey. The next day, brown pee. I had a blood test eventually, which confirmed Hep A - and I had it really badly! Thought I was going to die - was in bed for weeks, as weak as a kitten - out of it altogether for several days. I was really scared and it was the closest I've ever felt to death.
Anyway, my point being that as we had moved continents, there were obviously no environmental factors at play, simply person-to-person transmission. My sister and her husband never caught it - she kept up with the hygiene measures I had instigated. The kids were bouncing around again within 3 weeks - it took me until Christmas to get back my energy (it was August when we got ill).
So based on that experience, I would never accept that there is no such thing as a virus. Susceptibility is necessary - yes - but if you go down with something like Hep A there has to be a virus somewhere. It's not common in the UK, but it's endemic in Peru. So it would seem that the kids obviously picked it up in Peru while away on holiday and then must have passed it to me in the UK.
So Joy - perhaps you can answer this question for me. "HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT I WENT DOWN WITH HEP A IN BRITAIN A MONTH AFTER LEAVING PERU? WHERE DID THE VIRUS/DISEASE-CAUSING ENTITY COME FROM?" Because any environmental influences sure as hell were not the same in the UK as in Peru! And I was susceptible - absolutely - but why Hep A?
Liz

It is mentioned quite a few times throughout but it means the 'substances' that are the result of sinning (if you get my drift) - peccans means sinner so it might well have its origins in the so called original sin - hence the chicken and egg remark

Joy
materia peccans?
i don't recall that phrase. off the top, do you remember where it is in the organon?
tanya

thanks. will look up the sections.
tanya

Liz, if I may try to answer your question............
Simply you were a "healthy carrier" of the hepatitis A virus who stayed silent and kept in check within your system by a working, very active immune system, or if you prefer to call it differently a very active vital force.
Once you arrived in the UK, when you started settling down, lowered the adrenaline rush if you want, your immune system/vital force toned down and the susceptibility to the virus fired up, the rest is history.
That has happened many times to me when working with highly contagious patient during "flu" epidemics: I do not have the time or the luxury to be sick, so I do not become sick, then (and nowadays it is almost a conscious decision) I decide "OK, now my immune system can get to training camp" and I get all the symptoms and signs of the current disease. I know it, I am ready for it, I even enjoy the rest and the pampering that comes with it.
The ability to fight a disease or the susceptibility to it is not only a factor of intrinsic health or of extrinsic conditions (pollution, weather conditions, emotional/psychological situations) but fluctuates like everything that is alive: that is what we call a biorhythm. That biorhythm is said to be regular and many small programmes are available to show you your own biorhythm, but it is strongly influenced by all the external factors and your inner health too, including nutrition.
Sometimes one single factor is changing that disturbs the whole balance, the equilibrium, and it is then considered as a causative factor by exclusion, and listed as being "THE" cause of the named disease. Sometimes it is true but only for that specific person at that specific time; personal example again: when I was working for the NHS we went through a small but intense flu epidemic. I was at a peak of physical, mental and emotional health at that time, but one day I saw 52 patients during the day, 40 of them with that flu, who were coughing and sneezing in my face. The viral load was too intense, the same evening I came up with the flu....contagion, yes, despite a non-hospitable terrain, but overload and the first line of defense could not cope any more, so I had to create a fever, mobilise the NK WBC, start producing high levels of immunoglobulins and all the other cytokines in order to control the "invasion". And even though I stayed home, my wife and 2 kids did not catch it, same state of health but not overwhelmed with many viruses that were already mostly under control, hence no disease but if swabs had been taken from their noses and throats, they would probably have been positive.
Very rarely are there straight, linear cause-effect links: if I punch your nose, it will be broken, that is a linear causal factor, like many traumas and accidents. How well you will heal, cope with it and react, that becomes multi-factorial, a pattern, that is very individual.
OK????
Joe.
 
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com

Ok - that's my belief too. But why Hep A?

Well one thing is that scrupulous hygiene didn't stop you 'getting it' And Dr Roz' answer is another good example but why Hep A - then that is on your susceptibility list obviously and (assuming) this was not a happy time for you so the susceptibility was already awakened - probably a weak liver without showing sx before this or maybe it had only you know that but it seems your children have inherited the susceptibility as well and you had a mini epidemic (needing the same rx?) - worth keeping this in mind when they get ill with other conditions/named diseases as their livers also could be weak and be the focus of their cases. If there had been many others around you they would only have become ill if their susceptibility was open to it - the 'infection' is conceptual and whatever microbes are involved would bounce off others with no signs or sx showing.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/