That is where our "education" as alleged impartial observers should kick in, do everything and anything without preconception...obviously that is not the case as has become clear...
Of course, just looking at a person can give you indications, especially on how to behave: when I have a woman wearing a full headscarf or a female Orthodox Jewish fellow Ashkenazi coming to the clinic, I know better than extending my hand for a shake, and if they come alone and I need a physical exam, I would ask formal permission to touch and call my wife to be present. When I have a Maori family in my rooms, I know better than to touch their head, and especially the children's ones, without asking permission, and so on: it is called cultural sensitivity or simply common courtesy.
That being said, we all discuss freely our differences. All my patients know who I am, my political views, my philosophical leanings, my lacking of belief system, etc, it is common knowledge in a small city. We discuss theology, especially with Reborn Christians, it is always fun, always reaches the same conclusions, but nobody feels uncomfortable. Talking about nutrition we always touch on ethnic foods and traditional, familial and national dishes with sentences like "your guys are from Northern China? So your dishes are XYZ, adapt those to here this or that way..." Or arguing with Maori people is fun when we talk about their origins in Taiwan and the travels that brought them here, immigrants like all of us. This is normal talk between people. It becomes racist and unacceptable when our differences become the source of conflict, not because of politics or philosophy/religion but because the way we look, we dress, we speak.
Ordinary racism is not mobbing and lynching and segregation; it is the little daily things like avoiding being dealt with by a teller/employee of a specific race/ethnicity/tribe/nationality...you see what I mean.
We, mostly, as a nation, value our differences; we like technicolour instead of monochrome; we like to attend festivals and celebration of "others" and enjoy their company; and when someone has done us wrong, we do not hesitate to search reparation without fear of being labelled racist: that is called civilisation.
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
PotUS change to negative images of remedies
-
Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
Hi Soroush,
You know very well how much turmoil the US is in. Or you should. Stirring a cesspool as you did just is not wise. Sorry, I don't believe that you are an innocent foreigner. If you wanted to wake up a German at the rise of Hitler, I have a feeling that there would have been a better way to do it.
What the results of that shouting match reminded me of is how I would react if Mr. T came to seek homeopathic treatment from me? Where would I find the spiritual strength to deal with such a person? Maybe Sherry would have no problems, but there would be someone on the other side of the line from her who would be equally problematic.
For many people who are not homeopaths, but are American, it is like that as they try to communicate with their neighbors and co-workers. How to communicate is a huge problem across solidly drawn lines is the issue.
If we don't want to be sitting ducks for the rise of Nazi Germany in the US, then we have to get a grip on this. Hunker down really low and communicate about what matters. We can't be guided by the Media, muckrakers or name callers. Each incident of low behavior on either side of the line requires reconsideration.
Blessings,
Ellen
You know very well how much turmoil the US is in. Or you should. Stirring a cesspool as you did just is not wise. Sorry, I don't believe that you are an innocent foreigner. If you wanted to wake up a German at the rise of Hitler, I have a feeling that there would have been a better way to do it.
What the results of that shouting match reminded me of is how I would react if Mr. T came to seek homeopathic treatment from me? Where would I find the spiritual strength to deal with such a person? Maybe Sherry would have no problems, but there would be someone on the other side of the line from her who would be equally problematic.
For many people who are not homeopaths, but are American, it is like that as they try to communicate with their neighbors and co-workers. How to communicate is a huge problem across solidly drawn lines is the issue.
If we don't want to be sitting ducks for the rise of Nazi Germany in the US, then we have to get a grip on this. Hunker down really low and communicate about what matters. We can't be guided by the Media, muckrakers or name callers. Each incident of low behavior on either side of the line requires reconsideration.
Blessings,
Ellen
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
Dear Dr. Roz,
Thank-you for that beautiful description of being genuine. Genuine talk across cultural/political lines is so unusual. It is hard for me to remember what is possible.
Is it the mind of the practitioner who makes this kind of down to earth remembering our humanity possible? Every day I am pulled in to this or that behavioral/emotional dogma. These days I notice that my gut tightens up as I am told to toe the line. I am unable to feel gravity and become some kind of twisted marionette conforming to yet another dogma, or sign of personal tyranny. Letting go of all those should be xyz requires a good deal of self-awareness. Feeling what is right for me, the way I was built and allowing others to be the way they were built. It is hard to feel others if you yourself are being tied up by uncomfortable should be insinuations.
It is more subtle than knowing not to touch the head of a Maori child.
Blessings,
Ellen
Thank-you for that beautiful description of being genuine. Genuine talk across cultural/political lines is so unusual. It is hard for me to remember what is possible.
Is it the mind of the practitioner who makes this kind of down to earth remembering our humanity possible? Every day I am pulled in to this or that behavioral/emotional dogma. These days I notice that my gut tightens up as I am told to toe the line. I am unable to feel gravity and become some kind of twisted marionette conforming to yet another dogma, or sign of personal tyranny. Letting go of all those should be xyz requires a good deal of self-awareness. Feeling what is right for me, the way I was built and allowing others to be the way they were built. It is hard to feel others if you yourself are being tied up by uncomfortable should be insinuations.
It is more subtle than knowing not to touch the head of a Maori child.
Blessings,
Ellen
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
OMG--it is hard to give at quick and simple answer as there are volumes of material written along with
numerous studies. Perhaps what I can say is that racism is about power relations and entitlements.
This plays out in 100's of ways on a daily basis. One concept is called micro-aggressions. This is how
racism manifests like deat from a million cuts. It imay involve lower expectations of people of color,
or distrust of their ability to perform. It can manifest with teachers accusing kids of oolor for not
writing their own good papers or not being listened to with trust. It can manifest with parents holding
a child closer to them as tey walk down a street when a person of color approches. Or how people of
color automatically get followed around a store no matter how well they are dressed. Perhaps you can
remember an experience Oprah had when traveling in Italy a few years ago--no different than what
happens in the US. It happens when nice white people, all the good Liberals, refuse to accept the
self-determination of people of color to define their own reality and experience of racism. Or the
racial profiling of police. We have a statement about this that says "Stopped for driving while being
Black!" Of course we can count all the murders by police of people of color for minor infractions, or
even doing nothing. Or the extra violence of police in public schools against young children of color.
I think of one case of a young girl in a classroom whe had a cell phone. A cop came in to the room
and grabbed her by her hair and dragged her out the room. Good reason for never having cops in
schools. Another case of a young child about age 6 or 7 who was manhandled by a cop because he
had a melt down in class. He was dragged out, cuffed, taken to the police station and cuffed to a
radiator for several hours without his parents being called. These acts of excessive violence against
children/people of color are a daily occurrence. I have watched our 'good, liberal' teachres repeat
like a mantra "why can't we just be nice to each other' when confronted with the uncomfortable
reality of structural and personal racism that manifests daily. I have watched over the years how
school dirstricts avoid dealing with racism, even spending 10's of 1000's of dollars pretending to do
training. They always fail because of how they structure things and never let anything real happen.
I have personallly written (along with others) protocol for hiring more people of color, twice I did this.
Each time the protocola became district policy and then they were forgotten. This past month I had
to take the superintendent to task, in public, for talking about writing a hiring protocol --again! She
was only concerned with being called out, but the audience seemed to get the message. I worked on
developing a multi-cultural conference that has been ongoing for at least 20 yrs now. I and my group
have run numerous workshops at these conferences, some of them regarding he experiences of
teachers, administrators and students of color in our schools. It is always the same stories of blatant
as well as micro-aggressions. Last year we supported a school guidance counselor who was hired for
being Black and fired for the same reason. She was literally told this to her face, the school feeling so
entitled they thought nothing ot tellling her. She took it upon herself to sue the district for discrimination
even knowing they would have her blacklisted, which they did and her career was killed. Despite the
fact that she was one of the most successfull guidance counselors, they took this as threat instead of
and asset. She had to get another degree in a different field and leave the area to get work. Not the
first time this has happened. Is this enough?
t
forever., but do look up micro-aggressions or structural racism. Lots to read.
numerous studies. Perhaps what I can say is that racism is about power relations and entitlements.
This plays out in 100's of ways on a daily basis. One concept is called micro-aggressions. This is how
racism manifests like deat from a million cuts. It imay involve lower expectations of people of color,
or distrust of their ability to perform. It can manifest with teachers accusing kids of oolor for not
writing their own good papers or not being listened to with trust. It can manifest with parents holding
a child closer to them as tey walk down a street when a person of color approches. Or how people of
color automatically get followed around a store no matter how well they are dressed. Perhaps you can
remember an experience Oprah had when traveling in Italy a few years ago--no different than what
happens in the US. It happens when nice white people, all the good Liberals, refuse to accept the
self-determination of people of color to define their own reality and experience of racism. Or the
racial profiling of police. We have a statement about this that says "Stopped for driving while being
Black!" Of course we can count all the murders by police of people of color for minor infractions, or
even doing nothing. Or the extra violence of police in public schools against young children of color.
I think of one case of a young girl in a classroom whe had a cell phone. A cop came in to the room
and grabbed her by her hair and dragged her out the room. Good reason for never having cops in
schools. Another case of a young child about age 6 or 7 who was manhandled by a cop because he
had a melt down in class. He was dragged out, cuffed, taken to the police station and cuffed to a
radiator for several hours without his parents being called. These acts of excessive violence against
children/people of color are a daily occurrence. I have watched our 'good, liberal' teachres repeat
like a mantra "why can't we just be nice to each other' when confronted with the uncomfortable
reality of structural and personal racism that manifests daily. I have watched over the years how
school dirstricts avoid dealing with racism, even spending 10's of 1000's of dollars pretending to do
training. They always fail because of how they structure things and never let anything real happen.
I have personallly written (along with others) protocol for hiring more people of color, twice I did this.
Each time the protocola became district policy and then they were forgotten. This past month I had
to take the superintendent to task, in public, for talking about writing a hiring protocol --again! She
was only concerned with being called out, but the audience seemed to get the message. I worked on
developing a multi-cultural conference that has been ongoing for at least 20 yrs now. I and my group
have run numerous workshops at these conferences, some of them regarding he experiences of
teachers, administrators and students of color in our schools. It is always the same stories of blatant
as well as micro-aggressions. Last year we supported a school guidance counselor who was hired for
being Black and fired for the same reason. She was literally told this to her face, the school feeling so
entitled they thought nothing ot tellling her. She took it upon herself to sue the district for discrimination
even knowing they would have her blacklisted, which they did and her career was killed. Despite the
fact that she was one of the most successfull guidance counselors, they took this as threat instead of
and asset. She had to get another degree in a different field and leave the area to get work. Not the
first time this has happened. Is this enough?
t
forever., but do look up micro-aggressions or structural racism. Lots to read.
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
Yes, Joe. You are so correct in your descriptions. It is about real respect for our fellow hman beings and knowing
that we cannot make any assumptions. And it has to do with being willing to critique yourself and your own
belief systems, not all of which are religious. I can say that being touched by a stranger has always felt invasive to me and
this has nothing to do with religion or cultural beliefs Perhaps it has more to do, at least with me, with sexism and
how people feel they can be free with their hands on women as if they owned you. Much of what you describe is
what has come to be termed Micro-aggressions. in the social sciences. And it is very sad that homeopaths have the
same difficulty in seeing their own prejudices.
t
that we cannot make any assumptions. And it has to do with being willing to critique yourself and your own
belief systems, not all of which are religious. I can say that being touched by a stranger has always felt invasive to me and
this has nothing to do with religion or cultural beliefs Perhaps it has more to do, at least with me, with sexism and
how people feel they can be free with their hands on women as if they owned you. Much of what you describe is
what has come to be termed Micro-aggressions. in the social sciences. And it is very sad that homeopaths have the
same difficulty in seeing their own prejudices.
t
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
The problem Ellen is that people like to think of themselves as free of prejudices and react really badly if criticized.
And given the nature of Gognitive Dissonance, people often have strong atennas for criticism and begin to react
defensively before you even get your thoughts out. And this, too, regardless of how tactful or soft as you try to be.
There is also a problem that people think they can critique their own behavior as if they can see themselves as
others experience them. This is often not true. Then, despite your cautionary comment at the end of your post,
people are very much affected by the mass media and its images constantly broadcast which create their own
message. It is virtually impossible to avoid this contact unless you live isolated as a monk might. We are all creatures
of our culture, on the large as well as the small level. it takes some real commitment to study the 'isms' of our
world and how we participate in them. And even harder work to undo the learnings of our childhood and later
years. I have been working on this kind of issue for many years and it is a bear to get people to hear that they have
been racist or bigotted even when they didn't think they were or meant to be.
t
And given the nature of Gognitive Dissonance, people often have strong atennas for criticism and begin to react
defensively before you even get your thoughts out. And this, too, regardless of how tactful or soft as you try to be.
There is also a problem that people think they can critique their own behavior as if they can see themselves as
others experience them. This is often not true. Then, despite your cautionary comment at the end of your post,
people are very much affected by the mass media and its images constantly broadcast which create their own
message. It is virtually impossible to avoid this contact unless you live isolated as a monk might. We are all creatures
of our culture, on the large as well as the small level. it takes some real commitment to study the 'isms' of our
world and how we participate in them. And even harder work to undo the learnings of our childhood and later
years. I have been working on this kind of issue for many years and it is a bear to get people to hear that they have
been racist or bigotted even when they didn't think they were or meant to be.
t
-
Ellen Madono
- Posts: 2012
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:00 pm
Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
I like this term Microaggression. You can talk about all the protocols you want, but I can't deal at the micro-level. I am a nice liberal. I taught in inner-city schools of Pittsburgh. A hopeless situation to begin with, but also, I could not handle the many layers of microaggression, to put it mildly. I found that jazz band musician types were really good. They could handle a crowd. The American way is probably to quit relating at the micro level. Just do crowd control. That seemed to be all teachers talked about.
Glad to be a homeopath. Glad you, Tanya, are out there worrying about policy. I just want to be able to be effective with microaggression.
Ellen
Glad to be a homeopath. Glad you, Tanya, are out there worrying about policy. I just want to be able to be effective with microaggression.
Ellen
-
Soroush Ebrahimi
- Moderator
- Posts: 4510
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:00 pm
Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
Dear Allen
All you have to say is that Platina does not fit Trump. It is that simple!
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:49 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
Soroush - Clearly, you think you are being clever but your insincerity
is very evident and easy to see through. Your insistence on keeping
things on a low level will only aggravate the situation and prevent
any possibility of any true healing. You are the maintaining cause
that will keep the irritation and dis-ease going for as long as you
continue. And, of course, your efforts appeal to the low minded and
uninformed who wait for the opportunity to come along where they can
once again throw in some barbs of hatred and intolerance at all of
those of "the right" who clearly cannot know anything because their
political playbook says that is not possible. After all, anyone not of
their tribe are all racists, bigots, homophobes, xenophobes, etc. so
they are by definition worthless human beings who do not deserve any
respect or to even be listened to. In fact, such people do not even
deserve to live and that has become the dominant theme of the
professional haters as they preach to all about white privilege and
how all whites should be murdered. For you poor souls who do not
believe that any of this is possible or happening, this is the
official working policy of large numbers of so called "leftists" who
preach these things every day. "Impossible", you say. My God, when
will you wake up and take a look? But do not look at the fake news
sites such as CNN, NBC< Fox, etc.. Look where you will find the truth.
If you want peace, you will find it, Soroush - and friendship and love
as well. If you want to continue playing your games as you have just
done (I await your incredulous response and protestations of
innocence) then you will have war. But those who provoke a war will
never in it. They never have and they never will because war steals
the life from all those who engage in it. You began this latest round
and you and your little haters will continue it with their uninformed
commentary. It will not end until you decide to stop what you are
doing.
If anyone would like to listen to rational, sane, and informative real
news commentary every day, please contact me and I will put you on my
mailing list from which you will receive information on all the things
that have been discussed here in the past several days. Please write
to me at allen73call@gmail.com
All you have to say is that Platina does not fit Trump. It is that simple!
Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:49 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
Soroush - Clearly, you think you are being clever but your insincerity
is very evident and easy to see through. Your insistence on keeping
things on a low level will only aggravate the situation and prevent
any possibility of any true healing. You are the maintaining cause
that will keep the irritation and dis-ease going for as long as you
continue. And, of course, your efforts appeal to the low minded and
uninformed who wait for the opportunity to come along where they can
once again throw in some barbs of hatred and intolerance at all of
those of "the right" who clearly cannot know anything because their
political playbook says that is not possible. After all, anyone not of
their tribe are all racists, bigots, homophobes, xenophobes, etc. so
they are by definition worthless human beings who do not deserve any
respect or to even be listened to. In fact, such people do not even
deserve to live and that has become the dominant theme of the
professional haters as they preach to all about white privilege and
how all whites should be murdered. For you poor souls who do not
believe that any of this is possible or happening, this is the
official working policy of large numbers of so called "leftists" who
preach these things every day. "Impossible", you say. My God, when
will you wake up and take a look? But do not look at the fake news
sites such as CNN, NBC< Fox, etc.. Look where you will find the truth.
If you want peace, you will find it, Soroush - and friendship and love
as well. If you want to continue playing your games as you have just
done (I await your incredulous response and protestations of
innocence) then you will have war. But those who provoke a war will
never in it. They never have and they never will because war steals
the life from all those who engage in it. You began this latest round
and you and your little haters will continue it with their uninformed
commentary. It will not end until you decide to stop what you are
doing.
If anyone would like to listen to rational, sane, and informative real
news commentary every day, please contact me and I will put you on my
mailing list from which you will receive information on all the things
that have been discussed here in the past several days. Please write
to me at allen73call@gmail.com
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
I do get you and your experience Ellen, quite well actually. But find it interesting that you find dealing on the microaggression level easier than
the policy level. I think both levels have their challenges which can be too frustrating for words. I survive it because I learned years ago to not
work alone as it will certainly drain the life out of you. We need others to keep us feeling validated and help prop up our sagging spirits when
needed. On this level, I can share that it took almost 20 yrs before other groups began to form around issues of racism and this has been both
frustrating and heartening. I am not in an inner city school district but my daughter certainly is. There are plusses and minuses for both settings
but the issues are often the same--structural racism. This seems to be the hardest thing for people to understand.: it requires being able to look
outside the immediate situation and see the patterns and how they operate. I guess my brain is wired to perceive on this level and my background
in sociology as well as my years of living in ghettos certainly educated me for doing this.
t
the policy level. I think both levels have their challenges which can be too frustrating for words. I survive it because I learned years ago to not
work alone as it will certainly drain the life out of you. We need others to keep us feeling validated and help prop up our sagging spirits when
needed. On this level, I can share that it took almost 20 yrs before other groups began to form around issues of racism and this has been both
frustrating and heartening. I am not in an inner city school district but my daughter certainly is. There are plusses and minuses for both settings
but the issues are often the same--structural racism. This seems to be the hardest thing for people to understand.: it requires being able to look
outside the immediate situation and see the patterns and how they operate. I guess my brain is wired to perceive on this level and my background
in sociology as well as my years of living in ghettos certainly educated me for doing this.
t
-
Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: PotUS change to negative images of remedies
It is indeed subtle, but not that much as you have learned to recognise it when it happens to you.
I do not think we can really avoid biases based on...life basically. But when we know them, we can modulate our actions taking them into account or simply avoid the whole event. I have refused to take on blatantly anti-Semitic patients, knowing quite well that I would not be objective, quite the contrary I might even be harmful...but I did treat a few racists; not easy but a good challenge...not sure if I did modify their behaviours though, as for them, racism is not pathological.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz
I do not think we can really avoid biases based on...life basically. But when we know them, we can modulate our actions taking them into account or simply avoid the whole event. I have refused to take on blatantly anti-Semitic patients, knowing quite well that I would not be objective, quite the contrary I might even be harmful...but I did treat a few racists; not easy but a good challenge...not sure if I did modify their behaviours though, as for them, racism is not pathological.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
www.naturamedica.co.nz