Minutus

And also this story is about a cycle. When Bilbo first met Gollum in his
human form they were friends but this was corrupted and it died when the
power of the ring first intercepted and seduced gollum into his final
penance - the cycle is repeated when Frodo is given the chance to redeem
what has gone before and he takes with him Sam on this journey of
'correction'. Gollum is there trying to spoil it but it turns out ok, this
is the second chance to do it right - and on and on the world goes. It's
life. Mortals die but evil doesn't, Gollum doesn't ever really die.

Best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 24/9/04 4:41 pm, Bob&Shannon at shannonnelson@tds.net wrote:

I would say that Frodo's will is *one* -- e.g. to perform his task or die
trying. The influence he fights against is not from within himself, but is
the direct "toxicity" of the Ring he carries. So he is not making any
*choice* re good and evil; he is simply fighting a battle. Anyway, that's
my reading. Also, Frodo has had no drive to "prove" himself -- to himself
or anyone else -- but simply does what needs doing. I don't see any
pathology there...
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with what you say and it puts it into a nutshell - if you forgive
the anacardium pun

Liz has certainly got us going and I was talking to someone about Tolkien
who I believe had some german background and his name interestingly
translates as something along the lines of 'hard and soft' 'good and bad' -
maybe our german speakers can help here.

Anyway he was pretty much an academic and I am sure the religion influence
comes into this as does his fascination with languages which has a solid
representation in the book. But he was British mainly and this also has to
be taken into account with his view of the world. As far as I know he wrote
the book to try and get his scholars to be interested in languages.

Regarding the Hyos and Mancinella points - there are many remedies that can
have their bold type/redline symptoms segregated and apparently missing but
there are just as many that cannot. For example, can you imagine an
arsenicum that is not restless, a silicea that is not cold, a sepia that
does not have stasis - countless examples really.

Mancinella, to me, has to have that sexual element, whereas with Hyos the so
called sexual side is all gesture 'foolish behaviour' which evolves out of a
threatening situation. There is madness, jealousy (of the other self),
suspicious, feels persecuted (by the other self). Gollum is naked and at
times lewd but there is a huge difference between sexuality and lewdness -
they are not the same thing. In Hyos it is lust - lusting after the ring =
greedy and grabbing.

Hyos has a sense of alternating states - active mania versus deep sopor +
hides away versus excited and shameless, so there is room for duality moving
between these 2 states.

Hyos has delusion of being in a debate, converses with people, muttering
delirium, they are possessed and trapped. Gollum is frequently found talking
to his other self, between the good and bad (the bad is the devil, delusion
is possessed of a devil). Delusion persecuted, on a journey (that never ends
in this case). Hyos is also very good at inciting others to do the same -
this is the sneaky side of Gollum. Hyos reproaches himself and others and
complains of the injustice that he imagines has been done to him (the human
form he once was but now destined always to be in penance and dualistic
turmoil).

Hyos has much mucous in the larynx which makes the voice and speech unclear.
The plant grows well on 'bad' ground and has a pretty horrible smell.

Having said all this I am sure there are many remedies which could fit this
being but, at the end of day, one has to ask "what needs to be cured" and if
Gollum is trapped in his own punishment for being greedy (my choice of
definition) then that is a reasonable starting point.

In the face of adversity Frodo survived, he adapted to what life threw at
him and thus there is nothing to be cured.

To be continued I am sure

best wishes, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 24/9/04 11:47 am, d_barbara_hamilton at d_barbara_hamilton@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:
Glad you said that Joy, as these are 'archetypes' of Tolkien's
making, so based on his
understanding and his observation of human nature - so perhaps it was
he who needed
a remedy like Anacardium, Mancinella, etc., etc.? What perhaps it is
portraying
beautifully however, is that there is good and bad in all of us, and
that disowning that
part of ourselves represented by Gollum and Saruman (sp.?) i.e.
murderous, greedy,
manipulative and false, is a scapegoating of which we are all guilty
at some, or all of
our lives.

Joy wrote:
deranged state
without the

But you did think Hyos., and the sexual element is not represented at
all. Having said
that, it was intended to be read by a wide age range, so not
surprising that any sexual
connotations were not included really ! Not sure it would be
appropriate to hear what
Gollum really got up to on his own ... (Bufo ?)

Regards, Barbara

===============
I will attempt to contribute to the context of the exercise with the
following:
---If we assume that few, if any; incarnate (take a physical body
through birth) without a fate (it may be impossible to do so)---then
Frodo will have a constitution, a fate, susceptibilities, as does
everyone else. Therefore there is always "something to be cured",
something to be resonated with. The question resides with "does it
need to be"? Frodo suffers in his curriculum, and at the end remains
"uncured" and unable to remain in the Shire, as his experiences have
shown him higher overarching realities--the areas of proctorship, as
are the domain of wizards like Gandalf. When one encounters those
realities, "the thrill is gone" , and one needs a new curricular
context. One is ready to "move on" beyond the birth and death cycle of
a particular planet or realm. This is why Frodo must leave with the
already "ascended" (Elrond and the Elves). He and Gandalf have
performed their tasks and can move on to another set of tasks and
experiences beyond 3D mixed with hidden 4D full of discarnates out to
control and destroy (ie "evil").

Frodo did well on this plane, followed the compass of the good despite
temptation. He has a pattern as does everyone else born of womb. There
is something there to resonate with, that could theoretically shift his
fate. But giving a remedy for his curriculum and his 3D wounds may
not have been enough to allow him to successfully live in the Shire
after experiencing the highest level of the drama of duality. The life
in the Shire is communitarian and jolly as was Celtic Europe of
Stonehenge and Glastonbury. But in the context of the "prison" of
duality which the journey of the Fellowship made clear to him, the
Shire probably seemed too pedantic for Frodo. Could a remedy have
allowed him to again feel satisfaction living there, as if it was
"enough"? Possibly not. So while there by definition must always be
something to "cure"-- that is influencable by resonance-- if one is in
a body; questions of the SCOPE of resonant therapeutics also come
into play. Sometimes a life is just complete and a change of scenery
is all that will suffice for that being. Undoubtedly that was the case
with Gandalf, who was fully aware, after having been "reborn", that he
had tasks to do here, and then would be "done" with Middle Earth*. So,
in the end, the idea that "there is nothing to be cured" in the cases
of Gandalf and Frodo is for all practical purposes, probably correct.

*Note also that Bilbo and (Elrond I think-as was the elven host,
Elves being masters of 4D here in service of evolution of the souls on
the planet) were also on the ship leaving the Grey Havens.

=========
Regarding the ability of remedies to match someone perfectly:
---homeopathic rx are approximations, facsimiles in most of our
prescrips. The variation in human "constitution" and fate has a high
number of permutations--being in high likelihood based on inherited
(DNA code material and life force "taint") input, place of birth, and
the many combinations of the variables of the astrological
mandala--sign sectors, house sectors, and the involved
planet/planetoid/star configuration which is providing the influence
during gestation and culminates in the moment of full incarnation at
birth. An individual life transpires via changes in the etheric (4D)
influences of the solar and stellar systems as they make angular
relationship to those patterns "crystallized" in an individual
constitution as part of the 3D constitution. Finding the exact match
to the individual and their "curriculum" is possible, but involves more
than the palette of remedies that we know of as the "polychrests".

Most of the time we must zig-zag, as we are providing a close
approximation of the configuration of fate, not its idem. The remedy
for Gollum may well be hyoscyamus; is certainly a very strong
possibility, and would likely act in the case as it is a close match.
Perhaps Mancinella also would act. But the "simillimum" could also
be a remedy which is not fleshed out well by proving and cliinical use
and is not involved in the discussion. It also could be a remedy not
yet realistically in our palette that must be uncovered initially by
other than semiological (eg signs and symptoms) means.

======
Regarding the congruence of archetypes:
The creator of a written new "myth" (like the Lord of the Rings) draws
on archetypes, human traits, imagination, and influences from the
unseen and from their own being to tell a story. Tolkien was a scholar
with a database of material from language and mythology, mostly
involving the lore and magical tradition of the British Isles and the
culture and language of the middle ages. His stories to me feel like a
combination of Quasi-feudal (ie Arthurian, Grail Quest) middle ages
epic story with scriptural and transcendental vision of a story of this
entire human age, which is close to its end (Mayan Calendar has 8 years
left on it, all human systems are nearing a turning point). The
dualistic battle between external 3D reality and its rulers (who are
close to final defacto control of the entire external world) and the
internal world of knowledge (individuals who know better than to follow
the controlled news medias and governments) will culminate in our
lifetime.

When a STORY is RESONANT, it becomes popular as truth in it resonates
with internal knowledge (much of it unremembered and unconscious in an
individuals, who multiplied become the collective. The great cinematic
stories (in which the Trilogy is now forever included) tend to be the
best approximations of reality (by analogy), just as the "polychrests"
tend to be the best, or most easily apprehended, approximations of
individual realities, though we always need to look more broadly for
the better "bullseye". The characterizations in a well-written script
will have an internal consistency which remarkably almost always
matches a common human archetypal pattern "slot". How this happens is
beyond our usual rational consideration, but involves how any of us are
informed---unseen influences and storages of information within
beingness and the world itself are involved.

The movies and literature are there to inform humanity of its own
history, nature, and future. Those authors with the most congruent
"channelling" from within themselves almost always produce stories in
which the "remedy typologies" are internally consistent. All
mythologies and archetypal forms have at their root the motion of the
planets and such influence--the "Gods" of mythology were and are the
luminaries and planets and their influence--producing fate programs and
life curricula. All remedies also have those forcing functions at
their genesis, and all people. So when story is congruent and
resonant, it matches well the nature of the forcing functions which are
common to all things and living creatures.

Just working hypotheses am contributing to the discussion ideas which I
hope are contributory.

========
Liz's project is a great exercise. But like the difficulty of choosing
an rx in any case, it is easy to jump to conclusions which can never be
confirmed without giving the rx. Finding what it is that is awry,
what detriment the fate forcing function has caused and the best
resonance of the moment which can shore up the carnage or "turn the
tide" of that patterned fate, requires a mastery of materia medica and
a willingness to look beyond. That is why this exercise is so valuable
and entertaining, IMO. The Books and movie provide lots of "case"
information about many cases in one--much less laborious than trying to
look between the lines of an elicited case in person. Each character
is already painted for us---makes it an enjoyable exercise, and one
which is good training as well, IMO.

Musings;
AH

True and very inspiring, I loved what you wrote. My uncle in law has
recieved the greatest honours from countries all over the world for the
children he took across the Swiss border in the 2nd World War. BUT why was
he willing to do that, within each constitutional picture you have to see
the one homoeopathic tug that inspires someone to do that AND it will always
reflect back to their constitutional picture.

Joy consider this?????
"Frodo is chosen by the council of Elves and the future King Aragorn, and by
the great wizard Gandalf to be the only one who has the capacity to carry
the Ring because the desire of Anacardium to prove themselves will give him
the fuel needed to carry him to the Fires of Mount Doom so that the Ring can
be caste in the mountain and be destroyed forever. Gandalf also chooses
Frodo knowing he will in the end be unable to resist the power the Ring will
have over him. The story of Frodo's struggle with the possession of the Ring
is the struggle of good over evil; it is an integral struggle that goes on
within the nature of Anacardium all the time. "These two sides of Anacardium
are constantly in opposition to each other: should he be an angel or a
devil." [Sankaran] Gollum is in the homoeopathic constitutional state of
Mancinella and the Ring reflects an obsessive need within the nature of
Mancinella driving him to once again possess and be protected by "his
precious." It is the compulsive drive of the obsessive Mancinella within
Gollum which eventually saves Middle-earth because the Anacardium state of
Frodo eventually succumbs to his desire for worldly importance and he cannot
caste the Ring into the Fires of Mount Doom.

Within Frodo is an Anacardium desire to prove himself and be important - it
is this particular desire to prove himself that makes him vulnerable to the
power of the Ring and he cannot stop moving into the "evil" [Kent], side of
the homoeopathic constitutional state of Anacardium. Within the split
obsessive identity of Gollum is a crisis which defines him as the
homoeopathic constitution Mancinella and not just a character who is
suffering from dissociative identity disorder or an obsessive compulsive
disorder. Gollum has been deprived of his "precious," and until he is able
to regain what he lost he is vulnerable to the panic attacks of Mancinella.
Gollum is possessed by his own thoughts and has long ago lost any memory of
a sense of self when he was not controlled, and possessed by the Ring.
Gollum is confronted by his own fears of a world without the power of the
Ring to protect him - Gollum is in a "like" Mancinella state. Frodo because
he is in an Anacardium "like" state needs the recognition of greatness that
accomplishing a great deed can give. As to whether Frodo was in an
Anacardium state before he came into possession of the Ring is not possible
to ascertain from the story as told by Tolkien. The mere fact of Frodo's
orphaned state, his adoption by Bilbo, and the fact that he has stayed in
his position within the shire with Sam as his servant; sets the scene for
Frodo's emotional propensity to move into Anacardium and to be Anacardium.
Frodo already within the tale displays a need to have the world acknowledge
his importance by proving himself as being a notable person within the
shire. Tolkien is concerned only with telling a story and tale of great
bravery, and with recounting a story of how peril, and the desire for power
affects a simple person. This homoeopathic essay is about the nature of the
Anacardium need for power from the Ring within Frodo the Hobbit, and the
dissociated pain and hold of an obsessed and disturbed Mancinella mind in
the character of Gollum.
Notable Characteristics of Anacardium
? "Tries to prove himself." [Vermeulen] Anacardium feel that at
some point in their childhood, they didn't count. Anacardium fear being
ignored by the world.
? Anacardium suffer with intense fears of being "left out in the
cold" and shunned by the world. Anacardium has no "I" within the self. There
is a peculiar delusion that Anacardium sees everyone's face in the mirror
and not his own. Anacardium suffers from the loss of an identity of knowing
who they are. The disintegration of "I" or "self" drives Anacardium to do
the "right" thing. Anacardium only know who they are when they receive
praise from the world for their actions. Frodo before he came into
possession of the Ring saw himself as insignificant. After the adventure and
quest is over he once again sinks into insignificance in the shire, and
Pippin and Merry and Sam become the heroes of the quest. Frodo's need to be
the Ring-bearer, and offer himself to the council is reflective of an
Anacardium need to be praised. Anacardium suffer from a fear that there is
something wrong with them, and they continually need to strive to prove it
is not correct.
"He is at odds with the world, and has little confidence in himself being
able to accomplish what is demanded of him." P.279. [Hahnemann].
? Anacardium suffer from anxiety about being judged or found out to
be flawed.
"Internal anguish, which did not allow him to rest, he troubled himself
about every trifle, as if it would cause great injury, with solicitude about
the future." P.279. [Hahnemann].
Frodo is the first to admit to Sam at the end of the journey, at the chasm
of the Fires of Mordor that he had failed in his quest. Gandalf had been
right in predicting the role of Gollum and the power of the Ring over Frodo.
If had not been for the obsessive Gollum grabbing the Ring off Frodo at the
last minute, and accidentally falling into the Fires of Mordor he would have
failed in the quest because he could not choose to relinquish the power and
fame the Ring offered him. In the first interaction with Gandalf about the
importance of the One Ring Frodo reveals the two sides to his personality
that make up the nature of Anacardium - Gandalf clearly points out to Frodo
in this interaction that the Ring has already got a hold, and to take it
from him would drive him mad. Frodo already displays a split within his own
consciousness; he in fact already wants to keep the Ring and Gandalf points
that out to Frodo, as well as also acknowledging that if anyone was going to
be able to complete this perilous mission it would be Frodo."

Yes I think that is a good analyse of what the book is about for Tolkien. He
wrote a tale of a powerful Ring that could offer to the Ring-bearer
everything their hearts had always desired. For Tolkien it was a moralistic
tale of how power can corrupt. What I am interested in is what the Ring can
offer each member is different. The different temptations reveals their
homoeopathic constitutional state.
And Yes there is no Hyos and sex in the tale? It is a tale as you correctly
pointed out about good and evil and how each member of the story is
corrupted by power.

Yes Shannon,

"When Frodo first learns of his inheritance and role as a bearer of One
Ruling Ring and the terrible power it held, he immediately offered the Ring
to the great wizard Gandalf. Gandalf recoils in fear from the Ring because
he knows he does not have the capacity to resist its power. Gandalf tells
Frodo that sooner or later the user of the Ring is overcome by its power;
regardless of the strength of the Ring-bearer and regardless of his desire
to resist its power the evil within the One Ring will eventually overcome
the holder and turn their purpose to evil. No amount of good purpose has any
influence over the destructiveness of the Ring and with continual use the
user will not be able to exist along side of the Ring. Gandalf tells Frodo
early on in the book that any mortal who tries to keep the Ring does not die
and he also does not live. The Ring eventually devours the holder and the
person "fades" the holder eventually grows wearier and his own energy
becomes invisible, he becomes a non entity who is subservient to the
greatness of the One Ring. The moralistic message that comes across in The
Lord of the Rings is that all dark power will eventually destroy and neither
good will, nor purpose, will be able to resist the dark power of evil.
Gandalf is wise enough to know that the power within the Ring would be too
great and terrible, and he would eventually not be able to resist the allure
of his own desire for the power. Gandalf knows he would no longer be Gandalf
the Great he would become Gandalf the Terrible. Gandalf knows that the One
Ring will tempt him by appealing to his desire to do good, and he also knows
he will not be able to resist its power to do terrible evil. Gandalf knows
that Frodo is the only one who is able to carry the One Ring because he has
the capacity to resist its power far longer than anyone else. "

No in the story Tolkien actually does have him die and he needs him to die
in the Fires of Mordor???

Joy I respect what you are saying about the sexual part but this is some of
how I have repertorized Mancinella and Gollum.

Notable Characteristics of Mancinella
Mancinella fear the world. They are frightened, "bashful," [Boericke] about
being in the world without anything to protect them. Mancinella develop
convoluted obsessive compulsive habits, and belief systems, as a way of
having superstitious power over the world. The thought of being alone in the
world without anything to protect them can send them into a very real
intense fear of losing their sanity. Mancinella will obsess over how many
times they turned the key in a lock, or how many cracks they stand on in the
street, or the favorable position of the astrological planets. All are
merely devices of external power to protect their weakness of will and mind.
Mancinella fear the world controlling their mind, and they fear losing
control over their own mind in the world.
? Rubric; Thoughts, vanishing of: [Kent].

? Rubric; Fear, insanity, of: [Kent].

? Rubric; Anxiety, fear, with: [Kent].

? Rubric; Delusion; insane, that she will become: [Kent].

? Rubric; Fear; devil, being taken by the, of: [Kent].

? Rubric; Insanity, madness: [Kent].
The hold the One Ring has on Gollum is integrally tied to how he came to
acquire it. Mancinella suffer from fear of insanity precisely because they
are aware of their own propensity to be overcome with "mania, madness,"
[Kent]. When Gollum first sees the Ring in Déagol's hand he is insane with
his desire to possess it. Gollum feels "discontented" [Kent] and bored
"ennui," [Kent] with his lot in life and feels that he deserves the Ring as
a special "precious" present for his birthday. Déagol refuses to hand the
Ring over and Gollum kills him in a moment of "insanity," [Kent]. Gandalf in
the telling of the history of the One Ring emphasizes to Frodo that the Ring
had given Gollum power only according to his existing stature. Gollum only
used the invisibility powers of the Ring to find out secrets and deceits,
and use them to his advantage over others. The Ring gives Gollum the power
and protection he as Mancinella needs. The Ring also fuels his mania and
madness. The fear of having to face the world without his "precious" also
drove Gollum to the brink of insanity. Gollum takes the Ring and moves deep
underground away from all contact with his family who could either take his
present or discover the murder and how he came into possession of the Ring.

Gandalf in the telling of the story of the Ring to Frodo at the start of The
Fellowship of the Ring confirms the one distinguishing physical
characteristic of Mancinella that confirms the constitutional physicals of
Gollum. Gollum originally used the invisibility powers of the Ring to aid
and abet his thieving and sneaky ways. Gollum was eventually rejected and
cursed by his relatives for his deceit. Gollum came by his name because he
took to going around muttering and gurgling in his throat, so they called
him Gollum because of the noise he made in his throat.
? "Choking sensation in the throat when speaking." [Vermeulen].
Gollum continually chokes and "Gollums" as he tries to speak.
? Rubric; THROAT; choking, constricting: [Kent]. Gollum when tied
around the throat with the Elven rope in The Two Towers screamed with agony.

? Rubric; swallowing, difficult: [Kent]. Gollum choked and coughed
when he tried to eat the lembas Elven bread.
Gollum shunned by his family and consumed with guilt and fear of his crime
being found out, "Fear, Devil, being taken by the, of:" [Kent] worms his way
deep under the mountains away from the sun and moon and all who could see
and spy on him. "Nassty, nassty shivery light it is-sss-it spies on us,
precious-it hurts our eyes." P. 269. [Tolkien] The Two Towers.
? Rubric; EYE; "Pain, sore, bruised, tender:" [Kent].

? Rubric; EYE; "Staring:" [Kent].

? Rubric; GENERALITIES, pain, burning externally: [Kent].
Hippomane mancinella is described as "so poisonous that men die under the
shade of it;...A violent irritant and powerful cathartic, diuretic,
vesicant. The least drop applied to the eye will cause blindness for some
days; the smoke from the wood when burnt will also seriously affect the
eyes. Much used in Cuba for tetanus. Indians use the juice to poison their
arrows." P. 513-514. [Mrs. M. Grieve].

Andy thankyou so much for all the input it has been a great discussion and
obviously one that lots of us have been stimulated by, I posted some of my
repertorizing on Mancinella get back to me about what you think of those
rubrics.
RE HYOS , yes I can see the Rubrics BUT this brings into discussion a very
interesting aspect of case-taking.
Do you repertorize on the charcteristics of a case OR do you repertorize on
the presenting SENSATION within the case????
Does Frodo or is Frodo motivated by the sensation of Hyos?