Minutus

Thanks Joy,

I definitely can understand the value in simply handling what she asked to
have handled! (Also that, at 80, perhaps her remark was simply
realistic...) As much as anything, I was simply curious... Anyway, I will
certainly remember this remedy now!!!!

About the case I'm going to post -- yes, I'm still planning to, and *very*
eager for thoughts on it. I guess the biggest problem has been time to
think thru a mass of information that I've been feeling overwhelmed by (it's
my son; not a good start, I know!). But with school starting tomorrow, I do
hope to get something up on it soon, and hope that it could provide a good
"forestry" exercise (y'know, "thinning the trees"?) for others as well as
myself...)

Anyway, I guess this (cured cases and fitting them to mat.med. etc.) is just
what I need to focus on for a while, so I am really appreciating your
offerings!

Thanks again,
Shannon
on 9/1/03 12:05 PM, Joy Lucas at joy.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:

Steve wrote:
Behaviour'
insomnia;

Hi Steve

I'd certainly agree with all you say -- it's often the case that patients
come to us to address a rather superficial symptom standing on the shoulders
of a much deeper totality. What I was trying to get across was the idea that
there needs to be individualisation at *every* level, including our
methodology in approaching the case, and using the Kentian hierarchical
mental-state-is-primary approach by default can sometimes be
counterproductive.

A lot of where the patient stands in relation to their "stuff" is
communicated in the nature of their symptoms and how they present them. When
the presenting symptom just provides an excuse for the patient to start
offloading truckloads of issues, then it's clear that it isn't the real
focus for them. But when we're really having to push to get anything more
than the presenting complaint, then it's a different matter. It may be very
clear that the presenting complaint is rooted in a much deeper state which
we can glimpse behind the scenes, but to dive in at the deep end from the
word go may not be appropriate for the patient. Some cases really do seem to
be layered, and failing to respond to that apparent layering can lead to all
sorts of problems ... it's a bit like trying to remove their underwear while
they're still fully dressed.

From making that error myself many times, I've learned to pay particular
attention to the *clarity* of the symptoms arising from the underlying
state. If they're vague and insufficiently characteristic of any clear
remedy state, then I tend to focus on the level of manifestation where the
symptoms do have that clarity, trusting that other layers will reveal
themselves when appropriate. Interestingly, following this approach seems to
result in more clarity in patient response -- I have less cases where I'm
struggling to interpret what's going on in the wake of a remedy. Also the
cases progress, rather than ending up going round in circles.

Regards
Wendy

Hi Joy,

It was a jolt! What is transparent was so easily overlooked . Am I
and perhaps many who analysed your cases victims of fixed ideas?

One thing more. There was some talk in the group of how hahnemannian
homeopaths would have handled this case. But my best friend in such
cases where I start from location-sensation- modality- concommittant
is Boger- Boenninghaussen's rep. Though in your case I entirely used
Synthesis, I went for a confirmation in Boger's after you announced
your result. To my utter surprise, I did not find teucr in it. Not
even in single grade roman. Though, rep browsing knowledge can be a
tremendous advantage, knowing the mat medica is a sure guide in many.
I have heard that the calcutta homeopaths never used reps at all. But
what a breed of homeopaths flourished in Bengal? Your success is
surely a result of your mat med expertise than rep skill in this
case. Hats off !

I am still dazed and still think lach has an outside chance. The
womwn walked, talked , and hid like that lach. My wife lost a party
which I had promised should my remedy come thru.

Regards
Venkat
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Joy Lucas wrote:
(although
nasal
including
be bland
of being
simplicity is
extracting just
has 'horrible
took me
of the
link up
her almost
exercise, there
opposite of
this case
of real
all her
presenting state
(blandness) and
about it
instructions to
although
THYME!! The
for her,

Hi Wendy,

on 9/2/03 7:47 AM, Wendy Howard at wendy@rachan.worldonline.co.uk wrote:
I like this approach a lot. And maybe not coincidentally, I guess that's
just the approach (follow the clarify) that led to Joy's Teucr.
prescription. I'm guessing one reason this approach isn't always followed
as carefully as it ought, is simply that, to do it right, you have to either
"be lucky" (e.g. the patient's presenting complaint has clear-enough sxs) or
take complete enough case to you can *find* the area(s) of clarity.

Thanks for that!
Shannon

Oh, give your wife the party anyway, LOL!
Yep, it was a lovely eye-opener!
(And Lach would have not occurred to me, so I am going to file your remarks
on that away for reference! Speaking of "needs to do a lot more work on
learning her mat. med...")

Cheers,
Shannon
on 9/2/03 9:26 AM, J.venkatasubramanian at apexpreci2000@yahoo.co.in wrote:

Hi, Joy --

Going through my e-mail after a two weeks' absence and came upon your fascinating Teucrium case. When I studied that remedy, I came up with a cycle for it a la Paul Herscu, with whom I studied. (Paul sees each remedy of having a unique cycle comprising segments or phases that flow into each other. It's a useful approach to making sense of the myriad contradictory sxs in any remedy.)

My cycle for Teucrium is tentative and by no means set in stone, but here it is:

Oversensitiveness >> [leads to] restless cravings >> irritability >> dryness, swelling >> polyps, growths >> withdrawal, lassitude >> oversensitiveness.

According to this cycle, your "bland" patient came to you in her withdrawal phase. The change in her demeanor on follow-up suggests amelioration of her oversensitiveness. So the remedy did more than just take care of the polyps: it made her more comfortable with herself -- just as the correct Rx is supposed to do!

Peace,
Cinnabar

J Venkatasubramanian wrote:

From Boger-Bönninghausen
Nose; Polypi (21) : aur., aur-m., bell., cadm-s., CALC., con., graph.,
kali-bi., kali-n., merc., merc-aur., nit-ac., PHOS., Puls., Sang., sep.,
sil., staph., sulph., Teucr., thuj.

Regards
Wendy

Hi Joy,
You wrote:

The way she answered you "my life is nearly over now, I don't think about
that now. I don't complain
about anything"... "she would liked to have worked but her husband wasn't
keen on this and she
didn't really know what she would have done";- all these amply show her
depression .
Now since the patient was in front of you and you noticed something like a
spark in her eyes
or a smile on her lips or the general conduct of her that went contrary to
what she said in so
many words, all that only shows the inherent pitfals in doing a paper case.
I re read the case
in the light of your comments and I am still unable to say there is no
depression in her case.

Now coming to the sexual excitement, we( in India) don't expect it for a
lady of her age, 80.
May be this only shows how our different backgrounds of culture and
nationality would affect
our outlook in valuing the symptoms. In all 3rd world countries, unable to
make both ends meet
a majority of women even in the reproductive age have little time to think
about sexual excitement.
Because of affluence and not having any thing better to do , age may not
count in your part of
the globe.( age doesn't wither, nor custom stale...). In fact if I probed
that aspect in a lady of
that age in India then my patient would conclude that it is I who needs to
be treated first for
mental health.

Since I made this suggestion of Zinc-p, I feel a few words on how I arrived
at it may not be out of place.

It is a well taken case and there are ample hints to work on it.One way is
to look out for the areas of maximum stress she went thro' in her life.
"had to nurse her husband for a long time as he was very ill with skin
cancer
and kidney problems, it took up all her energy and time but she seemed
totally unemotional about this"
So I felt certain that one of the remedies figured out in the rubric
Generals,nursing the sick from, stands a fair chance in addressing your
case.
Of the remedies listed there in, Zinc got my attention because it covers the
concomitant in a unrelated area. "(Restlessness of feet)
So which salt of Zinc to be considered is the next question.
One's reaction to the electrical changes in the atmosphere is another
important aspect.
Since she says, doesn't like thunder or lightning "but I just put up with
it"
Phos as the other constituent suggests it self.
Then I checked up in WINE < and zinc-phos is very much there in 2nd degree
!
A reading in Kent showed the general nature of the remedy matches.

Now coming to teucr, if I felt it is constitutionally indicated in a
patient, I would
give it in 1M or higher , and I would give it low 6c if there are no other
symptoms
excepting the pathology to work upon. Then we can be sure whether the
remedy worked at the deepest level or only at the pathological level . This
is
because when we decide on the remedy we need to see what elements of the
case are left uncovered by it and there are critical elements in your case
that are clearly
not covered by teucr. So please be wary of the disappearance of pathology in
such
conditions and be on the look out for long term followup.

Thanks for your case.
V.T.Yekkirala
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Dear Cinnabar, thanks for this. I too like to make these chains, circles,
time lines, cycles, shapes etc for remedies and I think it helps our
learning of remedies. I especially like drawn maps of remedies - whereby you
can 'see' the whole remedy picture in a small diagram.

I think we all look forward to you drawing more cycles for us (please).

Best wishes, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 9/2/03 5:05 PM, DMH at igan@gis.net wrote:

Hi, Joy --

Going through my e-mail after a two weeks' absence and came upon your
fascinating Teucrium case. When I studied that remedy, I came up with a
cycle for it a la Paul Herscu, with whom I studied. (Paul sees each remedy
of having a unique cycle comprising segments or phases that flow into each
other. It's a useful approach to making sense of the myriad contradictory
sxs in any remedy.)

My cycle for Teucrium is tentative and by no means set in stone, but here it
is:

Oversensitiveness >> [leads to] restless cravings >> irritability >>
dryness, swelling >> polyps, growths >> withdrawal, lassitude >>
oversensitiveness.

According to this cycle, your "bland" patient came to you in her withdrawal
phase. The change in her demeanor on follow-up suggests amelioration of her
oversensitiveness. So the remedy did more than just take care of the
polyps: it made her more comfortable with herself -- just as the correct Rx
is supposed to do!

Peace,
Cinnabar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Venkat, sorry for the jolt! Do you need a remedy?:-))

Much as I love to browse through reps I try to encourage knowledge of
Materia Medica as much as possible - read them everyday, learn a remedy a
day if you are able, and then we can become better homeopaths and lessen our
dependence on the repertories, which as you say, have huge gaps in them
anyway.

Thanks again. I would like to comment on your 'unusual responsibility' case
in another post.

Regards, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 9/2/03 3:26 PM, J.venkatasubramanian at apexpreci2000@yahoo.co.in wrote:

Hi Joy,

It was a jolt! What is transparent was so easily overlooked . Am I
and perhaps many who analysed your cases victims of fixed ideas?

One thing more. There was some talk in the group of how hahnemannian
homeopaths would have handled this case. But my best friend in such
cases where I start from location-sensation- modality- concommittant
is Boger- Boenninghaussen's rep. Though in your case I entirely used
Synthesis, I went for a confirmation in Boger's after you announced
your result. To my utter surprise, I did not find teucr in it. Not
even in single grade roman. Though, rep browsing knowledge can be a
tremendous advantage, knowing the mat medica is a sure guide in many.
I have heard that the calcutta homeopaths never used reps at all. But
what a breed of homeopaths flourished in Bengal? Your success is
surely a result of your mat med expertise than rep skill in this
case. Hats off !

I am still dazed and still think lach has an outside chance. The
womwn walked, talked , and hid like that lach. My wife lost a party
which I had promised should my remedy come thru.

Regards
Venkat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]