Yes, they often say this.
At this point I nicely reassure them that I can put their mind to rest regarding this as the vast majority of people come to see homeopaths only because conventional medicine has either not been able to help them or the side effects have been so severe that treatment has been impossible.
That can also be followed up with the studies that show patient response and satisfaction of those referred into homeopathy by their conmed doctors (thanks Steve Scrutton for first exposing me to this abbreviation - love it) is so much higher BUT these studies should be used judiciously because the skeptics will then use them to confuse the issue and waltz you right back into their circular arguments - often it is better just to mention that the studies show this and if they want to know which ones, tell them to google them - that they are reallly very easy to find and may enjoy reading them (turn the tables and get them to do the runniing around they are trying to make you do).
I think we have to realise that our arguments should not really be directed at informing the skeptics as they really already know and just want to disparage - arguments and explanations should be subtly directed to those wondering onlookers. They are the ones who are secretly waiting to be informed and we can do that in the nicest possible way that reflects well on the profession.
Fran.
Media code for homeopaths
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Fran Sheffield
- Posts: 676
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:00 pm
Re: Media code for homeopaths
In addition ...
It also helps to suggest that you can understand their concern (reassure by mentioning what the studies show) but that you are a little concerned about their obsessiveness with homeopathy - why are they so agitated about it (nicely said of course with lots of benevolent reassurance)?
At a later point, can also acknowledge their anxiety that others may not be appropriately treated but encourage them to have confidence in most people's ability to recognise what is good for them and what isn't - that trying to control what people can and can't do is not the best way to go - that providing them with accurate info so they can make their own decision is a much better option - and encourage the skeptic to do this.
Remember, they really don't care about the above, they are just pretending, but at least making them jump through our hoops rather than the other way around shows them up for what they really are.
As for the 10:23 (?) demonstations, the best recourse would be to encourage people to join the skeptics in droves to demonstrate that they are right - that what we have been saying for centuries is true - it won't hurt you because being an energetic medicine (people can cope with that these days) there are no chemicals (toxic ingredients, etc) in it - one of the fantastic things about homeopathy - safe for everyone. Then help the skeptics (and onlookers) with the info they don't (ahem) know such as:
1. Remedy will only help if the person already suffers from the type of insomnia that that particular remedy treats
2. The sufferer has the right number of doses for their sensitivity
3. That's why homeopaths are such valuable creatures - they can help you find out they are so you don't have to resort to those sleeping tablets that do have dangerous side-effects.
It is very homeopathic (and much more effective) to side with the argument the antagonistic person is making and use that energy to gain momentum for what you are trying to achieve. Very allopathic to only oppose.
Fran.
--
Kind regards,
Fran Sheffield
Homeopathy Plus! (Tutorials - Remedies - Immunisation)
http://www.homeopathyplus.com.au
Do No Harm Initiative (Free Information on Homeopathic Immunisation)
http://www.d-n-h.org
Homeopathy for Autism (Guidelines for Treatment - Search for Practitioners)
http://www.homeopathy4autism.com
It also helps to suggest that you can understand their concern (reassure by mentioning what the studies show) but that you are a little concerned about their obsessiveness with homeopathy - why are they so agitated about it (nicely said of course with lots of benevolent reassurance)?
At a later point, can also acknowledge their anxiety that others may not be appropriately treated but encourage them to have confidence in most people's ability to recognise what is good for them and what isn't - that trying to control what people can and can't do is not the best way to go - that providing them with accurate info so they can make their own decision is a much better option - and encourage the skeptic to do this.
Remember, they really don't care about the above, they are just pretending, but at least making them jump through our hoops rather than the other way around shows them up for what they really are.
As for the 10:23 (?) demonstations, the best recourse would be to encourage people to join the skeptics in droves to demonstrate that they are right - that what we have been saying for centuries is true - it won't hurt you because being an energetic medicine (people can cope with that these days) there are no chemicals (toxic ingredients, etc) in it - one of the fantastic things about homeopathy - safe for everyone. Then help the skeptics (and onlookers) with the info they don't (ahem) know such as:
1. Remedy will only help if the person already suffers from the type of insomnia that that particular remedy treats
2. The sufferer has the right number of doses for their sensitivity
3. That's why homeopaths are such valuable creatures - they can help you find out they are so you don't have to resort to those sleeping tablets that do have dangerous side-effects.
It is very homeopathic (and much more effective) to side with the argument the antagonistic person is making and use that energy to gain momentum for what you are trying to achieve. Very allopathic to only oppose.
Fran.
--
Kind regards,
Fran Sheffield
Homeopathy Plus! (Tutorials - Remedies - Immunisation)
http://www.homeopathyplus.com.au
Do No Harm Initiative (Free Information on Homeopathic Immunisation)
http://www.d-n-h.org
Homeopathy for Autism (Guidelines for Treatment - Search for Practitioners)
http://www.homeopathy4autism.com
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Fran Sheffield
- Posts: 676
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:00 pm
Re: Media code for homeopaths
Hi Ruby,
And these words of yours are the perfect example of turning their own arguments back on them.
Often they don't realise (or at least some of them) that the very things they accuse homeopaths of are much more true of them.
By nicely pointing out their own weaknesses in this area (ie., blind faith, religion, lack of evidence, flawed studies, etc) some will be shocked and have that cognitive dissonance Tanya talks about while others can be effectively silenced or have their true malice shown.
________________________________
--
Kind regards,
Fran Sheffield
Homeopathy Plus! (Tutorials - Remedies - Immunisation)
http://www.homeopathyplus.com.au
Do No Harm Initiative (Free Information on Homeopathic Immunisation)
http://www.d-n-h.org
Homeopathy for Autism (Guidelines for Treatment - Search for Practitioners)
http://www.homeopathy4autism.com
And these words of yours are the perfect example of turning their own arguments back on them.
Often they don't realise (or at least some of them) that the very things they accuse homeopaths of are much more true of them.
By nicely pointing out their own weaknesses in this area (ie., blind faith, religion, lack of evidence, flawed studies, etc) some will be shocked and have that cognitive dissonance Tanya talks about while others can be effectively silenced or have their true malice shown.
________________________________
--
Kind regards,
Fran Sheffield
Homeopathy Plus! (Tutorials - Remedies - Immunisation)
http://www.homeopathyplus.com.au
Do No Harm Initiative (Free Information on Homeopathic Immunisation)
http://www.d-n-h.org
Homeopathy for Autism (Guidelines for Treatment - Search for Practitioners)
http://www.homeopathy4autism.com
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Jennifer Ruby
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Media code for homeopaths
On 2/5/2011 11:27 AM, Shannon Nelson wrote:
In the US, I wonder how many of us are seeing that after purchasing insurance, the physicians are reporting back that the procedure that is required and requested, is not available to the patient... (Not cost effective, or not worth the monetary expense because of age, or health condition... etc.) It won't be long till care won't be available to "Baby Boomers" or the elderly, not to mention the handicapped... which because of vaccine damage is on the rise.
Homeopathy is Still the best, most effective and cost efficient means of HEALTH, not just Health Care.
--
Health, Hope, Joy & Healing :
May you Prosper, even as your Soul Prospers 3John 2
Jennifer Ruby
Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.
http://www.rubysemporium.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SymphonicHealth
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Therapeutic-Laser_Therapy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Reversingautism
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOTA_LightWorks/
http://www.lazrpulsr.com
______________________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤
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In the US, I wonder how many of us are seeing that after purchasing insurance, the physicians are reporting back that the procedure that is required and requested, is not available to the patient... (Not cost effective, or not worth the monetary expense because of age, or health condition... etc.) It won't be long till care won't be available to "Baby Boomers" or the elderly, not to mention the handicapped... which because of vaccine damage is on the rise.
Homeopathy is Still the best, most effective and cost efficient means of HEALTH, not just Health Care.
--
Health, Hope, Joy & Healing :
May you Prosper, even as your Soul Prospers 3John 2
Jennifer Ruby
Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.
http://www.rubysemporium.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SymphonicHealth
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Therapeutic-Laser_Therapy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Reversingautism
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOTA_LightWorks/
http://www.lazrpulsr.com
______________________________________________
«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Media code for homeopaths
If therapies are ineffective, patients will look for something else, as demonstrated abundantly by the people coming to us after conventional treatment failed.
The danger lies with the inability or the refusal to recognise where the problems are, how to treat it best, what to do to find out what is happening and get to the bottom of the issue and what are the limitations: all that is the practitioner's responsibility.
Two days ago, a new patient came in: she had a thyroidectomy for Grave's disease followed by radioactive iodine when the disease recurred; then put on thyroxin; she has a mix of symptoms of hypo and hyperthyroidism, there is clearly an overdose of thyroxin OR there could be the very rare occurrence of ectopic thyroid tissue that, somehow, has not been destroyed by the radioactive iodine. Reaction and action of the GP: keep taking the thyroxin and I will give you antidepressants............that is medicine...........by a practitioner who is supposed to know what he is doing.
And the same type of situation happens in the natural medicine world, where remedies and supplements are thrown at the patients without logic and when it does not "work" the patient is referred back to the GP......
And the loser is ....the patient............and as secondary victims, us.......
My suggestion, before or at least at the same time than counter-attacking, is to clear our own backyard and become a lot more knowledgeable.....................
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
The danger lies with the inability or the refusal to recognise where the problems are, how to treat it best, what to do to find out what is happening and get to the bottom of the issue and what are the limitations: all that is the practitioner's responsibility.
Two days ago, a new patient came in: she had a thyroidectomy for Grave's disease followed by radioactive iodine when the disease recurred; then put on thyroxin; she has a mix of symptoms of hypo and hyperthyroidism, there is clearly an overdose of thyroxin OR there could be the very rare occurrence of ectopic thyroid tissue that, somehow, has not been destroyed by the radioactive iodine. Reaction and action of the GP: keep taking the thyroxin and I will give you antidepressants............that is medicine...........by a practitioner who is supposed to know what he is doing.
And the same type of situation happens in the natural medicine world, where remedies and supplements are thrown at the patients without logic and when it does not "work" the patient is referred back to the GP......
And the loser is ....the patient............and as secondary victims, us.......
My suggestion, before or at least at the same time than counter-attacking, is to clear our own backyard and become a lot more knowledgeable.....................
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
-
Tanya Marquette
- Posts: 5602
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2001 11:00 pm
Re: Media code for homeopaths
It is not as simple as you describe. Many people, at least in the US, are so happy to get 'free' health care.
The fact that is isn't working is a frustration but not to the degree of rejecting it. Many people add up the free
tests and other procedures and giggle with glee at how much they get for nothing. Crazy thinking, but nonetheless,
very common.
tanya
If therapies are ineffective, patients will look for something else, as demonstrated abundantly by the people coming to us after conventional treatment failed.
The danger lies with the inability or the refusal to recognise where the problems are, how to treat it best, what to do to find out what is happening and get to the bottom of the issue and what are the limitations: all that is the practitioner's responsibility.
Two days ago, a new patient came in: she had a thyroidectomy for Grave's disease followed by radioactive iodine when the disease recurred; then put on thyroxin; she has a mix of symptoms of hypo and hyperthyroidism, there is clearly an overdose of thyroxin OR there could be the very rare occurrence of ectopic thyroid tissue that, somehow, has not been destroyed by the radioactive iodine. Reaction and action of the GP: keep taking the thyroxin and I will give you antidepressants............that is medicine...........by a practitioner who is supposed to know what he is doing.
And the same type of situation happens in the natural medicine world, where remedies and supplements are thrown at the patients without logic and when it does not "work" the patient is referred back to the GP......
And the loser is ....the patient............and as secondary victims, us.......
My suggestion, before or at least at the same time than counter-attacking, is to clear our own backyard and become a lot more knowledgeable.....................
Joe.
??? ???
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
The fact that is isn't working is a frustration but not to the degree of rejecting it. Many people add up the free
tests and other procedures and giggle with glee at how much they get for nothing. Crazy thinking, but nonetheless,
very common.
tanya
If therapies are ineffective, patients will look for something else, as demonstrated abundantly by the people coming to us after conventional treatment failed.
The danger lies with the inability or the refusal to recognise where the problems are, how to treat it best, what to do to find out what is happening and get to the bottom of the issue and what are the limitations: all that is the practitioner's responsibility.
Two days ago, a new patient came in: she had a thyroidectomy for Grave's disease followed by radioactive iodine when the disease recurred; then put on thyroxin; she has a mix of symptoms of hypo and hyperthyroidism, there is clearly an overdose of thyroxin OR there could be the very rare occurrence of ectopic thyroid tissue that, somehow, has not been destroyed by the radioactive iodine. Reaction and action of the GP: keep taking the thyroxin and I will give you antidepressants............that is medicine...........by a practitioner who is supposed to know what he is doing.
And the same type of situation happens in the natural medicine world, where remedies and supplements are thrown at the patients without logic and when it does not "work" the patient is referred back to the GP......
And the loser is ....the patient............and as secondary victims, us.......
My suggestion, before or at least at the same time than counter-attacking, is to clear our own backyard and become a lot more knowledgeable.....................
Joe.
??? ???
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
-
Dr. Joe Rozencwajg, NMD
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Media code for homeopaths
That is where I turn out becoming sarcastic, cruel, unapologetically not PC: they get what they want and they get what they deserve.
Nevertheless, that does not remove my duty of care, meaning that I must strive to be as good as possible (I did write as best as possible ) and keep up with progress.
If they do not want it for whatever reason, their choice, their life.
And yes, that means very often having to "impose" a treatment, albeit with explanations.....best example is the caveman's diet.......lots of patients try to "negotiate"...not even a bit of this or of that, I love it so much, etc,....... I am very blunt and tell them that if they do not follow it as described, they just wasted a few hours and money, with the typical example of putting diesel in a petrol car. Works.
They still have a choice.
But that is not my problem.
What I need to do is to explain correctly why it should be done the way I "impose" it; takes a lot of time, but it is worth it. It does not work though if you use the argument "that is what we in the natural medicine community claim is best".
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
Nevertheless, that does not remove my duty of care, meaning that I must strive to be as good as possible (I did write as best as possible ) and keep up with progress.
If they do not want it for whatever reason, their choice, their life.
And yes, that means very often having to "impose" a treatment, albeit with explanations.....best example is the caveman's diet.......lots of patients try to "negotiate"...not even a bit of this or of that, I love it so much, etc,....... I am very blunt and tell them that if they do not follow it as described, they just wasted a few hours and money, with the typical example of putting diesel in a petrol car. Works.
They still have a choice.
But that is not my problem.
What I need to do is to explain correctly why it should be done the way I "impose" it; takes a lot of time, but it is worth it. It does not work though if you use the argument "that is what we in the natural medicine community claim is best".
Joe.
Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
"The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind"
Visit my new website www.naturamedica.webs.com
-
John Harvey
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Re: Media code for homeopaths
Thanks, Fran. I too liked your suggestion here, but of course Shannon's right: the true believers' major argument against the availability of homoeopathy is that somebody might choose it and thereby omit "real" treatment.
You've also suggested some nice responses here to emotion-based objections to discovery and publication of the facts, including the innocuous question of what harm would arise from the relevant research.
It's an interesting notion, isn't it, the one that it is possible for medicine based on a pharmaceutical industry profiting to an obscene degree from maintaining steady states of illness and buying market monopolies could find the independence to base its practice instead on evidence. I wonder whether even our obsessive pseudoskeptical friends could possibly embrace it if it didn't constitute such an obvious threat to their livelihoods.
Cheers --
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Where it is doing the right thing, a great power should be robust against embarrassment."
—Simon Jenkins, "U.S. embassy cables: The job of the media is not to protect the powerful from embarrassment", The Guardian 28 Nov 2010, .
You've also suggested some nice responses here to emotion-based objections to discovery and publication of the facts, including the innocuous question of what harm would arise from the relevant research.
It's an interesting notion, isn't it, the one that it is possible for medicine based on a pharmaceutical industry profiting to an obscene degree from maintaining steady states of illness and buying market monopolies could find the independence to base its practice instead on evidence. I wonder whether even our obsessive pseudoskeptical friends could possibly embrace it if it didn't constitute such an obvious threat to their livelihoods.
Cheers --
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Where it is doing the right thing, a great power should be robust against embarrassment."
—Simon Jenkins, "U.S. embassy cables: The job of the media is not to protect the powerful from embarrassment", The Guardian 28 Nov 2010, .
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John Harvey
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Re: Media code for homeopaths
I very much enjoyed this pseudohomoeopathic prescription!
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Where it is doing the right thing, a great power should be robust against embarrassment."
—Simon Jenkins, "U.S. embassy cables: The job of the media is not to protect the powerful from embarrassment", The Guardian 28 Nov 2010, >.
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Where it is doing the right thing, a great power should be robust against embarrassment."
—Simon Jenkins, "U.S. embassy cables: The job of the media is not to protect the powerful from embarrassment", The Guardian 28 Nov 2010, >.
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Shannon Nelson
- Posts: 8848
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm
Re: Media code for homeopaths
I'm thinking that the threat to livelihoods may in most cases be less compelling than (perceived) threats to their egos, to "being right", feeling superior, feeling secure (e.g. that the "conventionals" have got it handled), things like that. There are such major and fundamental differences in worldview that go along with holistic approach to health (and life), vs. the "slash-and-burn", "find a symptom and stomp it", "shoot-the-messenger", "war on [insert disease of your choice]" approaches of today's mainstream medicine. Just thinking...
Shannon
Shannon