Minutus

By the way - forgot to add that some of those links don't work. Ian Sinclair - nothing. Stefan Lanka - very strange result!
liz

But for practical purposes, does this matter?

What we do know is that the bug is there by association - whether as a contributing factor or something helpful.

I am not convinced that the bug is just there as something benign or helpful.

I only have to think of a family member who was very sick and going into sepsis with a worsening abscess who then chose the conventional treatment of antibiotics. The same antibiotic that killed the bacteria in the petri dish also stopped the sweating, fevers, inflammation and discharge. There are many more examples of this in relation to antibiotics where treatment targeted at the pathogen resolved the surface problem. Of course, we know the person has not really been cured but the relationship between pathogen and symptoms cannot be denied - and that relationship was not a helpful one.

As another example that you may be familiar with with your nursing background - but maybe not with your paed focus. On numerous occasions I have seen bed sores fail to progress or worsen until antibiotics have been prescribed for the pathogen present in the sore (and this without the cardinal symptoms of infection such as fever). As soon as the pathogen has been removed by the appropriate antibiotic, the wound or bedsore starts to heal. These examples would certainly indicate to me that the bacteria is not just there as a helpful entity as is often suggested. Rather, it suggests that harm is taking place in association with it being there.

And of course, we can only observe what is happening on the physical - who knows what the interaction is on the dynamic plane.
--
Kind regards,

Fran Sheffield
Homeopathy Plus! (Tutorials - Remedies - Immunisation)
http://www.homeopathyplus.com.au
Do No Harm Initiative (Free Information on Homeopathic Immunisation)
http://www.d-n-h.org
Homeopathy for Autism (Guidelines for Treatment - Search for Practitioners)
http://www.homeopathy4autism.com

Dear Sheri and Joy
If the 'bug' is the result, then destroying the bugs should not do anything to the health of the host.
However, we see it clearly that with some diseases which are said to be caused by some bacteria, once you kill of the bacteria by the use of an appropriate antibiotic, then as the bug numbers come down the host improves.
This is repeatedly observable.
Alternatively, introduce the bug into a health host, they exhibit a similar set of symptoms associated with that micro organism. Hence the old measles parties some of us attended as kids.
Also why is that when some one gets measles for example, we see the measles micro organism in their body samples, and every time it is the same thing. Why not some other micro organism.
Hence in my humble opinion the micro organism is not a result. They can cause a set of well classified set of symptoms EVERY TIME.
Just to sum up where I stand:

Yes - we have the fundamental causes - your miasmatic susceptibilities if you like - that is why some one on a bus will catch or not catch flu when someone with flu sneezes on it.
Yes - we need a causation - this could be contact with some morbific agent (i.e. some agency like a micro organism), or it could be shock or grief etc.
For Chronics, we need a maintaining cause too to keep the symptoms going - eg the old damp cellar and lung problems.

(It has to be a damp cellar so that the fungi can grown in it and affect the lung function - dry cellar, no problems!)
Rgds

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sheri Nakken
Sent: 23 November 2010 20:50
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: Aph 81 - Organon 6
and who has proven the 'bug' causes anything now or then?
What if the 'bug' is the result?

I will send something I wrote up 4 years ago
Sheri

At 08:21 AM 11/24/2010, you wrote:
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
http://homeopathycures.wordpress.com/ & http://vaccinationdangers.wordpress.com/
ONLINE/Email classes in Homeopathy; Vaccine Dangers; Childhood Diseases
Next classes start October 2010

________________________________

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3274 - Release Date: 11/23/10

Bugs are bugs, they are just present.
If anyone goes to the trouble of having lab tests when they get measles then of course the so called measles bug will be identified but who is to say it wasn't there all the time; who cares whether it is identifiable or not; how does it change anything; these so called bugs do not cause the disease.

You do not 'catch' anything.

You think just like an allopath and this encourages the public's needs for antibiotics.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.streetcollege.co.uk

Wrong way round - you are blaming the bug and you also think like the allopath and as always not as Hahnemann taught us

sx come last, susceptibility comes before sx, the template is what releases the susceptibility, i.e. causation, the trigger that releases the susceptibility and this is not the bug

I ask you again, how do you equate causation when you take a case

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.streetcollege.co.uk

I don't have time to get it out but doesn't Hahnemann talk about this in Chronic Diseases?

Without looking my memory is very patchy but wasn't there something about people being exposed to a disease (?smallpox) on a ship and his comments about duration and intensity of exposure being important factors?

I will have to go and look - just as soon as there is time.
--
Kind regards,

Fran Sheffield
Homeopathy Plus! (Tutorials - Remedies - Immunisation)
http://www.homeopathyplus.com.au
Do No Harm Initiative (Free Information on Homeopathic Immunisation)
http://www.d-n-h.org
Homeopathy for Autism (Guidelines for Treatment - Search for Practitioners)
http://www.homeopathy4autism.com

Oh no, not this one again!

Joy, you didn't answer Soroush. He noted: "
If the 'bug' is the result, then destroying the bugs should not do anything to the health of the host.
However, we see it clearly that with some diseases which are said to be caused by some bacteria, once you kill of the bacteria by the use of an appropriate antibiotic, then as the bug numbers come down the host improves."

How do you explain this repeated observation?

And his other points--"measles parties" etc.; the famous pump handle of the cholera epidemic...
More examples than one could shake a Bible at.

This is sooooooooo "not homeopathy"... But if you're going to be in the discussion, then you should answer the objections raised.

Shannon

At 11:53 AM 11/24/2010, you wrote:
But what are you using to destroy the bug
And what additional toxins are being added
And by stopping the bug helping what are you doing

The idea is to support the terrain so the bug can do its job and its
toxic by products are not affecting us
But do they truly inprove for the long run
Just like the palliative remedy - doesn't cure
Just like the suppressive remedy - doesn't cure
but they sure feel better
But what is really being passed around? Is it a virus (when there is
little proof of viruses causing anything)
But we see viruses and bacteria in healthy people too that are not ill
But do the certain symptoms call for a certain bacteria to appear?
Still not convinced that it is a virus or bacteria that is being
passed on or that causes anything
Still not convinced
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
http://homeopathycures.wordpress.com/ &
http://vaccinationdangers.wordpress.com/
ONLINE/Email classes in Homeopathy; Vaccine Dangers; Childhood Diseases
Next classes start October 2010

On Tuesday, November 23, 2010, at 03:40 AM, Joy Lucas wrote:

And susceptibility would be a non-issue unless the microbes are
potential pathogens.

Oh not you again! Are you his agent as well now?

I never alluded to the bug being the result. I refer to symptoms being the result. And yes some antibiotics do damage the bugs presence (as well as the host) but what is the value in that, what part does that play in this discussion. Antibiotics are nasty crude chemicals and we know you favour them.

As for measles parties - then I refer you back to § 11. What is it in that § you do not understand for this discussion? Go and read it again.

For any epidemic to proliferate, or rather to take hold you need the mitigating circumstances first and these can be almost anything. Small local communities where multiple cases of measles or chicken pox are found, could for example, have been subjected to a common unusual or over riding cause such as a harsh winter, or exceptionally damp etc etc lots and lots of possibilities, THEN the susceptibility is awakened and THEN the disease presents itself.

You are some bossy women. Quite funny.

Joy
http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://www.streetcollege.co.uk