Minutus

Just curious: don’t we say that milk is bad for cats, and yet barn cats thrived on it (straight from the cow) for centuries—maybe millennia, didn’t they? As did my Tennessee relatives up until the 60s, I believe. Teresa (Eddystone)
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From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert & Shannon Nelson
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:13 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Cat Food (OT)
[...]
...adding salmon and sardines...canned...hmmmm, have you ever seen a cat eating fish from a creek??? I haven't, so why would they eat ocean fish?
And yet fish *does* seem to be good for cats. I wonder if perhaps it helps to re-balance the omega 3s, which are generally higher in wild foods and lower in the farmed foods that make up most domestic cats' diets today? (Even the raw-fed ones.)

Thinking in terms of what's "natural" for animals to eat, that is a
funny one! Our chickens also blossom on (raw) milk--while they were
lucky enough to be getting it. No way can I consider *that* natural
for a bird! Yet they did do really well on it, especially a couple
that had been rather sickly. Funny!! (And yummmm... ) (They
also gobble yogurt, and for that matter any ol' milk products eagerly,
but I haven't compared whether they'd do just as well on grocery store
milk.)
Shannon

Um, so *is* it bad for cats??
I wonder whether the "straight from the cow" type is less bad, or ?

I think it is the homogenization and pasteurization of milk that make it bad for cats—and people. Teresa (Northern VA)
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From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert & Shannon Nelson
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 3:01 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Cat Food (OT)
Um, so *is* it bad for cats??
I wonder whether the "straight from the cow" type is less bad, or ?
Just curious: don’t we say that milk is bad for cats, and yet barn cats thrived on it (straight from the cow) for centuries—maybe millennia, didn’t they? As did my Tennessee relatives up until the 60s, I believe. Teresa (Eddystone)
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert & Shannon Nelson
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:13 PM
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Cat Food (OT)
[...]
...adding salmon and sardines...canned...hmmmm, have you ever seen a cat eating fish from a creek??? I haven't, so why would they eat ocean fish?
And yet fish *does* seem to be good for cats. I wonder if perhaps it helps to re-balance the omega 3s, which are generally higher in wild foods and lower in the farmed foods that make up most domestic cats' diets today? (Even the raw-fed ones.)

Hi - I think the conversation started out as "the *best* available
commercial food". In my opinion, that would COMPLETELY leave out ANY
AND ALL dry foods. A cat's teeth are not equipped to eat dry foods,
nor is it healthy to them for a variety of reasons which would be
another topic all together.

As far as Propac goes, does anyone here work for them??? I would
NEVER feed my cats this food day-in and day-out. The very first item
on the list of ingredients is CHICKEN MEAL... and 2nd ingredient is
Rice Flour, 3rd is Ground Yellow Corn -- where is the high quality
protein source in this food??? When you see the words "___ MEAL", it
means "whole carcasses or parts of carcasses of condemned meat that
have been cooked down, had the fat skimmed off, and then dried to form
a meal. But it's not just sick and dying cows and pigs--it's grease
and restaurant and supermarket waste, road kill, dead zoo animals, and
even euthanized cats and dogs. It all gets cooked together and shipped
off to pet food companies". This is according to the standards. This
is not something I want to feed my babies.

There may be some fruits and veggies in the more premium brand foods,
such as: Wellness, Nature's Variety, etc. -- but these ingredients are
further down on the list than being 1st and 2nd ingredient. The
percentage of these ingredients in the food is very small. In the
wild when a cat eats a rodent, rabbit, bird, etc. -- the cat is also
receiving whatever that animal has eaten. So, essentially, a cat in
the wild IS eating some fruits and veggies in consuming its prey (in
small amounts, of course).

And let's talk about fish... It is unhealthy for a human to eat fish
everyday -- let alone not having the benefit of knowing what kind of
fish. Propac has fish meal -- what kind of fish is it? Certain fish
are highly toxic and are not even recommended that humans eat more
than once a week. Why would I want my animal to eat it every day???

Let's just face the facts that there is not a "best" when it comes to
commercial pet foods. It is like a human going and eating processed
foods every day. It is not the best thing for humans to eat and it is
not the best for animals to eat. Unless you make it yourself -- you
have no idea what is in it. Now, you can say that there are "better"
commercial pet foods; however (in my opinion), Propac would not be one
to make that list, nor would any foods that are purchased at Wal-Mart
or the local supermarket. There are evils in all commercial pet foods
and none of them should be constantly fed on a continual basis. In my
opinion, the only way to feed what is best is to make it yourself --
unfortunately.

Take care,
Meo

Well I wouldn't know for my cats - as I would never think to feed
them anything for which I am not well aware of the ingredients used,
and how appropriate they are for cats.
That just seems common sense to me.
What country are you in?
ALL ingredients are listed by law in USA, in the Ingredients list,
which may not be missing or replaced by anything else, and which has
to be in order by volume.
Going to a processing plant does not tell you what's in a food or
whether it is good for cats.
So I do a lot MORE than that before recommending a food.
No.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Marilyn - I am sorry but I have other things to do as well and do not
feel like spending a lot of time on something so obvious as a book on
plants for cats when cats do not digest plants at all.
So I'll comment the areas that I feel I have time for today, and
trust that you will research the rest if you wish.
Cats eat grass when their (essential) gut bacteria are out of kilter.
They do it to obtain the folic acid in the grass - and then either
vomit it out or pass the grass through undigested.
Yes. Also by swimming in the sea to go fishing.
In fact the flip action that cats use with toys is actually the
action they have by instinct for catching fish.
It is customary for cats to flip the fish out of the water, while
still on the bank though some cats will swim to fish.
The breed I have and love is Norwegian Forest Cats and they are well
known for going fishing in the sea - or a farm dam in the case of my
own. Turkish Vans and some other cats also are swim-fishers. Much
depends on the area where they originated and how they adapted to
that environment.
No.
I use proper research - it is not I who uses assumptions:-)
I recommend canned salmon and sardines from human-intended food. It
has no added taurine.
I would not touch canned food 'for cats' as it has horrid additives
that are bad for cats.
According to some sort of invented research in your imagination? Or
do you have something real to controvert what I know from proper
sources?
IF you bother to read the research instead of making unsubstantiated
pronoucements you will see how much benefit you and your cats can
get from high dose (natural not synthetic) Vit E and that there is no
way to reach anywhere near a toxic level (which by the way has never
been able to be reached in cats) using the kind of quantities I
recommend.
Except there are not four brands available that are acceptable much
less terrific:-)
I wish there were:-)

So if you feed many in the current commercial scene, you are feeding
toxic and damaging food to your cat just "for variety".

Not my scene.
I supply variety with the extras I provide and recommend to clients -
varied extras - in addition to the current one best commercial food.
If/when the food manufacturers ever get their act together enough to
produce something appropriate for felines, I'll add that in.
Not before.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

What are you trying to get at here?
I do not see how the various English uses of the word neck, have
anything at all to do with whether I have a bias reading feline
research?
Please explain more what you mean.

Or perhaps you do not know that the "3" in your dictionary lookup -
is just to denote a third way the word is used.
German is also confusing - same word for lock or castle for example -
does not mean castles or locks are biased.
????
There's a difference between an opinion and a finding in research.
If the research finds for example that 56% protein is better than
18% protein in a set of given circumstances - that is simply a
research fact.
it has no bias and I CAN HAVE NO OPINION ABOUT IT.
Research facts and opinion are separate things.

It might be my opinion that the research should have used fat not
protein or 47 percent not 56, but that's SEPARATE from the researched
fact - which has no bias.

I have no bias about the research that finds research facts - for
example the researched fact that it damages the thymus.
The separate fact that I see this in my practice on a daily basis -
is also a research facgt and not an opinion. BUT - my (separate)
*opinion* on it will be stronger due to the duplicate research facts
I know of. - but does not change the original research fact - nor
the practical fact I find about it. Those are not biased. they are
just facts.

Mix it in.
Do not go to two spoons until he chooses to eat it:-)

Yes it is ridiculous - I'm sorry.
Also - 7 Kg will degrade from exposure to oxygen in the air long
before you use it.
(If some rat does not find it first in your cellar)

A funny story:
I used to get my ProPac kitten from a local "Feed Store" who stocked
it just for me.
After a while I was returning bags as it was obvious some rodent had
been getting fat on it.
At first they replaced them but then said they no longer would carry
it for me as it was the only food the rodents went for.
So I get it direct now and trust my cats to protect any unopened bags:-)
Wonder what junk the other brands contained that was not even good
enough for rodents?
Good luck, I know this is not easy.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Barn cats only used it when they had nothing better - and no doubt
were dining al fresco on mus musculus when the farmer's back was
turned. Cats normally lose their lactose tolerance at weaning, but it
can be artificially prolonged (to the cat's detriment) by continuing
to supply a cat with milk. It is to the detriment of the cat as the
nutrient ratios in cow's milk are wrong for cats.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

On Aug 8, 2008, at 12:21 PM, stagebabe2003 wrote:
?? All in *chicken* meal??
:-/