Minutus

Hi Luise-
I never said that Hahnemann meant bacteria or viruses when he talked
about morbific agents. In fact I do not care if Hahnemann knew about
bacteria or not... that is besides the point... we are trying to posit
homeopathy in a context where allopathy is not the same beast that
Hahnemann dealt with. It has become worse in some ways and it has
become better in some ways. Having good scientific research and
following peer-reviewed protocols and double blinds etc. has improved
its approach and also made it much more reliable in terms of being
able to prove what is stated.

In some ways Homeopathy has retrograded even further than what our
founding fathers practised.

I am not sure I agree with the notion that the bacteria are just
dynamic in nature... still who knows... since vital force can be
influenced by a hit on the head ( what is just dynamic about this?)or
by burns to the body - I would rather say that all of these are
"influences" on the vital force - physical, chemical, ephemereal or
whatever...
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Luise Kunkle wrote:
that can
incline it
morbid
to the
shock or
Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no
representations regarding the individual suitability of the
information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation
offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any
purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the
recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual
members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special,
punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to
receive a single daily digest.

what hasn't changed except to get worse is the politics of
medicine/science/research.
this is an age old condition which humankind doesnt seem to learn and grow
from.
the tactics have gotten more and more manipulative and color research to
such a
degree that it is hard to not be cynical about so much of what gets
presented as
'scientific fact.' politics and economics hide behind white coats and
so-called
peer-review and double blind gobbledygook. just look at the entire history
of
vaccines, its science, economics and public manipulation with totalitarian
mandates
that all participate or suffer jail!

tanya
and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations
regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any
document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this
website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out
of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site
or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever
caused.
your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a
single daily digest.

Hi Hahnemannian,

Just a moment:-)
I have never said anything different.

Of course they are not just dynamic in nature! But they could carry
whith them "dynamic force". Whether they do or not is not really
important. It could be a useful "model" (in German this is called
"thought-model, which really expresses it better)

still who knows... since vital force can be

The force that is necessary to make it harmful? Anyway, I also did not
say that damage can *only* be done by dynamic influence. When the
scabies mite attacks a person, the burrowing into the skin does damage
- but there is also something else. An ultra-thin neutral substance
being implanted would not do the same thing, probably.

or

Heat is a dynamic force.

I would rather say that all of these are
A different "model". As far as models are concerned one can pick one
that is appropriate at a given time or for a given purpose. There have
been many different models of molecules, of atoms - one emplys the
model that is most useful for a given problem. Same with e. g. light -
for some purposes one uses the model of wave, for some that of particle.

Regards

Luise

--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

H2002 wrote:
I am not sure I agree with the notion that the bacteria are just

Luise wrote:
Of course they are not just dynamic in nature! But they could carry
whith them "dynamic force". Whether they do or not is not really
important. It could be a useful "model" (in German this is called
"thought-model, which really expresses it better)

((( Any animated living entity must have life force to operate its
material components. And this is *very* important, especially to our
theory of chronic diseases. What is a miasm? My working hypothesis is
that it is a microbe without a physical body. This has yet to be proven
definitively. But for example,

--in Cancer, it is likely that only a life force entity could commandeer
the nucleus of a specialized host cell without supplanting its life force
- and yield a product (tumor) which would appear to be an amalgam of those
those life forces (decomposer microbe = high consumption, high
reproduction)= perversion of scale. Of course, a life force could be
causing gene expression without the host life force any longer being
present. But the host cell seems to survive the overtaking intact. Think
it likely that the host vital force is still also present.
It has been written that a cancer cell has negative polarity (minus
nucleus)- indicating perhaps that the cancer influence is an overlay. If
a cancer cell can recover and become the correct polarity once again then
it would show that, if cancer is a dynamic phenomenon, the cancer microbe
vital force and the host cell vital force were in operation
simultaneously to express tumors.

--Only a life force entity can be transmitted by gametes and result in
phenomena in the offspring which has a signature of a disease suffered by
the parent but without any sign of the physical microbe. It is possible
that it is something intracellular that is in the germ cell (sperm and
egg). But more likely to be "dynamic" because:

--Only a life force entity can be removed by destructive pattern resonance
from presence of another quasi life-force-like energy (homeopathic
remedy)that mimics its pattern in the host vital force. (Destructive
resonance being my assumption of the most likely mechanism of action of
remedies).
Rife unitary electromagnetic frequencies destroy microbes more directly by
destructive resonance. With a remedy if destructive resonance is also in
operation we have a more complex and subtle resonance phenomenon, not
probably electromagnetic but similar (electromagnetic is a special case of
the ether (e.g permanent magnets fix the ether into a magnetic field).
Life force=life ether. Thus it is understandable that electromagnetic can
influence ether. The clumped water aggregates store the imprint of the
biochemistry of the crude substance and this type of energy (which binds
the aggregates) must also have resonant impact on the life ether. Its
pattern signature is similar to that of the pattern of the sum of
miasmatic distortions of host function, thus similar to the pattern of the
nonphysical microbial vital forces themselves.

If the vital forces of microbes survive antibiotics and other biocides and
remain circulating in the chi of the host, it might explain why biocides
while stopping the acute disease, are "suppressive" in effect as shown by
later eruption of the same phenomena, perhaps worse and more intractable
(e.g. middle ear infections).
The idea that nonphysical microbes = miasms would explain both the source
of endogenous disease and acute susceptibility.

==========
Endogenous
As Hahnemann had empirically concluded in the The Chronic Diseases,
foreign vital bodies trapped within the human vital energy flows are the
proximate cause of disease. These miasms are the remnants of incompletely
resolved infectious diseases in the present life, the parents, or the
lineage. Each miasm confers a certain characterisable pattern to the
morphology, personality, and health of succeeding generations. In
homeopathy we know the signatures of only some of the major miasms.

The vital animating bodies of decomposer pathogens (protozoans, bacteria,
viruses, fungi) can possibly remain in the human host even after the death
of the physical body of these microbes. These life force programs
mismatched to any human cell, known as miasms from miasma, or "noxious
vapor"; live within the software (vital forces) and cling to the hardware
(cells) of the host human. Miasms are transmitted to offspring as part of
the vital energy of gametes; and otherwise by close contacts between
hosts.

Microbial vital bodies would create chronic endogenous disease by clinging
to individual host cells and stressing them inductively. The vital pattern
of a simple decomposer microbe is mismatched to the pattern of the
specialised human cell. This first creates functional derangement; and
later defects in cellular structure or products (organic pathology).

The miasm is the source of disease and thus ultimately what is to be
eliminated. There are likely as many miasms as there are infectious
diseases. Miasms form combinations which create what we know of as both
unnamed (patient-specific) and named (classified) diseases.

Infections with foreign vital force are seeds of disease. They weaken
cellular subsystems and create susceptibility to psychosomatic injury
which causes functional disorder and eventually material pathology of
cells. Miasms are passed down interminably unless destroyed by the applied
force of resonant similarity. The latter intervention is the match by the
artificial version of the nonphysical disease, which we know of as the
correctly applied homeopathic remedy. The target of this remedy is chosen
by the practitioner with interpretive methods that are a mix of art and
science. Hence Hahnemann referred to homeopathic medicine as “the healing
art”.

Thus the human automatic vital force is comprised of a mix of human vital
program and foreign microbial vital program. Our usual patient-specific
homeopathic case analysis method is a characterisation of the human host
having peculiar miasmatic distortions.

Ultimately this inimical inductive stress affects the reproduction,
structure, and products of certain specialised host cells. The resultant
of the sum of the miasmatic infections in the host human is usually a
chronic organic pathology of specific and diagnosable nature. In some
cases this becomes a dissimilar or complex disease.

=============
Acute Susceptibility
These morbid agents (miasms) likely potentiate acute colonization as
“trojan horses” of vital energy for reproducing physical microbes. They
thus provide a mechanism for the concept of susceptibility, which is
proclivity of a colonisation becoming an *"infection"* in any given
individual.
So the life force of microbes is IMO likely to be the very key to what we
treat with remedies, in acute AND chronic disease.

Best,
Andy

Tanya-
are you not trying to use a very wide brush here to tar?
I understand that politics and economics work everywhere... do you
think it is not at work even in this list here?

Why would Yahoo run this group at all? Why are these companies giving
free email?

But that does not take the merits away from where it is due- I accept
that the power of established medicine has become extensive... at the
same time accountability has also become extensive in modern medicine
is what I am saying - why are they talking about evidence based
medicine otherwise? The same economics will also establish control in
one way or other... Economics is the reason even alternative medicine
is seeing progress
And if Homeopathy becomes the dominant medicine ( yeah - right) do you
think there is not going to be politics /economics behind it? Find and
tell me where it is not present.. Politics will exist wherever ego is
- which is everywhere... Economics is the basis of everything in
modern life..

I am not saying that economics is not behind a lot of research- I do
not agree that all medical research is bunkum.Are you saying the
research in all fields is not done with a quest for discovering and
curiosity but always with an ulterior motive? If not, why single out
medical research? How about oil companies? Are you still riding a
horse in protest?

If peer review and double blind is commented as gobbledygook - no
wonder dream and meditation provings represent the pinnacle of pure
research in homeopathy-
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Tanya Marquette" wrote:
and grow
history
totalitarian
agent".
would also
so e.g.
used
dynamis).
consider
are then
between
difference
allopaths
primarily
inimical to
invisible
disease
symptoms,
Theory in
or virus
Homoeopathy
arising out
minutus site

wide brush painting? well, i think there is need to see big pictures as
well as delve into minutae. i tend to seek the big picture which provides
the understanding of the tendencies, directions and manipulations that
occur.

that being said, i am more than willing to ascribe well-meaning to many
who enter the world of alleged science, be it research or applied medicine.
but if the system's core philosophy is not laid out on the table, then what
i
see is the development of blind faith in the system without questioning the
center of the beliefs. for example, i was recently assailed by a man who
does bio-chem research for bayer (as in the aspirin manufacturer). he
was incensed that i would impune the reputation of bayer or scientific
research by implying economic motive with manipulation of data or
public spin. he practically spit in my face telling me that he was a
'scientist' and would not allow me to make any statement about science
of which he was the deciding expert! bayer, of course, is in the middle of
a scandel now regarding some gmo rice that is contaminating the
international
rice production and done so without enough testing or any approval.
i must add that in the work that i am doing for him, he has proven himself
to
be a mediocre performer with a tyrannical personality.

i think you and i will continue to disagree. your training seems to allow
you to hold open some faith in the allopathic world, where i cannot share
in it. i must tell you that each and every time that i interacted with the
allpathic world, the result was at best a waste of time, but generally it
was aggravating, paternalistic, and disastrous. and since i grew up with
a mother who didn't drag me to doctors with every sneeze (despite her
worship of doctors), i can recall almost every doctor's visit in my entire
life and that of my children. it was her cheapness that kept me from
medicine
and today i am grateful for the better than average health that i have due
to
the lack of toxic meds that were so happily handed out.

tanya
and educational benefit of its members. It makes no representations
regarding the individual suitability of the information contained in any
document read or advice or recommendation offered which appears on this
website and/or email postings for any purpose. The entire risk arising out
of their use remains with the recipient. In no event shall the minutus site
or its individual members be liable for any direct, consequential,
incidental, special, punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever
caused.
your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to receive a
single daily digest.

Dear Shanon and everyone,
In 1831 Hahn. wrote " On the mode of propagation of the asiatic cholera ":

"The most striking examples of infection and rapid spread of cholera take place, as is well known, and as the public journals likewise inform us, in this way: On board ship - in those confined spaces, filled with mouldy watery vapours, the cholera miasm finds a favourable element for its multiplication, and grows into an enormously increased brood of those excessively minute, invisible, living creatures, so inimical to human life, of which the contagious matter of the cholera most probably consist..."
The Lesser Writhings of Samuel Hahnemann, P. 758

Ben.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
place, as is well known, and as the public journals likewise inform us, in
this way: On board ship - in those confined spaces, filled with mouldy
watery vapours, the cholera miasm finds a favourable element for its
multiplication, and grows into an enormously increased brood of those
excessively minute, invisible, living creatures, so inimical to human life,
of which the contagious matter of the cholera most probably consist..."

Key word - probably
"of which the contagious matter of the cholera most probably consist...""
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures@tesco.net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Tanya Marquette"
bayer, of course, is in the middle of
Pharmaceuticals are out for money. I do not contradict that. The fact
that it is in the middle of a scandal itself proves that there are
checks and balances that work.

Just because pharmaceuticals are out for money does not make all bio
medical research suspect...they are also aware that they can get into
scandals. Economic factor itself provides the checks. If one company
gets ahead with questionable means there is another one to pull the
rug from underneath purely to shore up its own profits.

My call is to find out if there is anything in modern bio medical
research that homeopathy could borrow and make use to grow in a better
way than lighting incense sticks, looking for chakras and getting into
the tent with a crystal ball- heck we even had discussion about soul
of termites and cottages having spirits-

himself

Well, they are all people like us - education does not change that- do
we not see brilliant people in homeopathy being down right
dictatorial? That does not prove anything.

i must tell you that each and every time that i interacted with the
generally it
I am sorry to hear that... but at the same time I just think about the
-at least hundreds of - people I was able to save and my unit was able
to when I worked in the Emergency room during my training and who
would have died for lack of that medical care-

Allopathy is here to stay. Nothing what we do is going to change its
mass appeal. Homeopathy would also be around - still playing second or
even third fiddle. I am just trying to see in what ways we can be
flexible enough to exist with allopathy without giving up too much of
our core beliefs and at the same time not irritating others by our
frantic "anti this or that" efforts so that we can also grow and stand
equal to allopathy in terms of acceptance in the general medical world
or whatever "scientific world " you would call "scientific" and not
gobbledy gook.

As I have been saying being "anti- this or that" is not the
homeopathic way of solving this problem- it is just not in the spirit
of homeopathy-
research to
coats and
talked
about
to posit
improved
this?)or
ephemereal or
them a
than to
resp.
contradiction.
specific
much more
wrote:
acting
organism, its
exposed
recommendation
for any
special,
simply
contained in any
on this
howsoever
simply change
receive a
Homoeopathy
arising out
minutus site

> the cholera miasm finds a favourable element for its
human life,
consist...""
Sure - if it were now, with all the proof- he would have said "of
which the contagious matter of the cholera most definitely consist..."