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Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:03 am
by Simon King LCPH MARH
This is surely the problem with other Rxs MM's too, in that the
delusions represented are only a sample of those possible. It doesn't
mean that the MMs are inaccurate , just incomplete. The question is how
incomplete therefore are the rest of the proving Sx?

Talking of the 'feel' of remedies, I will always remember that the
effects of ingesting a whole carton of Potters Asthma mixture, as a
close friend of mine did, are very similar to the states some of the
patients were in at the psychiatric hospital that I worked at.
I remember how clearly it struck me that my friend's hallucinations
that he was in some transaction with an unseen person were identical to
a patient I had recently observed. Unfortunately he then fell
backwards perfectly straight with no apparent awareness he was falling.
Until that point he had seemed quite contented, but this fall caused
him to vomit and subsequently have difficulty breathing as he had half
inhaled some but couldn't understand that in his state. This caused him
to panic. He was taken to hospital kicking and cursing to have his
stomach pumped. It took six of us to keep him still on the operating
table!
If I remember correctly it said 'Datura somnivorum' was the main
active ingredient. Without looking it up I don't know whether the Sx
picture would have that contented hallucinated state followed by panic
generally or not, but I suspect it would as the mixture was banned
shortly after, having been overindulged in by many a youngster and
exposeed in the papers. The main point made in the news apart from its
hallucinogenic properties was that it raised the heartbeat to around
180 and gave its subject superhuman strength.

Not dissimilar then to fly agaric that the vikings used to go 'berserk'?

Despite the incompleteness of some MM I remember being surprised how
accurate the description of the effects of a certain mushroom were.
Someone had from somewhere procured a compendium of natural highs. I
apologise that I cannot remember exactly what the mushroom was ( very
likely fly agaric) but we had picked every type going locally and the
house was full of them drying; some hanging up, some on shelves, some
on the TV some over the stove etc. perhaps someone will know from the
following description. I had previously tried several to no effect -
this was different. I think it was made into a tea but we might have
smoked it, I seem to remember not wanting to take the tea as it stuck
me as less safe (bloody dangerous more like). Anyway, (roughly
remembered) the book described how one would feel giggly for 10 mins,
agitated for 15 minutes, have a sensation of wellbeing for the next 20
minutes, and then some other state. What I do remember very clearly is
the accuracy of the time that these states changed, it was uncanny, the
state changed quite suddenly and check the watch..- exact! So in that
description of its effects it appeared complete.

On cannabis, Re: the antidote to acute ill effects of cannabis (fear)
I always found alcohol to be very effective. I remember a nurse friend
who phoned me at midnight. She had smoked a bong and now was convinced
she was going to die. Why? Because as a nurse she knew that just before
people have a heart attack they often need to evacuate their bowels. As
she needed to go to the loo she concluded this was a sign that she was
about to have a heart attack. I told her to drink a large measure of
whatever spirit she could find in as palatable form as she liked as
quickly as possible, which she did as we stayed on the phone. within 10
minutes or so she was giggling with relief. I had learned this one
previously from personal experience:-). So how about considering
alcohol in potency for the young chap currently under discussion? Just
a thought.
regards
Simon King

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Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:01 pm
by J Lucas
It could make for fascinating reading if someone could actually bring them
all or most of them together and discover a common theme (other than just
plain absurd) that added to the sx picture and understanding of the
homeopathic rx

best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 24/10/04 3:38 pm, Julian Winston at jwinston@actrix.gen.nz wrote:
The problem with the "delusions" of Cann-i (and Stamonium, and
Hyoscyamus, etc.) is that there are so many of them experienced by
many people over the years, that it is impossible to catalog them all
with any accuracy.

edited

JW
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Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:04 pm
by J Lucas
I am sure you know, but for others who don't - 'Datura' is Stramonium.

Best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 24/10/04 10:02 am, Simon King at sk2004@ntlworld.com wrote:

Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:07 pm
by Simon King LCPH MARH
Surely 'plain absurd' would be the theme?

regards
Simon King

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Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:26 pm
by J Lucas
Actually on a more serious note I think something else could come through
e.g. there is a lot to do with movement and rapid shifting, sort of shape
shifting, also much to do with specific shapes - often round or cylindrical
ones. Heat is another theme as is music/sounds but that one is more obvious.

Might seem a stupid question but one has to ask why people indulge knowing
that these sometimes borderline frightening images occur.

Best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 24/10/04 11:07 am, Simon King at sk2004@ntlworld.com wrote:

Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:39 pm
by d_barbara_hamilton
..p'haps because both cann-i and cann-s are under "Foolish Behaviour" in
Refworks... ?

regards, Barbara

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, J Lucas wrote:
through
cylindrical
obvious.
knowing
than

Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:49 pm
by Simon King LCPH MARH
Hi Joy,
the themes you describe would need differentiating from those of LSD,
also used a lot in 'those days'

In fact it might be a very good excercise to differentiate between :
Canni-i; LSD, Hyos, Stram, Opium, Anhalonium, etc.

How about we draw up a list FIRST, then get the list ( now there's an
Alice in wonderlamd concept) to jointly ( oh this is getting
ridiculous!) draw (!) up the differentaitions?

With regard to why people indulge, and I presume you refer specifically
to canni-i here, I think it is because the good times outweigh the bad.
Also the fear element usually subsides given a little time - and the
good feelings predominate again. it usually only occurs from
overindulgence. i.e. they smoked too much. As with alcohol there are
those who habitually overdo it and those that don't. Those who
experience fear too frequently give it up, - I know quite a few of
those!
regards
Simon King

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Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:03 pm
by Julian Winston
At 10:02 AM +0100 10/24/04, Simon King wrote:
[snip]
The leaves of the datura plant, when smoked, were supposed to have a
relaxing effect on the lungs. In the USA this product came in two
forms-- a powder to be burned, and pre-rolled "cigarettes"-- both
under the name of "Asthmador."

I remember getting some from a pharmacy and trying them. Nothing special.
This was about 1967. I tried buying some in 1969 and they were no
longer available.
Sigh... I once tried "baby Hawaiian Wood-Roses" It was NOT a good
time. Never thought I'd come out of it. Have no idea what the
botanic name for them is.

JW

Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:03 pm
by Julian Winston
At 11:25 AM +0100 10/24/04, J Lucas wrote:
A good question.
Some of it is just pure curiosity and experimentation. Just like a proving.
Another is the sense that "that won't happen to me."

I know that, with the stronger hallucinogens, I never took them
without someone being nearby who understood the process and could
talk to me.
Timothy Leary's book "The Psychedelic Experience" (which was based on
the Tibetan Book of the Dead) was an invaluable resource for me.
With the exception of some strange experiments (like with the
Hawaiian wood-roses) I always went into a "trip" with a plan for what
I wanted to get out of it-- and I shared that with my "guides".
They were all very positive experiences. Then again, I ALWAYS did
such things outdoors in a natural environment.

JW

Re: remedy / rubric help pls

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:18 pm
by Peter Graham
This made me belly laugh.......

Michele.