Minutus

As I read it, he wasn't willing, really; he was urged - by forces outside
his knowing, and by his sense of responsibility. Not one of the high and
mighty at the Council of Elrond seemed fit, and yet the job needed to be
done. I think he would have been quite satisfied to be a loyal servant to
anyone present there who would have volunteered to do the job. But none did.
(I wouldn't have been be surprised to read it was a setup, really, organised
by Gandalf, Aragorn and maybe others: The goal must be for Frodo to
volunteer, because he is best fit, and if he volunteers, that will be the
best guarantee he will do anything to deliver.... But that setup would have
been a nasty thing to read).

Mancinella for Gollum: I feel the Ring, or rather the power of it, has
really become a part of Gollum; he has become a ring-junky, as any bearer of
it becomes a ring-junky, sooner or later, and will answer to its call. I do
not see that as a delusion, but as a real, lifelong, dependence.

FWIW,

Hennie

Liz and other Ring-bearers
I should point out that my mention of Frodo wounded in the heart is
what I observed in the movie--and the wound was probably between the
heart and the L shoulder, as I recall. I dont have the books anymore.
In the movie, I recall it may have been galadriel's or Aragorn's
eventual bride's blessing on Frodo for the journey carrying the ring
(bestowed on him at Rivendell) which saved him from death. But the
wound may not have been directly to the heart. Just to make sure i do
not perpetuate inexact info.

As Liz points out, do think OCD is in Gollum's demeanor.

This rubric out of murphy is incomplete of course, but I note that hyos
is there in bold type.

Murphy obsessive compulsive disorder--anac2 ars3 aur 1 calc 2
hyos3 ign2 iod1 med3 nat-m2 nat-s2 nux-v3 plat2 psor1
puls3 sil2 staph2, sulph1 syph1 thuj2

Gollum Reps:

Delusion [sen] double/possessed [rem] avarice/selfishness [rem] throat
[2] scraping/clearing [rem] talks [sen] himself: acon.102, anac.139,
bell., con., 2hyos., 3Lach.102, mosch., petr., 2plat.209, plb., puls.,
2rhus-t., stram.139, thuj.36, verat., zinc.209

Hyos, Stram

If cross with Murphy's rubric, we get anac, hyos, plat, puls, Med
maybe should be there (med not represented in rep well, and Lyssin is
not as well.)

if add "dwarfishness" for the regressive aspect of gollum, we get:
Delusion [sen] double/possessed [rem] avarice/selfishness [rem] throat
[2] scraping/clearing [rem] talks [2] himself [rem] dwarfishness: con.,
rhus-t., 3Stram.214, 2zinc.209

Stram

Stram comes through, a "superhuman" remedy but one regressed in a sens
(acting from fear (the reptilian brain stem). Gollum appreciates the
company of the hobbits (stram desires company). But otherwise is
completely self-reliant.

This remedy is in Lou Klein's Hydrophobia miasm, characterized by Rage
alternating with Fear, ritual behavior (my precious); and animalistic
and self mutilating (do I recall that Gollum hit himself at some
point?). The idea of a werewolf (a changed human who becomes evil and
regresses to dog-like state (gollum is subservient and a "scout" to
"master", but a malevolent one) (may) be parallel with Lou's
description of this miasm. More importantly, Hydrophobia has a
fascination for SHINY OBJECTS (and aggravation from as well) and the
ring is in this category, especially when the ring first becomes
apparent to Gollum when he is still the human Smeedle (call it a morbid
fascination which leads him to murder and loss of his soul).

Lyssin would also have to be considered in this context along with
Stram and Hyos (it is not so well represented in repertory).

I do not know mancinella well, so discussion of it has been helpful.
Gollum represents a more or less permanent regression, not a periodic
one per se as in hydrophobia. He reverts after he has considered his
"master" to have been a traitor, when Faramir was responsible for his
captivity.
So while Hyos, Stram, Lyssin have much resonance via repertory, they do
not really ring completely true; but Hyos comes closest of the 3, from
joy's description. A homeopath I know once described hyos as "the
beast". Hyos can be a "pig" of sorts, though not the morphological
pig (ant-c).

As for anac, my understanding and experience with clients has always
confirmed "possession" in clients needing this rx. They are ALWAYS
sharing their body with a second being, or being controlled by a parent
or relative who has left a part of their energy in them. It is a
chronic state of duality, usually a mild personality, but always having
poor short-term memory, lapses of another personality (usually a very
angry one) which comes through under stress. Stomach problems, notable
use of choice language (cursing). Itching eruptions rhus-like.
Weakness from hunger, bad headaches amel by eating. But the key is
they are literally either sharing their body with a being they picked
up (research (told to me during hypnosis training (1989)- has shown
that 70% of all people do this during their lives--are clinically
"possessed"); or are being controlled by having reacted to childhood
abuse by being split into two parts with the energy of the abuser
running one part of their body. Anac couples are common, with one
abuser, one abusee, and both will need anac, and both are carrying
around another being or energy. The anac unifies them and they throw
off the being (this can be facilitated by clinical depossession, a
technique of hypnosis. As Sankaran points out, the compensated anac
has become "righteous" to the point of controlling the part of them
which is actually not "them"; just like any type which is not under
stress or illness will not show the typical remedy pattern floridly, or
on the surface, making it often very difficult and speculative to find
their remedy before they break down.

Gollum is bothered by possession. Whether it is chronic or episodal as
joy suggests may be more like mancinella is another question. Gollum's
willingness (however reluctant) to serve a master may be as important
as his susceptibility to influence by other beings from the outside.
Hyos certainly can be run by other beings if is weak or under stress,
and has all the traits of Gollum (selfishiness/avarice; talks to
themself; scrapes and clears throat; vulnerable to having 2 wills or
duality) except the regressive dwarfishness, which however is an
imcomplete rubric and may not express the kind of regression that is
happening (to reptilian existence). But hyos is hydrophobic, which is
a regressive miasm as expounded by Lou Klein.
GREED is a hallmark of Gollum, I think.

MIND; GREED, cupidity (65) : abies-c., acon., agar., all-c., all-s.,
ang., ant-c., ant-t., arg-n., ars., asaf., bry., calc., caps., carb-v.,
caust., cham., chin., chin-ar., cina, coff., euph., ferr., fl-ac.,
graph., hell., hep., hyos., iod., ip., kali-bi., kali-c., lob., lyc.,
mag-c., merc., mur-ac., nat-c., nat-m., nat-p., nat-s., nit-ac.,
nux-m., nux-v., op., petr., ph-ac., phos., plat., puls., rhus-t., sec.,
sep., sil., sol-n., spong., squil., stann., staph., sul-ac., sulph.,
tarent., thuj., verat., zinc.

Greed can be there for Hyos. Mancinella certainly may have it, it
being a lesser used rx that would be good to know more about as it is
probably missed.

For Frodo, Anac state is not such a susceptibility to dualism but is
an artifact of having to bear and wear the ring to enter the 4D plane
which is dominated by ringwraiths and malevolent beings (the Lord of
darkness; Saruman the Luciferian character; having their way with
middle earth. It may be true that he is also susceptible to that to
begin with--so that the internal duality he must experience fits his
susceptibility. But it does not quite seem like a fit. The possession
is not a natural one, but artificial, and everyone who bears the ring
suffers it at least temporarily; even Galadriel. So what IS Frodo's
original susceptibility? As Liz points out, Frodo's childhood and
development before the ring comes to him is probably a key to unlocking
that, if the portrayal by tolkien is a naturally resonant one. This
kind of resonance happens so consistently in literature and film,
indicating that the stories are being written by higher mind from the
archetypal collective "database" allowing often perfect congruence
between storyline character and remedy type.

So is there any more info on Frodo's childhood available ---from those
who have The Hobbit and the first book of the trilogy on hand--that
would give us another handle?

Best,
Andy
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Perhaps it's my naivite , but I'd say he was willing to take on the job
because, in his goodness and simplicity (which is *NOT* the same as
"simple-mindedness"!) and connection to the "bigger picture", he understood
that it was necessary, and the job was his. So much of the difficult but
necessary work of humanity has been done for just that reason -- because
somebody saw that it *had* to be done, and that the task was theirs: the
people thru history who have harbored refugees and helped victims, people
who do rescue work, people who risk their own lives (or give their own
resources) to help or save others. Sure some will have "ulterior motives",
but I think that most do not!

Shannon

on 9/23/04 3:59 AM, liz lalor at lalor@ozonline.com.au wrote:

Frodo doesn't have 2 wills. He has been sent on a mission, he has little
choice, he succeeds the endurance although suffers along the way. He
succeeds and he lives - he never entered into a diseased or deranged state
and without that state you can but only guess. There was nothing to be cured
although with that level of duty and responsibility one can give
intellectual discussion as to what might develop in the way of disease. I
would most definitely argue against Anacardium, regardless of whether one
might be in a remedy state all the time or not. All diseased states (and
thus rx pictures) are capable of moving through stages or becoming stuck in
them. In my not so humble opinion Frodo has no indication of any part of
Anacardium.

Hoffman referred to Anacardium as being the 'confection of fools' due to
weakness of mind, memory and the senses, they became mad on account of using
it too much ('chronic diseases'). Frodo was no fool unless you can argue
that he was daft enough to accept the Quest in the first place.

Gollum on the other hand was in an intractable diseased and deranged state
and thus it makes it easier to assess the sx. His penance is a clear
indication of this - thuja like. I really cannot see Mancinella without the
sexual element being there somewhere as I said before.

What you have to keep in mind is that Tolkien was a devout catholic. And
although born in south africa (there are many stories about his encounters
with spiders which gives us the image of the spider in LOTR), he spent much
of his life in dirty, grimy, industrial Birmingham but he had almost instant
access to some of the most beautiful english countryside - hell and heaven,
with Middle Earth being somewhere in between.

I would the book and the author into your context as well.

best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 23/9/04 10:42 pm, liz lalor at lalor@ozonline.com.au wrote:

Joy if you consider what Sankaran has written about Anacardium in The Soul
of Remedies are you really sure about Anacardium being in a diseased state
ALL of the time?. The basic premise is that within Anac. is a continual
choice over whether to be good or evil. Sankaran says a lot of Anac.
actually turn to Buddhism early on in their lives precisely to keep the
devil in tow. With all the so called 'crazy' remedies within homoeopathy it
has for too long been assumed they are crazy ALL the time it is no different
to the unhealthy states of a Nat mur. A Nat mur will ONLY move into those
states under a particular set of circumstances. It is the same for Anac. as
well as Mancinella. When Kent writes about Anac. he is writing about an
Anac. when they are unwell. With all constitutional states you have to see
behind either the unhealthy or healthy state the THEME of both state that
always relates and reflects the "like" state of what is emotionally amd
mentally and physically running through the picture.Even an Anac. does
actually have a healthy state and that is something that is forgotten in the
concentration on the pictures as described by Kent. Sankaran says of Anac.
that "a compensated Anacardium cannot be cruel even when the situation
demands." They do have "two wills" and they are able to choose.
Mancinella does have the devil always there in terms of how much they need
and rely on a whole series of OCD habits to superstitiously protect them
from the outer and inner world. Gollums need of the Ring has to be
considered in relation to the needs of a person with OCD. liz
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Hi,

Joy wrote:
catholic. And
encounters
spent much
almost instant
heaven,
Glad you said that Joy, as these are 'archetypes' of Tolkein's
making, so based on his
understanding and his observation of human nature - so perhaps it was
he who needed
a remedy like Anacardium, Mancinella, etc., etc.? What perhaps it is
portraying
beautifully however, is that there is good and bad in all of us, and
that disowning that
part of ourselves represented by Gollum and Saruman (sp.?) i.e.
murderous, greedy,
manipulative and false, is a scapegoating of which we are all guilty
at some, or all of
our lives.

Joy wrote:
deranged state
without the

But you did think Hyos., and the sexual element is not represented at
all. Having said
that, it was intended to be read by a wide age range, so not
surprising that any sexual
connotations were not included really ! Not sure it would be
appropriate to hear what
Gollum really got up to on his own ... (Bufo ?)

Regards, Barbara

Ah yes, I agree!! Frodo was a sturdy, healthy guy, who carried his horrible
task with amazing grace and strength. I was looking back thru the first
book for early descriptions of Frodo, and here's a summary:

P.70/ "Some people were rather shocked; but Frodo kept up the custom of
giving Bilbo's Birthday Party year after year until they got used to it. He
said that he did not think Bilbo was dead. ... He lived alone, as Bilbo had
done; but he had a great many friends, especially among the younger hobbits
(mostly descendents of the Old Took [i.e. the Tubercular side of the
family]) .... Frodo went tramping over the Shire with them; but more often
he wandered by himself, and to the amazement of sensible folks he was
sometimes seen far from home walking in the hills and woods under the
starlight. Merry and Pippin suspected that he visited the Elves at times,
as Bilbo had done.
"... Frodo ... found that being his own master and *the* Mr. Baggins of
Bag End was rather pleasant. For some years he was quite hapy and did not
worry much about the future. But half unknown to himself the regret that he
had not gone with Bilbo was steadily growing. he found himself wondering at
times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions
of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams. He began to say
to himself: 'Perhaps I shall cross the River myself one day.' To which the
other half of his mind always replied: 'Not Yet.'
"So it went on until [after some years] Frodo began to feel restless,
and the old paths seemed too well-trodden. He looked at maps, and wondered
what lay beyond their edges.... He took to wandering further afield and
more often by himself; and Merry and his other friends watched him
anxiously. Often he was seen walking and talking with the strange wayfarers
that began at this time to appear in the Shire."

So here are *some* signs of his susceptibility, things which make him
different from "most hobbits"! E.g.:

Desire to travel
desire to wander
Restlessness(?)/Discontented(?)
Desires mountains

"Restlessness" and "Discontented" are too huge to be useful; funnily, the
only remedies I find under mountain-related "mind" rubrics are haliae-lc and
falco (Eagle and peregrine), which I don't know enough about to comment...

But repping "travel" and "wander", the ones that are in both and seem to me
either plausible (or unfamiliar) are: Tub, calc-p, arag, choc, falco-p,
sanic, calc.

Then using the description of his state at the end ("wounded thru the heart"
and etc. -- can't find my book #3!), would give more material. (Maybe calc
is off-base, but there's calc's "horrible things ... affect him deeply"???)

I would not include *any* of the Ring's effects (since so far as we know
Frodo's reactions were are *all* common to anyone who keeps the Ring, except
that Gandalf speculated that all hobbits may be less susceptible than other
mortals to the Ring's effects!).

Besides being a really fun exercise(!), I think this is also a nice
real-life (so to speak ) example of how to sort ouf "common" symptoms
from distinguishing ones? And e.g. when/whether/how to prescribe on effects
of poisoning, toxicity, etc.??? Anyway -- great fun!

Shannon
on 9/24/04 3:34 AM, J Lucas at j.lucas@ntlworld.com wrote:

P 76 of my copy: [Gandalf speaking] "A mortal ... who keeps one of the
Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he
merely continues, until at last every minute is a weariness. ... [S]ooner or
later -- later, if he is strong or well-meaning to begin with, but neither
strength nor good purpose will last -- sooner or later the dark power will
devour him." But I do agree that the *way* the "person" responds, the *way*
they "go under", how hard they fight it and by what means, will depend on
their initial susceptibility and "constitution".
Shannon
on 9/22/04 4:15 PM, liz lalor at lalor@ozonline.com.au wrote:

I would say that Frodo's will is *one* -- e.g. to perform his task or die
trying. The influence he fights against is not from within himself, but is
the direct "toxicity" of the Ring he carries. So he is not making any
*choice* re good and evil; he is simply fighting a battle. Anyway, that's
my reading. Also, Frodo has had no drive to "prove" himself -- to himself
or anyone else -- but simply does what needs doing. I don't see any
pathology there...
Shannon
on 9/23/04 4:42 PM, liz lalor at lalor@ozonline.com.au wrote:

I know we're entering into literary criticism and its warring schools of thought here, but I would support Joy's suggestion that Tolkien's characters can't really be taken out of context of their creator's Geist. These characters, like characters in any dream, are all embodiments of aspects of Tolkien's vital force, as are all fictional characters. I would suggest that they are not in themselves complete, and although they might suggest remedy pictures, the author (if we consider the book and don't engage also with the contributions of the film's participants) is the person who would indicate a remedy picture with the most stability and substance. In a way, this discussion is a fascinating echo of the rainbow of remedies that we often must consider in choosing the similimum for a patient with a complex situation.

Rosemary

And also this story is about a cycle. When Bilbo first met Gollum in his
human form they were friends but this was corrupted and it died when the
power of the ring first intercepted and seduced gollum into his final
penance - the cycle is repeated when Frodo is given the chance to redeem
what has gone before and he takes with him Sam on this journey of
'correction'. Gollum is there trying to spoil it but it turns out ok, this
is the second chance to do it right - and on and on the world goes. It's
life. Mortals die but evil doesn't, Gollum doesn't ever really die.

Best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 24/9/04 4:41 pm, Bob&Shannon at shannonnelson@tds.net wrote:

I would say that Frodo's will is *one* -- e.g. to perform his task or die
trying. The influence he fights against is not from within himself, but is
the direct "toxicity" of the Ring he carries. So he is not making any
*choice* re good and evil; he is simply fighting a battle. Anyway, that's
my reading. Also, Frodo has had no drive to "prove" himself -- to himself
or anyone else -- but simply does what needs doing. I don't see any
pathology there...
Shannon
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