5 year Diarrhea

[Alva Irish]

Hi Joy, Do you have a questionnaire you could send to me?
I will have her fill it out and send it to the list.
Maybe that would help.
Love,
Alva

[andyh]

Alva Irish wrote:
Hi Alva,
I thought Didi's exposition on Pyloric stenosis was really fascinating and instructive.

But if there is edema in the lungs, then that is another aspect to consider and it seems it could be quite peculiar esp. if no congestive heart dx. Here is a search along those lines in Referenceworks:

(drowning) [same remedy as] (pulmonary [sen] edema/water OR flooding OR moisture OR dropsy): 3Ant-t.1101, apis38, ars.171, chel., dig., hydr-ac., hyos., kali-br.223, kali-c., kali-i.231, lach., lyc., nat-m., op., phos.51, plb., puls., rhus-t., squil., stront-c., sulph., verat.
But a search more specific to the case you gave:
(drowning) [rem] (pulmonary [sen] edema/water/flooding/moisture/dropsy) [rem] (stool [sen] orange) [rem] (tongue [sen] cracked [sen] blood/hemorrhage):

apis8, 3Lach.8, phos.

if take out the necessity for bleeding tongue, then add Chelidonium and Nat-mur to these results.

If fears of everything are a big part, maybe Phos deserves a close look. All three of these rx can have chronic diarrhea. Lach is bold for pulmonary edema (but would we expect more obvious heart sx?); (phos italic) and apis of course is there; and Chelidonium and Nat-m also as in below:

(Complete 2000)

CHEST; EDEMA, pulmonary (K838, G708) (49) : am-c., am-i., ant-ar., Ant-t., apis, apoc., Ars., ars-i., aspar., aur-i., beryl., cadm-s., cann-s., carb-v., chel., coch., colch., cortico., crot-h., croto-t., dig., hyos., ip., jab., kali-c., kali-i., kali-p., kres., Lach., lat-m., lyc., Merc-s., nat-m., phos., piloc., plb., pulm-v., puls., rhus-t., sang., senec., seneg., squil., stront-c., stroph., sulph., thal., tub., verat.
CHEST; EDEMA, pulmonary; drunkards, in (K838, G708) (1) : crot-h.
CHEST; EDEMA, pulmonary; scarlatina, with (4) : ant-t., cann-s., phos., squil.

(Synth 8)
CHEST - EDEMA, pulmonaryadon.;1;vh1 adren.;2;vh1 am-c.;2;c2 am-c.;2;k am-c.;2;sne am-c.;2;tl1 am-i.;1;bro1 ant-ar.;3;st ant-t.;3;k ant-t.;3;tl1 apis;2;k apoc.;1;k ars.;3;k aspar.;1;k atra-r.;1;bnm3 aur-i.;2;k beryl.;1;sp1 brass-n-o.;1;srj5 carb-v.;2;k chel.;1;k coch.;1;c2 coch.;1;k colch.;1;k cortico.;1;sp1 crot-h.;1;k crot-t.;1;k dig.;2;br1 dig.;2;k hyos.;2;k ip.;2;k jab.;1;br1 jab.;1;bro1 kali-c.;1;k kali-i.;2;c2 kali-i.;2;k kali-p.;2;c2 kali-p.;2;k lach.;3;c2 lach.;3;k lat-m.;1;sp1 laur.;1;sne lyc.;2;k merc-sul.;3;k nat-m.;2;c2 nat-m.;2;k phos.;2;c2 phos.;2;k pulm-v.;1;c2
pulmon.;1;bro1 puls.;1;k sang.;2;bro1 seneg.;1;k squil.;1;k stroph-h.;1;br1 sulph.;1;k tub.;1;bro1 tub.;1;c2 verat.;1;c2 verat.;1;k

Was she exposed to someone with scarlet fever 5 years ago (just an obtuse thought).

Here also are some drowning rubrics:

(Complete 2000)
MIND; DELUSIONS, imaginations; drowning in disorganization, she is (1) : lac-eq.
MIND; DREAMS; animals, of; bulls, chased by; jumped into water and drowned, and (1) : tarent.
MIND; DREAMS; animals, of; horses; drowning (K1240, SRIII-312) (1) : crot-c.
MIND; DREAMS; danger; drowning, of (SRIII-274) (2) : bov., lim-b-c.
MIND; DREAMS; drowned, being (SRIII-290) (3) : ign., rumx., verat-v.
MIND; DREAMS; drowning (K1238, SRIII-290, G1022) (26) : aether, alum., ars-met., bov., ign., kali-c., kola., lac-del., lac-leo., lac-lup., lyc., mag-s., merc., merc-acet., merc-i-f., nicc., pap-v., ran-b., rauw., rumx., samb., sil., sol-t-ae., verat., verat-v., zinc.
MIND; DREAMS; drowning; midnight, after (1) : merc-acet.
MIND; DREAMS; drowning; boot owner indifferent to man drowning (1) : lac-lup.
MIND; DREAMS; drowning; danger of (SRIII-290) (2) : ars-met., bov.
MIND; DREAMS; drowning; drowning man, of a (K1238, SRIII-290, G1022) (3) : lyc., sil., sol-t-ae.
MIND; DREAMS; drowning; foundering boat, on a (K1238, SRIII-290, G1022) (2) : alum., lyc.
MIND; DREAMS; drowning; mother had been drowned, that her (K1238, SRIII-290, G1022) (2) : nicc., rauw.
MIND; DREAMS; drowning; people (SRIII-290) (3) : lyc., mag-s., verat.
MIND; DREAMS; drowning; someone trying to open her mouth, and (1) : aether
MIND; DREAMS; drowning; son, of (1) : lac-del.
MIND; DREAMS; murdering; drowning two people in pool (1) : ozone
MIND; FEAR; general; drowned, of being (K44, SRI-496, G35) (2) : cann-i., cupr-acet.
MIND; SUICIDAL disposition; drowning, by (K85, SRI-977, G68) (20) : ant-c., arg-n., aur., bell., dros., hell., hep., hyos., ign., lach., nux-v., ped., puls., rhus-t., sec., sil., staph., sulph., ust., verat.
MIND; SUICIDAL disposition; drowning, by; seven pm. or eight pm. (1) : dros.
MIND; SUICIDAL disposition; drowning, by; love, from disappointed (SRI-977) (1) : hyos.
MIND; SUICIDAL disposition; drowning, by; mania, in (1) : sec.
MIND; SUICIDAL disposition; drowning, by; seeks to escape, after menses (1) : ign.
MIND; SUICIDAL disposition; drowning, by; thinks with pleasure of (1) : puls.

(Synth 8)

MIND - DELUSIONS - suicide; impelled to commit - drowning; by
MIND - FEAR - drowned, of being
MIND - JUMPING - impulse to jump - river; into the
MIND - SUICIDAL disposition - drowning, by
DREAMS - ACCIDENTS - drowning
DREAMS - DANGER - drowning, of
DREAMS - DROWNED, BEING
DREAMS - DROWNING
DREAMS - DROWNING - man is drowning
DREAMS - DROWNING - mother is drowning
DREAMS - DROWNING - people are drowning
DREAMS - HORSES - drowning
GENERALS - DEATH APPARENT - drowned persons, of
Don't know if this is helpful, but bring up rx for study.

Best,
Andy

[Alva Irish]

Thank you Andy!
No Scarlet fever, but I will see if any of these fit!
Thank you!
Alva

[Shannon Nelson]

Hi Robyn,

(Oops, this got sent to "drafts", sorry it's behind-hand!) I'm intrigued by
your remark that you don't find it necessary to bring in the mentals. The
method I was primarily taught places such emphasis on mentals (yah, pretty
Kentian), that I wouldn't know where to begin, to choose a remedy without
looking at the mentals. I was taught to ignore mentals only if they are
either too vague, or haven't changed significantly since the (acute-ish)
episode you're trying to treat, or if the mentals seem entirely normal, no
disorder except on the physical. But you seem to be saying something
different. Could you explain more for me? (And a late PS, does the added
info about her car crash change your thought re mentals, or no?)

Thanks!
Shannon

on 3/24/04 7:23 PM, Alva Irish at dr_irish@bellsouth.net wrote:

[andyh]

Dear Alva,
Here is another version of the previous search on this case-- lung as well as pulmonary to make it more inclusive.

(edema/water/dropsy) [sen] (pulmonary/lung) [rem] (crack [sen] tongue) [rem] (bleeding/hemorrhage [sen] tongue) [rem] (stool [sen] yellow/orange): apis15, ars.36, ars-i., bar-c., 2bry.11, bufo36, calc., carb-v.11, chin.10, crot-h.11, cur.1088, hyos.11, iod., kali-bi.8, kali-c., kali-i.110, kali-p.85, 2lach.8, lyc., merc.20, nat-m.28, nit-ac.8, op., petr.36, ph-ac., 3Phos.8, plb.2064, puls.8, rhus-t.223, sep.8, sil., stram.8, sulph.8, tarax., thuj.37, tub., verat.11
Another thought-I think I missed what happened when Bry was given, but thought I read something about it making something better, but the patient was still unwell. If Bry worked externally, but pt still unwell and no Herings rule evidence (or pt worse feeling though externally less symptomatic) then perhaps it is a nat-m case and bry (its acute analog) suppressed. Just another idea for the hopper.

Best,
Andy

[Robyn]

***Shannon, I am not sure if I can answer that query too well in this medium
in this forum - but will attempt.

Firstly, I have to say that I often prescribe on mental and or emotional
symptoms.
I also, prescribe on physical symptoms without mental or emotional symptoms.
And I do prescribe on physcical symptoms with mental and emotional included.
And i also prescribe for a mental emotional issue,and include some
physicals.

Based on the above, i suppose you would wonder what would make me decide
which one?

The answer is rather complex, and i am sure I will not really cover it in
this post. What I can say is that each case that walks thru my door seems to
ask for one of these options. I may make a decision to use one of the
options, and the client may have been better served with one of the others,
but, that just points to the complexity of making the homoeopathic
prescription.

I am averse to always doing it one way. This is very clearly my stance!

I often get clients who only want a psychological consultation (that being
one of my hats) but who clearly would benefit from a homoeopathic remedy,
and if one is clear, I will offer it and it may only be based on the
psychological presentation. I have had alot of success using this method.

On the other hand, I have also had success using any one of the
abovementioned methods. It all depends on the case and the presentation, and
the observations i make at the time.

If homoeopathy is based on the vitalist paradigm, then, a disordered vital
force, may present in any of the above combinations. I don't think that
means that if there is a purely physical presentation, then there is no
mental or emotional component, but it may be superfluous if the disordered
vital force is wholistic in its construct. Therefore it seems perfectly
reasonable to me, that if you treat one presentation of the disorder, you
may be inadvertently treating all aspects, those apparent and those not
apparent.

If a clear similimum can be found using only physicals, and included in
these are characteristic particulars and peculiars etc. then I don't see the
need to throw in mentals and emotionals, just because everyone has emotions
and mental processes. If something stands out, and prods at me, I will
respond, and look at it to see if it is important in the picture presenting.
There is also the problem of interpretation - which to me frankly, is a big
problem. I have watched people on these lists take a phrase mentioned by
someone, and offer heaps of rubrics as interpretations, and that can lead to
quite a big error of judgement I believe due to the variations and
multitudes of possibilities.

Most people who have chronic physical problems that lead them to seek help,
are going to be worried about their condition - it is the level of response
and the negative effect it has that to me is important to assess.

On the same note, if a mental or emotional problem is at the cause of a
physical presentation, and I don't pick it up, or the client just won't
offer the info, then all you can go on is what you are given. This keeps the
whole thing less speculative and easier to work with in the long run.

Re the case Alva presented. Personally, I feel that there was not enough
information offered to really comment on this case other than to suggest
investigations that she should do, and i mentioned that I felt embarrassed
that I had responded so quickly with a repertorial type analysis, without
having the whole case in front of me. It is, I think a big mistake, to jump
in like this and do rep when only a small part of the case is presented. A
paper case like this is fraught with danger and potential mistakes, and it
seems that Alva had not finished taking the case, as there were more
comments coming afterwards, after consulting the client with suggestions
from the list.

Whether or not the accident and consequent feelings the client felt are the
cause of her chronic diarrhoea - is not for me to say - and it would be
remiss of me to even attempt without meeting the lady and taking the case.

This has turned into a bit of a rant, so will finish here.
This by no means covers my feelings on the use of mental emotional symptoms
in a case. This is a big topic, and worthy of discussion.

I will think on it more - it is an area I am deeply interested in and would
love to find a solution to the dilemmas that face homoeopaths with
methodolgy problems like this.

All the best

Robyn
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[Joy Lucas]

I too thought the possibility of pyloric stenosis was a good one. I also
think the state of the tongue is important. As it is the beginning of the
alimentary tract and it is cracked and bleeding with a sore tip (which was
one reason I thought about Arum trip) - this could mean that the rest of the
digestive system is in a similar state.

Back to pyloric stenosis - what about Ornithogalum. This remedy has a
strange sensation - as if a bag of water lies in the chest - and of course
it is one of the best remedies for shock. Big cancer rx as well.

Just a tidbit for today

Best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 26/3/04 1:15 AM, andyh@mcn.org at andyh@mcn.org wrote:
Hi Alva,
I thought Didi's exposition on Pyloric stenosis was really fascinating and
instructive.

(edited all the other wonderful data)

Best,
Andy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Robyn]

Pyloric stenosis is rare in anyone over the age of 6 months

the signs and symptoms of this condition are pretty clear

I seriously doubt that this condition is in anyway possible for this lady
with chronic diarrhoea

Vomiting - usually projectile being the most obvious.

Maybe Didi meant something else?

Best

Robyn

"If the matter is one that can be settled by observation, make the
observation yourself." (Bertrand Russell)

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[Joy Lucas]

It does begin in infancy but I have had a few clients who have suffered from
this (problems with the pylorus outlets) right into adulthood. If the
susceptibility is there.....

best, Joy

www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
on 26/3/04 1:07 PM, Robyn at folcook@dodo.com.au wrote:

[Alva Irish]

Hmmm! Thank you! I will take this into consideration!
Great information!
Love,
Alva