Minutus

I would aver, however, that DE, judiciously used, and especially around the house, in bedding and corners, will help control existing gross infestation. There is no way I would compare it to a potent neurotoxin! But, that said, there are still many insults being perpetrated on this dog, and these need to be cleaned up, and a thorough constitutional case taken. "This for that" works no better on animals than on us, and the presence of parasites is always an indicator of failing health. An honestly biologically appropriate diet, no poisons, and incisive homeopathy should work. I see the various behavioral issues as part of the chronic disease, but I also think that a gentle and effective "teaching" system, such as SATZ, will give this dog a sense of security and purpose he now lacks, and this will aid greatly in his healing. Ask me more if you like.

ginny
All stunts performed without a net!

Irene,

At first, I thought so too, but found that is not necessarily so. I should definitely have mentioned that Food Grade is the one to buy in my previous post.

I researched this pretty heavily several times in the past and again a couple of weeks ago when we bought some to use on carpenter ants in our home. We have a dog and several cats (not to mention us...) and I also was concerned about them inhaling the stuff. I bought the PermaGuard food grade DE.

Here are some links that explain why I decided to use it:

Source: http://www.earthworkshealth.com/Diatoma ... th-FAQ.php
"4. I have heard DE is dangerous--especially breathing it in.
Food Grade DE often gets confused with filter grade DE. Filter grade DE starts out as food grade, but it is heated to about 1000 degrees and chemicals are added to crystallize it. This works great for filtering but is dangerous to people and animals. Breathing the crystallized product in over long periods of time causes a disease called silicoses. The world health org. has said that DE needs to be less than 2% crystalline silica in order to be considered safe. The filter grade DE is 60% crystalline!! -- Stay away from it --- it is dangerous!! Perma-Guards food grade DE on the other hand is less than .50% crystalline silica. As you can see, that is more than 4 times less than it needs to be to be considered safe! Daily use of Food Grade DE for people, pets and around the garden is perfectly safe. Food Grade DE should be treated like any other dusty product, if you are going to breath it in over long periods of time, wear a dust mask ---- but it should in no way be compared to the dangerous crystallized filter grade."

But, since those guys sell the DE and are not likely to say "don't buy the stuff, it's dangerous", I decided to dig further:

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/degen.html
"Has anyone studied non-cancer effects from long-term exposure to diatomaceous earth?

In a rabbit study, researchers found no health effects after applying diatomaceous earth to the rabbits' skin five times per week for three weeks. In a rat study, researchers fed rats high doses of diatomaceous earth for six months. They found no reproductive or developmental effects. In another rat study, the only effect was more rapid weight gain. That study involved 90 days of feeding rats with a diet made of 5% diatomaceous earth.

When guinea pigs were forced to breathe air containing diatomaceous earth for 2 years, there was slightly more connective tissue in their lungs. When researchers checked before the 2-year mark, no effects were found.

A very small amount of crystalline diatomaceous earth may be found in pesticide products. Long-term inhalation of the crystalline form is associated with silicosis, chronic bronchitis, and other respiratory problems. The bulk of diatomaceous earth is amorphous, not crystalline. The amorphous form is only associated with mild, reversible lung inflammation." (There's a lot more info on this site too)

http://www.naturalnews.com/030688_Diato ... ealth.html
"IMPORTANT NOTES: Industrial grade diatomaceous earth, which has larger quantities of a highly crystallized form of silica, should never be inhaled due to possible health risks for the lungs. When using food grade diatomaceous earth externally, such as in the garden or on pets, it is probably a good idea to wear a dust mask and gloves. Breathing in too much food grade diatomaceous earth may irritate the mucus membranes in the nose and mouth and it may dry out your skin. Once the dust settles, it does not pose a threat. Diatomaceous earth can also dry out your skin.

More links:
http://www.thescienceforum.com/health-m ... erous.html
http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/parasit ... ontrol.htm

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5593358_side- ... earth.html

As usual, always do your own research, just to be sure and safe.

Agi
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers wrote:

Your flea information is not correct. There are no fleas hopping about the house unless you have rat fleas.
There are over 2000 species of fleas.
Ctenophalides felis (the cat flea that affects cats and dogs and other pets) cannot survive if it falls off the animal! It will die in under 24 hrs. The cat flea eats, has sex and makes eggs, ALL on the cat or dog (and very seldom on humans who are not their preferred diet).

The eggs are slick, and fall off the animal, along with "flea dirt" which is larvae food. These hatch and the little larvae move 18 inches or more, looking for a dark place, like under your chair or bed, and well dug into the carpet, out of the way of the vacuum cleaner, where they pupate. The pupa case is tougher than any known insecticide or chemical, and they wind themselves firmly into carpet fiber so they do not vacuum anyway.

If conditions are right (fairly high humidity from cat breath, and fairy high temperature from animal heat, and increased pressure on the floor from walking, and increased carbon dioxide such as cat breath):
When the flea detects these (nobody knows how), form a cat or dog (or you), and as the animal continues to go by, the flea hatches and leaps onto the animal instantly in one movement before the animal even finishes walking past!!! (It can hang out for six months for such an opportunity).

SO if YOU get a flea, it's because you walked past a pupa - or it walked from cat to you. They do not jump off.

...and then the eat, sex and lay eggs cycle repeats. A cat flea (which is also the main flea on dogs) eats 22 times its own weight in blood per day so this is a serious cause of potentially life threatening anemia, especially in cats who have very little spare blood volume.

Way better to get some Frontline SPRAY (applied by hand not by spraying till the ENTIRE animal is damp, and at least 7 days away from a bath - than to have the anemia - which not only kills but reduces ability to resist illness and infection in general. Fleas are much more serious than an itchy nip, for cats. (Not to mention they carry tapeworm, which can take 6 months to develop in the cat before you notice the problem.)

Some more cat flea information:
* Tho thirds of them are female.
* Ten fleas and their offspring produce 250,000 fleas in month.
* Fleas live 100 to 200 days.
* Fleas thrive at 22C/72F to 35C/95F. Outside that range they die easily.
* They need 50% or more humidity. Lower and they die in hours. (But find a safer drier than DE! Like something edible and nutritious - brewer's yeast maybe.)
* They need shade - sun kills. (So cut the lawn very short if pets go out and treat shade areas)
* Above 5000 ft, most fleas dry out.
* It is dry AND too cool (see temps above), only 5% of pupae survive!
* Ten days of real cold (3C/37F) will kill ALL fleas.
* A few hours of freezing will kill all fleas.

Problem is - the fleas stay warm and moist on the animal.

SO now you can plot your flea warfare, with better information:-)
Good luck, they are very successful pests.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Judiciously? What is judicious about glass shard sandpapering the lungs and intestines?

How is that supposed to help?
It's not like fleas walk around on bedding etc:-)
Anything rough enough to kill fleas by physical damage will more than damage lung and intestine tissues.

DE is damaging to the lungs, remember the animals breagthe close to that ground. Not 5 foot above as we are. Also DE is very bad for the insides. Cats groom it all in. It messes up the gut lining something terrrible.
Rub some on your skin to know how abrasive it is on TOUGH skin - the insides are NOT tough, neither lungs nor the delicate gut lining with its essential villi structures.

There are a lot of better options is the point.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

It IS so - by legal definition.
Your link is not valid - the people who sell the stuff will say whatever you want to hear as a buyer.
I have seen the damage under a microscope with my own eyes.

SO believe that or believe the sales hype. Your choice.

Namaste,
IIrene
REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Wonder what would happen with a homeopathic dose of fipronil.

Carol

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers wrote:

Have you looked up the toxins that are in Frontline?
Julie

Irene, thanks for all the detailed information! Here's my bottom line, which is that parasites will strongly bother the most ill among us, and that needs to be the target - to improve health, and use the presence of parasites as an indication of lack thereof. On ill animals that one is treating, or for the imbalance in the environment which causes an upsurge in numbers, the best answer is likely to be constant vigilance and physical removal. I still see nothing that bad about treating the house and yard with DE, and then vacuuming or watering, avoiding the animals' being exposed to it. That's my notion of "judicious" use.

But there are no shortcuts to full health, and we may have a real battle on our hands to achieve it. And I'd look for any other way to manage parasites than the neurotoxins.

ginny

All stunts performed without a net!

There were six links and only the first one was commercial.

Agi
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers wrote:

Detoxification of fipronil poisoning probably.
No relation to fleas
....Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."