Minutus

Typical palliative measures are:
Rubbing down with water (eg wet cloth) to induce evpaoration cooling.
A cool bath.
Ferrum phosphoricum to increase oxygen availability so the body can be helped to fight it.
Sub-cutaneous fluids at room temp instead of body temp.
A fan to help evaporation cooling.
Lower setting on air con.
Snow.
The list goes on...

........Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Ho Soroush,

Because - in the cases where I do it - the CAUSE of the fever cannot be overcome soon enough to prevent brain damage or death. So I use the examples I've mentioned to lower the fever while the true remedy against the main disease including cause of fever - is being handled, and which takes longer than it is safe to wait with prolonged high fever.

For Example: In a case of FIP, the fever is the result of a mismanagement of neutrophil action by a destroyed or extremely damaged thymus. The thymus cannot be fixed by any remedy as fast as needed to prevent fever damage/death, at the point at which the disease can be diagnosed (terminal). So the homeopathic remedy to repair thymus and restore control of the immune system's neutrophils, can be in place fast, but does NOT help the fever (or not noticeably due to the cause taking time to remedy) till much later. I do not want the cat to die from the fever consequences meantime.

So means are used to lower the temperature during treatment to restore the thymus, till the thymus resoration remedy can pick up and continue including the fever. It will NOT start with the fever in my experience - it will start with emotional repair (brain) and then major organ repair (not fever)...etc....takes time before fever is on the list.

IN acute cases by contrast - cases of say an ear infection with high fever - there one does not need palliation as the acute remedy WILL address the cause of the fever.
Yes and no:
No ....it is not so simple: It depends why the fever is there and what it will take to remove the maintaining cause, and how *long* that will take.
Yes ....it is included in the selection of simillimum against the illness overall.

It's important to understand the fever and what affects it and what has to happen for it to be healed.
In many acute situations, a good matched remedy is all you need.
I hardly ever work with those illnesses - which are usually some acute infection or other.
I tend to work with the complex kind of illness where cause and effect is not so cut and dried.
It's too simplistic to say that any remedy with matched fever rubrics is going to fix it fast. One has to understand and address the pathology involved.
Palliation can look like moving towards cure, but actually be moving towards death:-(
So I feel that palliation needs to be towards an end of the pathology. For that you need to understand the pathology....what causes the fever in the body specifically in THIS (whichever current) case. Then if I understand that cannot be fixed fast, and will take time, I MUST palliate prolonged, very high fever, short-term, without suppressing...till the main remedy can kick in and do the longterm fix. The palliation remedy (if any) is an interim measure but supports the system towards the final cure. It will be matched with that in mind. In FIP, the neutrophil toxicity, muscle damage weakness and red cell anemia remove the cat's ability to breathe - making the cat too weak for breathing, too short of oxygen etc (which makes it impossible for the cat to fight the fever) - so palliation can be with say Ferrum-phos (which improves oxygen usage) or Nitricum acidum (which addresses the lack of oxygen via weakness) or other interim remedy that best *matches* the pathology of the fever in that individual - plus other things like evaporation or other physical cooling - while the MAIN remedy addresses the thymus damage which is behind the illness as a whole.

This works - the interim palliation (I prefer to think of it as an "interim supporting remedy") remedy is stopped as soon as the MAIN remedy has done enough healing towards the repair of the actual pathology as a whole.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Thanks Joe
That is why I had mentioned " and the patient starts to feel better", which I doubt was the case with Burnett's child case.
As in allopathy, just because the fever goes down it does not mean that the patient is cured - in fact as in this case the very opposite.
Rgds

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD.
Sent: 18 February 2013 21:31
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: Fever treatment
Something worries me a lot......nobody seems to try and address the origin/cause of the fevers.....

Here is how the great Compton Burnett started his way of treating patients, after this case he encountered: a child was brought in with high fever, the perfect picture of Belladonna; he gave Belladonna, all symptoms abated, only to recur a few days later, same picture; same treatment; same outcome. Then the child died.
Autopsy revealed the cause of the fever was tuberculous meningitis.
Belladonna does definitely not cover that pathology.......

Treating a patient with fever only with the actual situational remedies like aconite, belladonna, chamomille, ferrum phos, etc,......without a proper diagnosis (NOT a label but the knowledge of WHAT is happening and WHY!) is nothing else but allopathy with potentised substance.

It is not homeopathy and it is not even medicine IMO.

Joe.

Dr. J. Rozencwajg, NMD. "The greatest enemy of any science is a closed mind". www.naturamedica.webs.com

Hi Irene
I was thinking of humans only!
I think were all reading from the same hymn sheet!

Obviously very high fevers can cause damage and it shows a system out of control. But if a body is tolerating a high fever of 44 deg C, then let it be, the VF knows what it is doing and is one of the symptoms. However, such a patient needs to be carefully monitored in case febrile convulsions start, in which case cooling is needed and quickly - as it were, one needs to buy time!
Rgds

Soroush
From: minutus@yahoogroups.com [mailto:minutus@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Irene de Villiers
Sent: 19 February 2013 08:55
To: minutus@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Minutus] Re: Fever treatment
Ho Soroush,

Because - in the cases where I do it - the CAUSE of the fever cannot be overcome soon enough to prevent brain damage or death. So I use the examples I've mentioned to lower the fever while the true remedy against the main disease including cause of fever - is being handled, and which takes longer than it is safe to wait with prolonged high fever.

For Example: In a case of FIP, the fever is the result of a mismanagement of neutrophil action by a destroyed or extremely damaged thymus. The thymus cannot be fixed by any remedy as fast as needed to prevent fever damage/death, at the point at which the disease can be diagnosed (terminal). So the homeopathic remedy to repair thymus and restore control of the immune system's neutrophils, can be in place fast, but does NOT help the fever (or not noticeably due to the cause taking time to remedy) till much later. I do not want the cat to die from the fever consequences meantime.

So means are used to lower the temperature during treatment to restore the thymus, till the thymus resoration remedy can pick up and continue including the fever. It will NOT start with the fever in my experience - it will start with emotional repair (brain) and then major organ repair (not fever)...etc....takes time before fever is on the list.

IN acute cases by contrast - cases of say an ear infection with high fever - there one does not need palliation as the acute remedy WILL address the cause of the fever.
Yes and no:
No ....it is not so simple: It depends why the fever is there and what it will take to remove the maintaining cause, and how *long* that will take.
Yes ....it is included in the selection of simillimum against the illness overall.

It's important to understand the fever and what affects it and what has to happen for it to be healed.
In many acute situations, a good matched remedy is all you need.
I hardly ever work with those illnesses - which are usually some acute infection or other.
I tend to work with the complex kind of illness where cause and effect is not so cut and dried.
It's too simplistic to say that any remedy with matched fever rubrics is going to fix it fast. One has to understand and address the pathology involved.
Palliation can look like moving towards cure, but actually be moving towards death:-(
So I feel that palliation needs to be towards an end of the pathology. For that you need to understand the pathology....what causes the fever in the body specifically in THIS (whichever current) case. Then if I understand that cannot be fixed fast, and will take time, I MUST palliate prolonged, very high fever, short-term, without suppressing...till the main remedy can kick in and do the longterm fix. The palliation remedy (if any) is an interim measure but supports the system towards the final cure. It will be matched with that in mind. In FIP, the neutrophil toxicity, muscle damage weakness and red cell anemia remove the cat's ability to breathe - making the cat too weak for breathing, too short of oxygen etc (which makes it impossible for the cat to fight the fever) - so palliation can be with say Ferrum-phos (which improves oxygen usage) or Nitricum acidum (which addresses the lack of oxygen via weakness) or other interim remedy that best *matches* the pathology of the fever in that individual - plus other things like evaporation or other physical cooling - while the MAIN remedy addresses the thymus damage which is behind the illness as a whole.

This works - the interim palliation (I prefer to think of it as an "interim supporting remedy") remedy is stopped as soon as the MAIN remedy has done enough healing towards the repair of the actual pathology as a whole.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: furryboots@catlover.com > only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Dear Irene:

That was a very good explanation about fever. You are a very good teacher and explain well. Your understanding about pathology and the cat's breathing causing lack of oxygen and thus can't fight the fever, is to be admired. Could you recommend a book or the internet, info that explains as clear as you do, on how to analyze the pathology, etc. I am lacking in that area.

Thank You, Jim
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Irene de Villiers wrote:

No I didn't misquote, Irene - here is your email - you didn't say 'continued fever'. You said 'failure to treat fevers over 104 degrees F leads to brain damage' - see your email below.
You keep changing what you said. Later you added brain damage and death. Later you added 'continued' fever.
The issue initially was treating fever with a specific remedy and I shared why we don't treat 'fever' per se - we treat the whole symptom picture .................
Sheri

"From: Irene de Villiers
Mailing-List: list minutus@yahoogroups.com; contact minutus-owner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Minutus] Fever treatment

Actually we do. But treating them and suppressing them are two different things.
Failure to treat fevers over 104 degrees F leads to brain damage - which is not too healthy, and leads to death if untreated.
Helping the individual to naturally fight back, such as by providing extra oxygen (eg Ferr phos 200C frequent small doses) is beneficial in helping the individual's system to overcome the cause of fever - as opposed to suppressing it.
So yes we TREAT a fever - but we do not suppress it.

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: furryboots@catlover.com > only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.

Would you like to prove to all of us that 104 leads to brain damage and death as a fact?

I have shared many references with you...................

here they are again........

http://hss.ulb.uni-bonn.de/2011/2531/2531.pdf

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003090.htm
"Brain damage from a fever generally will not occur unless the fever is over 107.6 °F (42 °C). Untreated fevers caused by infection will seldom go over 105 °F unless the child is overdressed or trapped in a hot place. "

http://www.babycenter.com/404_can-a-hig ... e_11590.bc and even a baby center peds
"Although fevers over 106 degrees are very unusual, unless a child is trapped in a hot place or overdressed, most children can tolerate a temperature of slightly greater than 107 degrees F without long-term effects from the fever itself. "

http://www.childrenscolorado.org/wellne ... myths.aspx

MYTH: Fevers cause brain damage or fevers above 104° F (40° C) are dangerous.

FACT: Fevers with infections don't cause brain damage. Only body temperatures above 108° F (42° C) can cause brain damage. The body temperature climbs this high only with extreme environmental temperatures (for example, if a child is confined to a closed car in hot weather).

http://www.drgreene.com/blog/2001/06/19 ... e-seizures
Many parents fear that fevers will cause brain damage. Brain damage from a fever will not occur unless the fever is over 107.6 degrees F (42C) for an extended period of time.

well, she may know about cats (I can't speak to cats, though I expect same as humans), but fever is not that complicated in children or humans.............but all those words are sure 'impressive'. Fever is not the disease, fever is a symptom and all symptoms are trying to dissipate a disturbance. You don't treat one symptom, stop a fever. You treat the whole person, taking into account all the symptoms including the fever, and find the one remedy that matches best. As the remedy helps to heal the body (or even without remedy the body can heal in most cases), the fever goes because it is no longer needed.

Sheri

At 04:33 AM 2/19/2013, you wrote:

Maybe Irene is referring to cat scratch fever, possibly acquired from an aloof cat not wanting their case taken.
Susan

I was thinking of life forms - includes all:-)
Even plants get overheated and die from it

Namaste,
Irene

REPLY TO: only
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."