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Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:01 am
by Joy Lucas
Your anti hahnemannian methods, your lack of respect for what he provided us with is striking. I cannot understand why you even wanted to try and be a homeopath. And I am curious who is/was teaching you this anti hahnemann, allopathic, more is more, maximum dose regime.

Direction of cure? Not always reliable in the 'from above down' process as I have seen, and I am sure others have also, that cortisone cream can do this. Eczema on the scalp, face or torso suppressed with the cream will readily break out elsewhere such as the feet and hands when the vital force is threatened. So that is curative as well is it?

It is also clear that you haven't been taught when to stop dosing. people can be well relieved and happy when their skin diseases have been suppressed, and can carry the internalised disease for several years until a much more serious diseased state takes shape.

You did make your allopathic methods entirely clear, thank you!

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:33 pm
by Liz Brynin
Hi Chris
Luckily for me, she wasn't on any other medication at all. as for topical applications, her GP had given her a cream to put on after washing her hair, which burnt her terribly, so she stopped using it. The locum then gave her a mousse which helped, but when she stopped using it, the scalp got worse again. She hadn't used it for several weeks and was aware that she needed to try something else. Came to homeopathy in desperation after a mutual friend recommended me.
The Nat Mur characteristics were;
MIND, Grief, silent
MIND, Humiliation, ailments from
MIND, Guilt, feelings
MIND, Anger, suppressed, ailments from
MIND, Crying >
MIND, Work >
MIND, Reserved
HEAD, Eruptions, crusts, white
HEAD, Eruptions, itching
HEAD, Eruptions, desquamating
HEAD, Eruptions, moist, glutinous
FOOD, Coffee desires
FOOD. slimy. aversion to
GENERALS, Time, 3a.m. <
I haven't given you the full details of her story - but take it from me that she was angry, humiliated and found work a relief as no-one at work knew (at that time) what had happened. She also felt guilty because initially her son was arrested too, and she felt she ought to have protected him.
Above all, the overwhelming emotion was shame and reluctance to talk about something so private and painful. She told me her story without looking at me once - did not finish her sentences - her voice trailed away and she was very close to tears but did not actually break down. The atmosphere was very 'heavy' at times.
Anyway, the rertorisation came out at Nat Mur 27/12, Calc Carb. 11/8 Sulph. 13/7 Staph. 15/8 Graph. 9/4 Lyc. 13/7
So I went with Nat. Mur.
Liz

Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:18 pm
by Liz Brynin
Dear Joy
I prostrate myself humbly at your feet - how stupid of me to think that I had improved this poor woman's lot.
You're right - none of my tutors can hold a candle to you with your superior knowledge. It's just amazing how you can sniff out allopathy everywhere. Such a gift - and to do it with only a fraction of the facts that most lesser mortals would need. Amazing!
I am lost in admiration - your skills are wasted on this list.
Liz

Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:17 pm
by Joy Lucas
Thank you. Your waste is not skillful though! and your skills.....? oh well never mind. You'll not learn.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:36 am
by Chris_Gillen
Hi Liz,
Yes, it must have been a truly horrendous time for her, and it's not difficult to imagine the depth of emotional trauma she underwent. By characterstics I meant the sensations and modalities running through the case at that current time. The Desires Coffee, and Aversion to slimy food modalities don't really seem relevant unless they only appeared around the same time as the onset of the main complaint. How would you say they actually impacted the skin eruption in a characteristic way, did they make the eruption bleed, or make her scratch intensely? If not, why include them in a Reperorization unless you're looking for rubrics that might nicely confirm your preconceived remedy choice?
How did she express to you that she felt so personally injured by what her husband had been doing that she now harboured deep *hatred* towards him? Or that she would easily fly off the handle if pressed too hard?
For what it's worth, I've found this to be an important differentiation to make because even though we automatically think "Nat mur" when we're confronted with a deeply emotionally traumatised patient who is apparently "closed off" through guilt, shame, disappointment or remorse, that remedy was never actually rated *characteristically* in the original rubric: "aggravated from emotions, anger with quiet grief and silent disappointment" or even: "aggravated by emotional abuse, with grief and sorrow". Surprising, isn't it?? It's status just been reinvented or clinically elevated to characteristic grade over time in newer repertories as an essential Nat mur keynote essence. In fact, there are many remedies that more closely differentiate "closed off" states of emotional trauma.
I guess it comes down to the way we learn and study remedy characteristics, all too often when we're taught remedies by shortcut keynotes and emotional essences, we just go... Nat mur = grief and Ignatia = acute hysterical grief. And then, if we've been influenced by the populist teachings like that of the naturopath R. Murphy, we think "I'll use a nice gentle 6C potency twice a day for a few weeks..." A lot of us here did that type of (over)prescribing too once upon a time. What we found is, if you hit upon the simillimum first off and overprescribed daily it was easy to mess up cases big time. Just as Hahnemann warned. If you prescribed an imperfect remedy, and at least didn't change remedies too often, you might get away pushing symptoms under the radar. Too many messed up cases to make the odd reasonable outcome seem worthwhile. That's what we found out.
Well, you live and learn, hopefully.
Chris.

Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:17 am
by Liz Brynin
I guess the biggest clue for me was her extreme reserve - she was painfully embarrassed - sat sideways, avoided looking at me, and was on the verge of tears but would not let them come out.
The dermatitis had been around much more mildly on and off since she was a teenager. Likewise, the food likes and dislikes she mentioned as having always been like that - could not drink tea as a girl because of 'bits' in it. The marriage had been poor for several years as he was also an alcoholic, and she had suffered continual humiliation and shame because of this. I saw no problem therefore with including these food details - in effect, I approached the whole case from a 'totality' point of view because of the long-standing nature of her problems.
Her anger was because her youngest son had been affected by her husband's behaviour before she even knew what was going on. She was also angry because her husband had humiliated her. She didn't talk about 'hatred' or flying off the handle - not sure what you mean by this.
Liz

Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:44 am
by Chris_Gillen
The food likes and dislikes appear to be personal idiosyncracies that are unrelated or unchanged during states of illhealth. So as constitutional concomitants, they don't seem relevant.
Her level of embarrassment and her expectation that she will be judged harshly by others is understandable under those circumstances. I was referring to the stand out Nat mur characteristic "Hatred towards those that have injured him". And the tendency for them to fly off the handle in angry outbursts if anyone comes too near to try and comfort or placate - that really just makes everything so much worse. It's palpable and not a little intimidating, you just KNOW to leave them alone. They cry themselves into a state of aggravation and a thumping headache. It's a big thing to actually *hate* somebody. We can feel hurt, betrayed, indignant, ashamed, irritated but be willing to forgive in an instant if we feel the person has understood what their impact on us has been. When we *hate* somebody, now THAT is closed off! There's little room to move on that perspective! If somebody says to me, "I hate blah blah..." I always make sure that's what they actually feel and they're not just using it as a turn of phrase. So if she spoke about her problems in those terms, it would have been a standout Nat mur symptom to me, as opposed to someone who was deeply embarrassed by the circumstances she found herself in and felt better after having a cry - that is still indeterminate.
Anyway...did she go back to playing happy families like a good, sweet little girl?

Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:53 pm
by Liz Brynin
Ok - I see what you mean now. No - she didn't say anything other than that she hated her husband because of how he had hurt the whole family. Maybe I should have probed more, but the poor woman was so ashamed of the whole story, and had such difficulty telling it to me that I didn't dare - I just received what she told me. I think it took a lot of courage to come to that initial consultation.
And she didn't go back to a family life. The family fell apart - well, they were disfunctional anyway. Her son (who she discovered had been self-harming since he found out about the dad) went off to the States, her husband was convicted and is still in prison and she has sold the family flat and bought a new place for herself. I met her again about a year or so later and she was doing very well - happy! And no dandruff or bald patches!
Liz

Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:51 pm
by Chris_Gillen
Well, thanks for sharing Liz.
We should all eat a little more salt, daily, for happy outcomes.
:))
Now, back to homoeopathy...

Re: that the same potency shouldn't be given twice in a row

Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:23 pm
by Gail A
Liz,

Thankyou for posting your case, and giving space for all the discussion
around it.

Chris,

I would be really interested to hear about your Merc case - was there a
direction of cure that you observed so that you were sure there was no
suppression?

Gail
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Brynin" wrote:
that she hated her husband because of how he had hurt the whole family.
Maybe I should have probed more, but the poor woman was so ashamed of
the whole story, and had such difficulty telling it to me that I didn't
dare - I just received what she told me. I think it took a lot of
courage to come to that initial consultation.
they were disfunctional anyway. Her son (who she discovered had been
self-harming since he found out about the dad) went off to the States,
her husband was convicted and is still in prison and she has sold the
family flat and bought a new place for herself. I met her again about a
year or so later and she was doing very well - happy! And no dandruff or
bald patches!
in a row
are unrelated or unchanged during states of illhealth. So as
constitutional concomitants, they don't seem relevant.
harshly by others is understandable under those circumstances. I was
referring to the stand out Nat mur characteristic "Hatred towards those
that have injured him". And the tendency for them to fly off the handle
in angry outbursts if anyone comes too near to try and comfort or
placate - that really just makes everything so much worse. It's palpable
and not a little intimidating, you just KNOW to leave them alone. They
cry themselves into a state of aggravation and a thumping headache. It's
a big thing to actually *hate* somebody. We can feel hurt, betrayed,
indignant, ashamed, irritated but be willing to forgive in an instant if
we feel the person has understood what their impact on us has been. When
we *hate* somebody, now THAT is closed off! There's little room to move
on that perspective! If somebody says to me, "I hate blah blah..." I
always make sure that's what they actually feel and they're not just
using it as a turn of phrase. So if she spoke about her problems in
those terms, it would have been a standout Nat mur symptom to me, as
opposed to someone who was deeply embarrassed by the circumstances she
found herself in and felt better after having a cry - that is still
indeterminate.
little girl?
in a row
painfully embarrassed - sat sideways, avoided looking at me, and was on
the verge of tears but would not let them come out.
was a teenager. Likewise, the food likes and dislikes she mentioned as
having always been like that - could not drink tea as a girl because of
'bits' in it. The marriage had been poor for several years as he was
also an alcoholic, and she had suffered continual humiliation and shame
because of this. I saw no problem therefore with including these food
details - in effect, I approached the whole case from a 'totality' point
of view because of the long-standing nature of her problems.
husband's behaviour before she even knew what was going on. She was also
angry because her husband had humiliated her. She didn't talk about
'hatred' or flying off the handle - not sure what you mean by this.
in a row
difficult to imagine the depth of emotional trauma she underwent. By
characterstics I meant the sensations and modalities running through the
case at that current time. The Desires Coffee, and Aversion to slimy
food modalities don't really seem relevant unless they only appeared
around the same time as the onset of the main complaint. How would you
say they actually impacted the skin eruption in a characteristic way,
did they make the eruption bleed, or make her scratch intensely? If not,
why include them in a Reperorization unless you're looking for rubrics
that might nicely confirm your preconceived remedy choice?
her husband had been doing that she now harboured deep *hatred* towards
him? Or that she would easily fly off the handle if pressed too hard?
differentiation to make because even though we automatically think "Nat
mur" when we're confronted with a deeply emotionally traumatised patient
who is apparently "closed off" through guilt, shame, disappointment or
remorse, that remedy was never actually rated *characteristically* in
the original rubric: "aggravated from emotions, anger with quiet grief
and silent disappointment" or even: "aggravated by emotional abuse, with
grief and sorrow". Surprising, isn't it?? It's status just been
reinvented or clinically elevated to characteristic grade over time in
newer repertories as an essential Nat mur keynote essence. In fact,
there are many remedies that more closely differentiate "closed off"
states of emotional trauma.
characteristics, all too often when we're taught remedies by shortcut
keynotes and emotional essences, we just go... Nat mur = grief and
Ignatia = acute hysterical grief. And then, if we've been influenced by
the populist teachings like that of the naturopath R. Murphy, we think
"I'll use a nice gentle 6C potency twice a day for a few weeks..." A lot
of us here did that type of (over)prescribing too once upon a time. What
we found is, if you hit upon the simillimum first off and overprescribed
daily it was easy to mess up cases big time. Just as Hahnemann warned.
If you prescribed an imperfect remedy, and at least didn't change
remedies too often, you might get away pushing symptoms under the radar.
Too many messed up cases to make the odd reasonable outcome seem
worthwhile. That's what we found out.