Minutus

I think I have answered it (but here you go again describing me as outraged - your perception!) - take the case, quickly like you have to do in dangerous acutes, match sx similarity with a proven remedy, prescribe accordingly to each case vis potency and dosing.

How's that? Just because one person cannot be bothered to do that and invents a new potenised substance without even knowing in advance what it might do when prescribed, because there is no proving so no sx similarity to go by - that's ok with you is it?

And here you go yet again for the umpteenth time to tell people that I would rather have these cats die than live - in someone else's terms you should retract that.

Double standards Shannon.

Joy

http://www.joylucashomeopathy.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/homeopathystudy/

Irene explained why that wasn't sufficient.

I don't remember anything being said about a new potentized substance;
I don't think that has anything to do with the subject.
Nope, and never said it was.

Then Irene's only choice was to innovate.

Never mind, let's move on.
Shannon

In your practice, when your prescribed well indicated remedies didn't act, what dose and potencies had you used? What was the max dose/potency?

Susan

Then I apologise Irene - I mistook what was being said!
II imagined a scenario where you might try a new remedy in desperation, in spite of there being no good provings of it. That would seem to me to be eminently preferable to doing nothing!
Liz

Do you have to be so contemptuous of others opinions? Can you not just state your opinion neutrally?
What I meant by the above is that Hahnemann didn't just grab a substance and decide to make a remedy from it and then prove it and then look for a use for it. He went for those substances which seemed to have relevance - either by what he observed (e.g. his artist friend who was ill and Hahnemann noticed him sucking his paintbrush after dipping it into sepia ink and thus came to try sepia as a remedy) or guided by the doctrine of signatures, for example. He had a hunch - and then tried it out.
In the same way, you might have a hunch about a substance that could help someone, but that hadn't yet been proved. Would you not try it if all else had failed and time was not on your side?
Liz

I would agree with that, but I consider that the rubrics developed
from actual cases are just as valid.
I have a true case to illustrate:

For example, if a remedy has helped all the cats in a cattery club (I
am thinking of a specific situation involving 165 catteries averaging
20 cats in Cape Town, so that's a sample size of 3300 cats) to either
cure or prevent a specific type of illness,
then I consider that essentially a "proved" remedy even though it is
not physically possible to prove a remedy conventionally in cats. For
me this is valid as it is rare for even a proving in people, to
involve as many as 3300 individuals. It is something that can be
accomplished in animals a lot more easily. It is thus a most
significant proving in my eyes - although it is proved in the
positive sense, in that it overcomes symptoms that are there in a case.
The remedy first introduced and "proved" this way was URI 30C, used
for either prevention or treatment of cat flu caused by ANY of the
common cat flu illnesses. It has been shown (in 3300 cats) to
overcome symptoms found in all the cases of the following (Which are
quite similar but not identical):
1* Feline Infectious Enteritis (aka Panleukopenia)
2* Herpes virus (aka Rhinotracheitis)
3* Calici virus
4* Chlamydia bacgteria
5* Plane Flu virus
(but NOT 6* Bordetella Bronchiseptica)

The remedy in use here is one I call URI 30C. It was made in Cape
Town by A White Pharmacy at the request of myself and the late Rusty
Human (a persian breeder with a great desire to improve health of the
breed), from a vaccine against the first 4 listed illnesses.
At the time (1996), there was a Smith-Kline 4-in-1 vaccine in common
use by vets which was causing the illnesses it was supposed to
prevent. Kittens were dying or losing eyes and becoming chronically
ill after antibiotic suppression, and adult cats were passing it to
all the kittens, and there was no healthy cattery free of this scourge.

Initially only a few catteries used it - but as soon as the
marvellous results started to pour in, the rest all jumped on board
with alacrity. Seeing is believing. Rusty had the biggest cattery in
the area, and Vicky Spacey also a very large one (Maine Coons), both
winners of annual cattery awards, and well respected in the cat
community for their cat health work in general - Even the Devon Rex
breed (which seldom was ever free of Chlamydia - with owner Edith I
forget her last name) came to shows with all clear eyes and expounded
on the virtues of using this remedy as prevention, also as vaccine
protection and as treatment, all of which has continued to this day
to be effective.

[By the way, for others reading this who may wonder - I do not care
if this is called Hahnemannian by some or not. It is proven remedy
success by cases and the remedy is used because of 3300 initial cases
and uncountable ones since then.]

It may also be worth noting that Plane Flu has hopefully been
eradicated. I have not seen it since that particular outbreak.
A lot of research was done with the cats who had it including mine at
the time, through my vet who took the deep-tracheal samples and did
the local diagnostics and supportive help (oxygen tents etc) and
through Onderstepoort Veterinary University in SA, who investigated
and identified this new virus dubbed Plane Flu as it arrived
initially through Amsterdam international airport holding facility
for animals awaiting a plane change on international flights - and
was quickly spread world-wide among import/export cats, who arrived
healthy looking but died 3 months later of lung failure AFTER
infecting the rest of the cattery. There was GREAT collaboration and
response by Amsterdam officials, who immediately took all the advice
from Onderstepoort to keep this from spreading. The fact that I've
never seen it since is good evidence of that.

I think it is an example which is quite a testament to what can be
done to overcome huge numbers of sickness cases, with some
collaboration of people who love their pets.
I guess it is a matter of opinion as to what is a proven symptom. I
would see 3300 cases cured by a remedy as valid rubrics, whether
called a proving or a case proof.
I interrupted your thought on poisoning symptoms and whether i have
used them. I have indeed used a potentised substance to undo a
poisoning by that substance, but that is detox, a sometimes necessary
accessory skill but it is not strictly homeopathy.
It is an adjunct to it.
In my sickness cases I have only used remedies clearly shown to be a
match on rubrics I trust.
That part is homeopathy and is at the core of my work.
I consider any other things I do to be appropriate according to the
principle of removing maintaining causes, and the principle of
appropriate environment for healing (including nutrition and any
other appropriate support) - these being principles compatible with
homeopathy (as indeed they are specified in the Organon.)
I do not know of a Simillimum I have used that could be considered
unproven, besides the kind of example above and which applies to a
handful of prophylaxis remedies in my experience, only one of which
(URI 30C) I personally arranged to have made, and only two of which
have proven efficacy in large numbers of individuals during illness.
Perhaps the least well known remedies I have used once in a while are
contained in O A Julian repertory which does list provings for them.
I did not know that. I am happy that case history is more than enough
to convince me of efficacy and suitability for homeopathic use based
on symptom matching. to me those remedies aqre 'PROVEN" even if every
rubric did not come from a "proving" exercise on people.

Provings are inherently a bad idea *compared* with case results,
because unlike homeopathy, a specific proving symptom MAY in some
cases depend on the individual metabolism and chemistry of the
species to show up - and also may depend on the constitutional type
of the individual doing the proving. So there are sure to be mised
symptoms and maybe some that work only for people due to their
susceptibility in that area.
Homeopathy is above that. IF it works for say a bruise in
people, then we can KNOW it will work for a bruise in a cat, llama,
lizard, plant or bee. ONLY case history can tell us for SURE what a
remedy can be used for in ALL species - not a proving. A proving
tells us SOME of what it can be used for in PEOPLE, but not
necessarily whether it works in a species besides human in the same
situation (due to different body chemistry) . Case history on the
other hand can be relied upon for ANY species, as a homeopathic
RESULT is *energy-related* without chemistry being needed to induce a
physical; (chemical) change for the worse, it instead annihilates an
existing problem issue and thus the now-known effect is independent
of metabolism or structure of the species.
So basically I'll take a case result over a proving result any day!
Now I guess I really put the cat among the pigeons - but I challenge
anyone to show otherwise.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I DO IN EVEY FIP CASE.
NEVER happened.
Joy stop inventing. Sharon please ALSO hear too that I did not use
some new idea of a remedy in FIP, it needs standard repping Hahnemann
approach.
Typical remedies I used in FIP, include China, Kali-c, Plb, Cicuta,
Agar, etc.....the list is VERY long
There is nothing new or weird about it.
That is at the core of every FIP case, all 500 or so, no exceptions.

HOW I found the right remedy is a little unconventional; and I do not
apologize for that - the pre-empting of symptoms.

While I greatly appreciate the principles you have nicely and
correctly defended (many thanks) - those of using what works,
whatever it is - I do not happen to see any way that a completely
unknown remedy can help FIP cases.
I specifically disagree that it would even be possible, if anything
the FIp cases have shown me how important it is to do the symptoms
matching and remedy selection very well. I often spend 8 hrs on it
for one case, as you get one try, no re-tries in FIP. It has to be
right first time, and I have many times worked through the night on
it because of urgency.
To call that dedicated work the use of an unknown remedy is not
correct or fair compared with what I really do to recover a caty's
health from FIP:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Let me try to clear this ambiguity please;

I DO do what Joy asks here, and it DOES lead to a normal
repertorizing of a well used remedy in the repertory, like China,
Kali-c, Plb, Agar, to name a few. .... BUT I use symptoms that are
present AND symptoms that are yet to show up in the specific
individual case, when planning the rubrics to use for finding the
remedy. The complexity of a FIP case is such that i spend about 8
hrs selecting the best remedy at the start of a case, (something Joy
refers to as "cant be bothered to select a remedy") and about 100
emails or more are usual in a FIP case, to resolve it. That is why I
have never accepted more than two cases a week, and wish more people
would work with it. It is jolly hard work, and very emotional being
in emergency mode so long, with a precious life in the balance.
Call my pre-empting of symptoms whatever you like but the rest of the
remedy selection in FIP is core homeopathy.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

I agree, but so far it has not come to that:-)

Hugs,

Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Sorry Irene, I did say I knew that that my memory of the particulars
was imperfect.
I should have just stayed out unless / until had a chance to
re-read--or use a hypothetical illustration instead.
I think that was Joy's description, not mine! I said *perhaps* an FIP
nosode was involved, that's all I said about any remedy. Anyway, glad
you're back to explain yourself
Shannon