Horrible music

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Shannon Nelson
Posts: 8848
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: Horrible music

Post by Shannon Nelson »

Hi Luise,
Yes.
Or sudden intensification of it?
For the past year he's been on a rather outlandish growth spurt. In
that year has gone from pretty much 50th percentile (maybe a bit more
for height) to something like 90th--suddenly the second tallest kid in
his class. It's stressed him physiologically; gone thru a really
"nice," intense calc-p (could not think or do math to save his life,
plus a charming "attitude", those are the main things I recall--calc-p
high made a dramatic and lasting difference, tho haven't ruled out
giving it again). He's sleeping a phenomenal amount, and pretty much
hiding out. No energy for anything "extra", including that my formerly
very social boy now has very little interest in *anything* that would
take him out of his room or away from the house--weird! (That doesn't
seem like Tub, does it...)

Tub does fit the suddenness of the growth spurt, which I have assumed
to be related to the suddenness in his change in musical taste, but I
could be wrong.

What's your thought about it?
Certainly other factors also influence musical choice!! Association,
familiarity, etc., sure. Which is why I made of point of saying I did
NOT see any of that to explain his sudden change. Which is why I've
seen it as very much a reflector of his inner state.

And I am specifically speaking about pathological states.
To my mind, a preference for music with themes of killing, suicide,
hopelessness, hatred and despair is, sorry, reflective of a
pathological state. Pardon my judgment! :-)
Agreed. That's in the definition.
I agree that it need not *necessarily* be. I suppose, in theory, one
could become so accustomed to lyrics about murder, mutilation, etc.,
that one finds it "interesting" or "amusing", or simply tunes out the
lyrics. I'm not sure I can imagine a situation, tho, where *liking* to
have one's head filled with those images is really compatible with good
mental health. Maybe I'm mistaken... But again, none of that applies
to my son's situation. He IS in a "pathological" M/E state: not
horribly pathological, I'm not saying there's anything dreadful or even
unusual going on, but I AM saying that there *is* inner unease, showing
up in many ways, and that is the only potential explanation I see for
the sudden taste in music, and as such I am assuming that the music is
mirroring etc.

His taste is specific. He doesn't, for instance, like rap--which can
be just as intense, intrusive, etc.--and he's not into the ones about
"knockin' my lady around, feels so good to see her cry", etc.; that is
not his pathology, and that is not the music he chooses.

Wide range of possibilities.
Most music IMO would qualify.

Might or might not be relevant, but there are numerous studies showing
the different kinds of music (I think it was specifically different
patterns of rhythm and possibly melody?) have distinct physiological
effects, and that some rhythms have disturbing (in the sense of
changing them from optimal) physiological effects, whereas others have
optimizing effects; not only on human volunteers, but even on animals
and plants.

Not every liking for "disturbing" influences is necessarily a sign of
something, I'd think, and yet at some point doesn't it become so? At
some point you have to wonder what is being suppressed, or avoided, or
compensated--at least that is the way my thoughts run, if I see a habit
of self-damaging behavior. I think in part it's a matter of degree,
and in part a matter of context. In my son's case both "degree" and
"context" seem, IMO, to support the idea that his current musical
choices are not just a la-de-dah isn't music great meaningless
coincidence.
For a start, something that doesn't involve repeated themes of death,
revenge, suicide, supernatural threats, etc. Does the music you've
become fond of lean heavily on those themes, by any chance? If so, do
you actually enjoy the messages, or do you just let them slide by?

Best wishes,
Shannon


Luise Kunkle
Posts: 1180
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:00 pm

Re: Horrible music

Post by Luise Kunkle »

Hi Shannon,

let me take up the music thing first.

We are talking about two different things - and IMO you are mixing
oranges and apples.

The **lyrics** of "music" are one thing - and there I definitely agree
with what you have said. They are whatever they are with or without
music.

I have been talking about the music itself. I have never paid much
attention to the lyrics. As to the heavy metal stuff I was talking
about - I don't even know whether there were any lyrics at all:-)

Anyhow, and somewhat OT: except for a few percent of remarkable
exceptions, the lyrics of even the most famous music, whether modern,
classical or whatever are comparatively trash/meaningless/inane/....

So IMO one should differentiate!
Have you ruled out "unrequited love"?

Here a bit from one of our most poems: "The Song of the Bell": Among
other things this is a desription of life from birth to death. And the
part below is what love may do to a young man. In the poem it is not
unrequited love - but we all probably know what this can do to us!
*********
And glorious, in youthful splendor,
Like creature from the heav'nly land,
With cheek so modest, shy and tender
Sees he the maid before him stand.
Then seized by nameless longing, aching,
The young lad's heart, alone he leaves,
From out his eyes the tears are breaking,
His brothers' ranks so wild he flees.
***********
(translation NOT by me:-)

On the other hand: it is probably quite physiological that such a
growth spurt will drain a person of all his energy and this in turn
would lead to most of his symptoms.

But there is where the morbid fascination by the **lyrics** of the
music gains status as a symptom, IMO. This might be explained by the
love bit.

Strangely enough, for the last many decades the topic: "love" "sex"
"romance" has been flogged to death. But in order to find out what it
can do to a person one either has to remember (where applicable) or
has to turn to the older literature. This kind of love is, of course,
strongly tied to sexuality - the hormones as we sort of
euphemistically tend to "circumscribe" it - in any person. If it
happens to hit right in that turmoil of puberty, where the personality
is at its most unstable, it can ravage even more.

It is very unlikely that your son would tell you about it - other than
the presumed daughter in Kent's MM of Ignatia:

*************
Another place where Ignatia and Natrum mur. run close together. A
sensitive, overtired girl, after she has been working in music, and in
art, and in school, and has tired herself out, is unable to control
her affections. Her affections rest on some one whom she would
despise. That may be a singular thing, one may not be able to
understand it.

A sensitive girl, though she would not let anyone but her mother know
of it, falls in love with a married man. She lies awake nights, sobs.
She says,

"Mother, why do I do that, I cannot keep that man out of my mind."

At other times a man entirely out of her station, that she is too
sensible to have anything to do with, she just thinks about him.
Ignatia, if it is very recent, will balance up that girl's, mind. If
not, Natrum mur. comes in as a follower.

******************

There may, of course, have been some other kind of shock. All at once
he has got to know that he is mortal. That terrible things happen in
this world. People, animals dying/suffering. Things he never realized
before.This could also be a cause of his mind dwelling on the dark
side, on death, suffering.

I would think along these lines - not on the lines of miasms.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========


Shannon Nelson
Posts: 8848
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: Horrible music

Post by Shannon Nelson »

Hi Luise,
Sorry, I should have been more clear.
When I talk about his music choices, I mean the particular songs, in
their entirety, music and lyrics together. As it happens I find *both*
aspects difficult to take, but would be much less so if the lyrics were
different.

Certainly not all, but yes, I'd agree that applies to most.
So inane lyrics would not be troubling me nearly as much!
The same music with inane lyrics would still be troubling me, but less;
and I still think that choices in *both* are possibly significant, but
I agree that the consideration of the two together, is more significant
than if it were the music alone.

Best,
Shannon


Caro
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:00 pm

Re: Horrible music

Post by Caro »

Oooh hi! I'm sorry it's taken me so long to reply; I'm in the middle of the Colombian mountains and got a horrible tropical virus that needed Bryonia which I don't have! Bleah!!! All partial remedies have kept me hanging but I'm really sick! I will send you a thorough e-mail! Heehee, yes, I know his bands, you poor thing having to listen to that XD! Anyway, I promise I'll get on to explain everything I've seen/proved in a couple of days :)
Love,
Caro.


Shannon Nelson
Posts: 8848
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:00 pm

Re: Horrible music

Post by Shannon Nelson »

Thank you, Caro--and the sympathy much appreciated, LOL!
I do hope you feel better *fast*!!! And I do so look forward to your
further report....!
:-)


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