Possible homeopathy for aminopterin rat poison in pet food

[Jean Doherty]

The importance of pre-accidental symptoms in life-threatening situations
by Maartje Kuiper January2006
maybe bring up http://www.interhomeopathy.org/index.ph ... l/cat/C25/ and do a search for Hydrocyanic Ac that is how I got several other articles
or http://www.interhomeopathy.org/ then search It was just something remembered and wanted to look at again, Jean

[Irene de Villiers]

hahnemannian2002 wrote:

Hi,
I am not unwilling to consider Ter - and I did so in depth when it
was suggested here. But I am not seeing it. Can you list the rubrics you
used to arrive at it please?

You did mention Acute parenchymatous nephritis - but we are not seeing
that here.
and you also mentioned acute congestion - but we are not seeing that
here either.

My view is that we need to repertorize what IS there - not look for
things that sound like they might be in the ballpark. It's not just any
kidney rubric that fits here. The syndrome is very specific.
But LAch has:
KIDNEYS - PAIN - extending to - Bladder - stitching pain
which fits best of all. Also:
GENERALS - PAIN - corrosive
GENERALS - VIOLENT COMPLAINTS
GENERALS - AGRANULOCYTOSIS
which fit.
We have no pyelitis here:-)
We need to repertorize using what we DO have in the case - rather than
what we know the remedy has:-)
Urine is not suppressed in this poisoning so we wouild not need that rubric.
Synthesis in Radar 9.
The nice thing about Radar (to me) is that you can repertorize each of
several ways and compare results so as not to leave out anything by
mistake. I did that - and used a repping with and without elimination on
acute kidney failure. Ter does not cover it, either in its allopathic
poisoning description or its rubric listing. As to matching the case, it
is at best 80th on the eleven actual essential case rubrics. That's way
too low down for a remedy with over a thousand rubrics to be a top pick.
Adding a not so specific kidney rubric would not change that
significantly even if I felt it justified.

This HAS to go by the symptoms of the case and not guesswork on what
remedy might match the case - that in my view is backwards, and leads
one astray badly.
We really need to start with the righ rubrics - and take what that
gives us - not the other way round:-)

I also use mentals *always* to confirm my remedy. These are not so
difficult in animals as most non-vethoms assume. It takes a little
practise but is soon very evident.
I am MOST impressed by the increasing number of reports of dogs and cats
refusing the tainted food, and the owner wondering why (before knowing
it was poisoned). This to me confirms Lach quite strongly:
MIND - ANGUISH - pain; from - Abdomen; in
MIND - CONFUSION of mind - intoxicated - as if
MIND - DELUSIONS - poisoned - he - about to be poisoned; he is
MIND - DELUSIONS - poisoned - he - has been
MIND - DELUSIONS - poisoned - medicine; being poisoned by
MIND - EATING - refuses to eat
MIND - FEAR - drinking; of - thirst; with
MIND - FEAR - eating; after
MIND - PROSTRATION of mind - eating, after
MIND - REFUSING - medicine; to take the
MIND - REFUSING - treatment; every

These are all to me Lach confirming rubrics here. A generality is
possibly relevant too:
Lach is motion.
If anything there is increased urination.
Lach and Ter both have that rubric and also the sediment in urine (from
crystals);
Lach also has:
ABDOMEN - COMPLAINTS of abdomen - accompanied by - urination, copious.

Thank you for the discussion.

I hope to see some recovered cases now rather than more poisonings.

NAmaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Irene de Villiers]

Jean Doherty wrote:

Seems I missed something - why would this acid be relevant please?

NAmaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Jean Doherty]

There were articles in ih COORDabout the use if this remedy in life threatening situations and I located them out of interest.as thought might be relevant to discussion on FIP and perhaps this poisoning. However I think you are the expert here and I appreciate you sharing so much with us, Kindest Regards Jean

[muthu kumar]

> You did mention Acute parenchymatous nephritis - but we are not
seeing
that

In general nephrotoxins would cause acute tubular necrosis (ATN)
and this would lead to renal parenchymal disease. And that would be
seen in this case too.

ARF involves decreased Glom. filtration rate and this would cause
congestion and so I thought that would be relevant here as well.

Is there any clear cut idea of what causes acute renal failure in
aminopterin poisoning?
Pre renal causes or renal causes? I would think a combination of
both.

Where and what is the pathology in ARF due to aminopterin? Probably
that is what needs to be addressed.

for

Most of the pathological symptoms that appear in our rubrics are
only ball park. it is in the nature of our provings. Sensations and
modalities are precise but pathology is only assumed when we
prescribe.

It's not just any

You may be right here -as I said I have not treated any of these.
(radiating)
I know we may not have pyelitis here but I am just pointing out
that Ter is capable of addressing ARF since it deals with some of
the causes of ARF.
than

Come on Irene - you do not think I need to be taught that!!!
under
that rubric.

Really- is this acute renal failure different? Is it a non-oliguric
renal failure? I do not know about pets- in general ARF is
associated with decreased urine-not always I agree- so I thought
that there would be decreased urine.

Why does urine increase?
each of
by
elimination on
allopathic

That might be true.
As to matching the case, it

Perhaps in that case - yes.
what
leads

I agree- and I have successfully prescribed using pathological
presentations before. We are guessing here - proof of the
repertorial pudding is only in the eating...
that

Yes - and I see that there were questions about the rightness of the
rubrics. At the same time you are the one who has actually seen
these cases and so yours would be final word
knowing
That is a lot of mind rubrics for just refusing to eat The pets
would have been suffering long before poisoning information got out.
Already physically they were affected internally before overt
bleeding occurs...
Why is this so? Is not Acute renal failure associated with decreased
urine in general? Why is it increasing?

(from
copious.
Why should we take complaints of abdomen- why not just urine copious-
the rubric you are pointing to seems like increased urination with
colitis for example.

In Knerr in Urine increased ( copious,profuse, polyuria), - there is
no Lachesis but THERE IS Terebinth,

both in the general rubric and in subrubric -
in typhus fever; also in rubric -
quantity 30 - 35 ounces in 24 hours ( Bright's disease);
That would be good...Best wishes...

[Irene de Villiers]

Jean Doherty wrote:

Hi Jean - It is a good remedy to know about - thanks for the link.
I doubt it would be useful in this poisoning as it is a remedy
"affecting the oxygenation of the cells, thus producing cyanosis", so
not a match (nor for FIP I don't think.)
However I can imagine other severe illnesses where the description could
fit. I did not know the remedy till you pointed it out.

Namaste,
IRene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Rosemary C Hyde PhD]

Um ... Irene, just out of curiosity, how do you know, in a cat, that it has
"stitching pain extending from kidney to bladder"? I'd really like to know,
because I usually figure with people/ creatures who can't verbally or
gesturally explain to me the quality and extension of pains, I can't use
rubrics of this nature, and must restrict my analysis to what can be
observed.

Also, is it possible that the animals that refused the food could perceive
that something didn't smell right about it? I wouldn't consider that a
pathological symptom.

Rosemary

[Irene de Villiers]

Rosemary C Hyde PhD wrote:

Hi Rosemary, we can't know exactly what kind of pain the animal has, but
their response to touching the kidney or bladder area would be
consistent with this rubric.
It's not a rubric I used in repertorizing (If you check my emails) - I
only use the known ones there - but it's one I mentioned as being
present in Lach.

It often helps me when I choose a remedy - to see what other rubrics it
has that may indicate the area of action of the remedy. This rubric is
what one would *expect* from crystals there.
As I did:-))
Perhaps you misread my email?
I would. It is "fear of being poisoned", and in my view that is a very
valid rubric symptom.
We do not just use pathological symptoms when repertorizing - but mind
symptoms, and other key characteristics. Modalities fro example are not
pathologies but are certainly valid characteristics of a situation.
When I put together the large number of dogs who smell the toxin and
do not eat - with the ones who did eat and THEN realize eating was a
no-no, it still points to fear of being poisoned.

However as with the Lach rubric mentioned - these are for me
corroborating points to suggest the remedy I already repertorized is
consistent in its action with the case at hand.
We also know from cancer use that this drug causes the symptom of
feeling poisoned.

But none of that was in the repping I did to choose LAch - just in my
feeling that the remedy is not an off base selection:-)

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."