Minutus

Fran Sheffield wrote:

Dear Fran,
I suspect that is a statement which may be really hard to back up?

Immunity is a state of disease resistance - and it is caused
physiologically by changes in the immune system as regards cytokine
balance.
It's my contention that those individuals who have genuine disease
resistance will have a balanced cytokine picture, and not the skewed
picture seen in any disease state - and also seen in the vaccinated state.

As research shows, vaccination causes a Th-2 skewed immune system.
However research also shows that natural immunity acquired through
disease, does NOT skew the immune system. On the contrary, such natural
immunity if anything increases TH-1 cytokine activity and balances the
immune system where vaccines do the opposite.

So these are two completely separate states of being
* one that is balanced and healthy and resistant to both acute and
chronic disease (due to the balanced immune system) and
* another that is a Th-2 skewed (hence damaged) immune system condition
and which is purported to provide immunity to acute disease (and in
which the skewed state predisposes chronic disease).

To get back to your first assertion - I DO think that natural disease
can sometimes confer immunity - but only if the immune system is left in
a healthy balanced condition - and sadly that is not always the case.
For example I had whooping cough at age 18 months - was vaccinated - and
then had it again at 4 years. Where was my lifetime immunity?
The point is that having a natural disease does NOT always confer
immunity much less lifetime immunity.

I also do not think even the healthiest person is impervious to the
onslaught of toxins. The system may well fight them off - but it may
also be left damaged in the attempt, depending on the perfection of raw
materials (nutrients etc) available.
This may leave the immune system cytokines unbalanced and even though no
disease might be evident at the time an immune system becomes imbalanced
- it is damaged in a way that predisposes it and makes it susceptible to
disease.

So I think we ar back to Hahnemann's definition of health, in that we
need o be *resistant* to disease. I think "immune" (to what?) or
"lifetime immunity" is not a realistic goal, but a balanced immune
system that is resistant - IS a realistic goal.

I also think it is easier to achieve a balanced and resistant immune
system by homeopathy than by natural disease - either with
homeoprophylaxis which is the easiest approach - or by homeopathic
treatment when illness is present.

I use homeoprophylaxis a lot in my practice as I work mainly in
veterinary homeopathy, and it would be irresponsible not to advise
homeoprophylaxis in many situations. For example feline panleukopenia
tends to kill a cat 24 hrs or less after it is diagnosed. I started
using homeoprophylaxis on a regular basis for cats in 1984, using a
protocol I received independently from a South African and an Irish
veterinary homeopath. I don't know the origin of the protocol but both
said it had been used "for ages", effectively. Well I can add at least
another "age".

As another example, Bordetella bronchiseptica (kennel cough in dogs) is
a deadly silent pneumonia in cats and kittens with a predicted death
rate of 100% for kittens under 6 months, and 50% if over 6 months.
Yet the Bordetella bronchiseptica 30C remedy in aqueous use - can be
given at birth to kittens born to an actively ill mother cat, and the
kittens may then safely be left to nurse with the mother and they will
remain healthy. Without the remedy, the entire litter dies in couple of
days. (It was the only time I ever lost an entire litter of kittens, and
I've bred cats since age 7.)

Aconitum napellus 200c is also a god prophylactic remedy in seevral
situations:
Handraised kittens invariably develop infections as they have no
immunity passed from the mother. But not if you add a little Aco 200C to
the formula to "nip infection in the bud" till they can develop some
resistance.
Likewise Aco 200 will protect cats going to a vet clinic or cat show or
travelling by plane etc.
Pyrogenium 200C will prevent pyometra in pregnant or in-season or
post-partum animals, especially cats and dogs as their large litter size
predisposes exposure to infection. (This remedy also will restore
health if a pyometra occurs.)

So it is not only vaccine remedies that can be used in homeoprophylaxis
- ANY remedy can be prophylactic in the right circumstances and so as
homeopaths we have a far more powerful set of options with which to
assist clients in preventing suffering and maintaining health than any
allopathic approach claims to have.

It's a matter of assessing risk and using homeoprophylaxis where the
risk of not using it is unacceptable.

Since using homeoprophylaxis in general for illnesses that are speedy
and life threatening (panleuk, parvo. distemper, cat flu etc) starting
1984, only one kitten has died of panleukopenia and was not protected by
the protocol. I'm not sure how many cats/kittens have used the protocol
I have suggested with success - several hundred at last. This single
death happened last year with the new strain of panleuk that mutated
from dogs back to cats (it's a parvo virus that originated in cats -
mutated to dogs and now has mutated back to cats). (Vaccinated cats were
dying in droves with that strain.) Only one protected by
homeoprophylaxis died. I've since beefed up the protocol to hopefully
give more complete cover for the new strain.

I predict that homeoprophylaxis might have to reach a point at which we
do see proving symptoms during the prevention protocol, simply because
the strength of the natural diseases is increasing due to allopathic
drug use. Up to now, protocols always stopped short of any proving
symptoms and indeed I do not see them in the protocol I use. It is
different from Golden's and involves multiple aqueous doses of 30C
remedy in decreasing time intervals.
In my opinion this happens because by the time we are adults, we have
messed up our immune system pretty thoroughly, and it is far from
balanced in cytokine ratios.
Why?
Why not use homeoprophylaxis rather than natural disease?

I can understand not bothering with prophylaxis for a common cold - but
measles, diptheria, whooping cough and polio are not mild, and there is
an awful tendency for adults to CONSIDER the disease mild when a child
has it, but the child might not agree!
I'm 58 and still remember vividly how I suffered at age 4 from the likes
of so-called mild childhood diseases. Kids have less options to complain
than adults, as they are basically sick and helpless. Are we so sure the
disease is really milder and it's not just convenient to suggest that?

I'm all for building disease resistance - and using homeoprophylaxis to
do so wherever there is significant risk without it.
After all the worst it can do is to build health:-) Natural disease
does not always do that; it can leave nasty damage in some cases!

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

Dear Fran

Have you read VACCINATION - A SHOT IN THE DARK by Harris Coulter?

Rgds
Soroush

On Mon, 11 Mar 2007, Fran Sheffield wrote:

Well, perhaps (only perhaps, since measle e.g. can be very severe).

But I was actually thinking of homeoprophylaxis for travelling. The
diseases one would "homeo-vaccinate" against are not as a rule mild
ones.

And what you very correctly say above about contacting e.g. measles as
an adult would pose the question whether it might not be very
reasonable to homeo-vaccinate adults against measles, since:

1.
with the great majority of children being vaccinated against
measles, the "chance" that the kids would get the disease during
childhood are small anyway - thus most adults would not have had them.

2.
Most people who were vaccinated in childhood do not bother to keep up
with booster shots (at least here). So the probability that they get
the disease as adults is quite high.

3.
Considering that for many people, adults and children, neither mother
nor grandmother may have had those childhood diseases, the natural
specific immunity may approach that of e.g. the American Indians who
died like flies from measles. Thus epidemics may turn out to be very
severe indeed at present and in the future for those whoo are not
vaccinated or have not kept up their booster shots.

(Sheri - I do know your opinion:-)

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Thanks Irene - I fully agree.

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

>

You may know my opinion, but I have to speak out.
People still get measles and it is no more severe than it ever was.

And vaccines do NOT give immunity, only inject a chronic case of illness
which is stronger and therefore cannot get an acute case. Once an acute
case comes along that is stronger, then you will see them show symptoms of
measles, for example. They have to boost that chronic illness that is
injected to keep it stronger.

Sheir
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
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Thanks to everyone who commented concerning the issue of my my niece's
newborn getting the Hep B vaccination.
Since, i introduced myself as a Midwife the question did follow - where
was I as her advocate.
A good question - I am a Home Birth Midwife, my niece was not a good
candidate for out of hospital birth.
I attended my niece all day at home, consulting with her hospital care
provider all day - when we reached 5 cm we went to the hospital.
Shortly thereafter I was paged to go to the Amish community so I had to
leave to go deliver another baby.

Prenatally, my niece and I wrote a birth plan, included in that were
request for the newborn management - rooming in - no Vit K-
breastfeeding - no Hep B - this information was in her chart . We had
the conversation! Her mother, who did not vaccinate any of her children
and birthed at home was with her at the hospital !
I feel terrible about the oversight - but amazed that they agreed to the
shot! Like I said - during a contraction the nurse - said bla bla bla
sign here - this is all standard contracts ...bla bla . They signed!
I know they thought I would be there to answer questions, but I had
attempted to prepare them just in case I was not there!

When I arrived and asked where is the baby and you DID tell them no Hep
B. They all went white and
said you know I think we did sign that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks again -
In my defense!
Gail Brown
Certified Professional Midwife