Minutus

>Since an artificial disease can be produced on healthy bodies with the

Sorry but because one is true does not mean the other is.
It has been proven that an artificial disease can be produce by a remedy
that does not mean that bacteria can also cause disease
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
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http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
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But it's exogenous.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Shannon and Hahnemannian,

in this instance I have to support Sheri.

IMO Hahnemann did mean a *dynamic* influence by the "morbific agent".
(Which means I do not think that Hahnemann had identified
microorganisms as pathogenic)

And the "morbific agent" in a proving with (high) potencies would also
by definition be a dynamic influences.

It is obvious that dynamic influences can cause disease. It is so e.g.
in a sunburn, in burns from heat, xray etc.

After all, Hahnemann's dynamis is what to-day we call forces (he used
the example of magnetism and gravity for his definitiion of dynamis).
It is well possible - at least it is a useful model IMO - to consider
that the pathogens such as bacteria and viruses carry with them a
dynamic force which can disturb the dynamic life-force.

This model would be much more reasonable inside homeopathy than to
incorporate into homeopathy the idea that they do not exist resp.
that they are not potentially pathogenic.

The fact that some are pathogenic by excreting poisons, which are then
in a chemical way harmful, is only superficially a contradiction.
Actually, also chemistry acts dynamically - forces inside and between
the molecules change around. And anyway - here is no basic difference
between forces and matter - matter, as we now know, is a specific
arrangement of forces, nothing else.

So actually the people who deny microbes as pathogens are much more
materialistic than at least the physicists and chemists (the allopaths
as a rule also have not yet caught up to modernphysics and
chemistry;-)

Regards

Luise
--
One thought to all who, free of doubt,
So definitely know what's true:
2 and 2 is 22 -
and 2 times 2 is 2:-)
==========> ICQ yinyang 96391801 <==========

Sheri-
Logical argument does not convince you, common sense arguments do
not, obviously years of scientific research do not count-

It is noteworthy that lot of biological research is not necessarily
done by allopathic physicians... so we need not always be worried
about the allopathic "taint"- these are people with doctorates in
biology and microbiology...

Well whatever - as long as the selected remedy works and you and
your patients are happy-

But at the same time it might be better for homeopathy as a whole if
there is less aggression in denouncing everything that is from
allopathy- the allopathy during Hahnemann's time was a totally
different beast compared to the one now.... the olden day one was
more based on beliefs and ancient theories of humors etc. etc.... (
hence Hahnemann's admonition of empty theorizing)- whereas modern
allopathy is more on experimentation and research and repeatability
etc.

I just wish that as homeopaths we could use the same basic sciences
as allopathists except that our therapeutic approach will be
different- we will be more inclusive instead of being exclusive and
selective as allopathic therapeutics ( where antibiotic sensitivity
is measured in vitro...)I think where they are erring is in the
management part - not in getting the physics of the diseases worked
out- they are not going far enough where they ought to - that is
all...of course since they are the major power they tend to dictate
things ( the kind of politics that occurs even in our lists- where
we have found mob politics operative)
-- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Sheri Nakken
wrote:
with the
the
Hahnemann
just by
remedy
-

>

I disagree
It is still based on beliefs and ancient theories
Same empty theorizing
You give them too much credit
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath
Well Within & Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours (worldwide)
Vaccination Information & Choice Network
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm
homeopathycures@tesco.net
ONLINE Introduction to Homeopathy Classes
ONLINE Introduction to Vaccine Dangers Classes
Voicemail US 530-740-0561 UK phone from US 011-44-1874-624-936

hear hear:

Now I DO see the advantage is spreading understanding of "the terrain";
I just don't see the advantage (and see possibility of great harm) in
negating that other half of the story.
Shannon

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need
to support sheri's comment here. allopathic thinking has always been based
on a control-and-conquer type mentality with an effort to compartmentalize
and isolate in order to gain control. it hasnt changed in 500 yrs give or
take a few)
since the church laid claim to all healing in europe. this is the thinking
in allopathy
and other areas of concern; ie environmental issues.

tanya

Hm, now *somewhere* he *does* talk about "excessively small"
something-or-other as a disease carrier... Can't someone remember the
reference? I'm sure I didn't dream it...
Shannon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Luise-
I never said that Hahnemann meant bacteria or viruses when he talked
about morbific agents. In fact I do not care if Hahnemann knew about
bacteria or not... that is besides the point... we are trying to posit
homeopathy in a context where allopathy is not the same beast that
Hahnemann dealt with. It has become worse in some ways and it has
become better in some ways. Having good scientific research and
following peer-reviewed protocols and double blinds etc. has improved
its approach and also made it much more reliable in terms of being
able to prove what is stated.

In some ways Homeopathy has retrograded even further than what our
founding fathers practised.

I am not sure I agree with the notion that the bacteria are just
dynamic in nature... still who knows... since vital force can be
influenced by a hit on the head ( what is just dynamic about this?)or
by burns to the body - I would rather say that all of these are
"influences" on the vital force - physical, chemical, ephemereal or
whatever...
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Luise Kunkle wrote:
that can
incline it
morbid
to the
shock or
Homoeopathy and educational benefit of its members. It makes no
representations regarding the individual suitability of the
information contained in any document read or advice or recommendation
offered which appears on this website and/or email postings for any
purpose. The entire risk arising out of their use remains with the
recipient. In no event shall the minutus site or its individual
members be liable for any direct, consequential, incidental, special,
punitive or other damages whatsoever and howsoever caused.
change your setting at http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/minutus to
receive a single daily digest.