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Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:56 pm
by Joy Lucas
cure, amelioration, hope, harmony, balance

every possibility

more homeopaths should charge less or do pro bono and if we improve our
skills according to the basics this should mean that less clients have
to be referred time and again

On the contrary, 'fringe' has cult status

too gooey for me and asking for problems not answers

crikey, I am not accusing just observing, people keep mentioning
failure - we have to know why failure seems to be happening to the
extent we think we need 'coherance imaging' - the quality control is
only required in our teaching and learning

edited, Joy
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Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:23 pm
by Soroush Ebrahimi
Dear Chris

The point I mentioned about Hn Proving, was mis-directed. Sorry.

If you look at Clarke's MM - they you see that for some remedies very few provers.
Also if you consider that Lil-t's famous symptoms were apparently experienced by only ONE prover!
We are lucky that it works - but not SCIENTIFIC and 100% reliable.

After all MM is the corner stone of Homoeopathy.

From aph 3:
"if he clearly perceives what is curative in medicines, that is to say, in each individual medicine (knowledge of medical powers)"

========

I do not know why you had a dig at Peter Chappell. What was the relevance to the current thread?
The test of the pudding is in the eating.
If you have a better/quicker way of dealing with the HIV/AIDs epidemic, please let us hear about it.
By accounts of members of this forum, his PC1 has shown to be effective.
Also see http://www.vitalremedies.com/faqs/index ... ult&cat=17 for reports from colleagues.

Rgds
Soroush

Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:43 pm
by Joy Lucas
And as far as I know it the sx we have of causticum come from
hahnneman''s wife. Why does only one prover's sx invalidate the sx?

Best wishes, Joy
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://homepage.mac.com/joylucas/
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Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:12 pm
by Soroush Ebrahimi
Did I say it invalidate?

I think it does not give us the full range/scope of the remedy.
So it can be missed in the process of finding the similimum because we have
a limited knowledge of WHAT IS CURATIVE in the remedy.
Rgds
Soroush

Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:12 pm
by Shannon Nelson
Hi Joy,

I most heartily and energetically agree with this!!!!
Actually one of my very favorite sort of cases to read, are "difficult"
ones, where initially wrong prescriptions were given (and am most
tantalized by those where the needed remedy *seemed* clear, yet failed
to act) but eventually a remedy (or series of remedies) was found that
set things right--WITH long-term follow-up to verify that they *stayed*
"right"!

This sort of explanation I think we need lots, lots, lots more of in
our literature. In fact :-) why doesn't somebody compile a book or
few of these? (And if there are some, I hope someone will mention them
for me!)

Because, I most *heartily* agree, there is *huge* learning to be had
there!
Again, I completely agree!
And in particular, I feel that our (as a community) emphasis on
long-term follow-up is far, far deficient. To me it is quite literally
meaningless to hear of a "brilliant cure" with only, say, a month or
two of follow-up; I have seen too many prescriptions that produced
brilliant initial results, which fizzled in anywhere from a few days to
a few weeks, and no further repetitions of that remedy, in any potency,
produced any response. We *need* follow-up!
Yes indeed.
As we've agreed, there are a number of possible reasons.
Joy, have you watched the Uncured Cases on Homeopathic Symposium, the
community input ones? I've watched only a couple, but they are quite
fascinating. I would love to hear your thoughts about that.
Well, in my daughter's case, she presented an absolutely classic lyssin
picture--wild, destructive rages (thank God she was only four!)
followed by quick and deep remorse; and a generally very Stramonium
picture, with night terrors, chronic fears of various specific sorts.
Stramonium gave only brief relief. She (from birth I mean, and not
lastingly relieved by Stram) became hysterical if water got on her head
(shower, or being caught in the rain!). From birth she refused to
drink water, any water at all.

Why wasn't the Lyssin picture seen? Because the picture of Lyssin had
not yet been put out into the homeopathic community. That was the
remedy she needed, and our prescriber did not yet know the remedy.

You seem to be someone "blaming" him for having not been able to work
around the absence of Lyssin. What do you propose he ought to have
done differently?

And if he *hadn't* gone to that conference, well... I shudder to
think...
Certainly. And what's your point...
In my daughter's case that was evidently done quite well.
All that was missing was the needed materia medica.

For Jeremy's patient (read his fascinating H'c Symposium presentation
on Germanium!!) who needed Germanium, evidently the same
situation--case was taken just fine, all that was needed was The
Remedy.
Mm, if I had the money, and the time to learn to use it, I would own it
in a flash! :-) And you can be sure I would tell you all--but would
desist fairly quickly once I got overly distressed by the "hate mail"
that would follow! (Sadly, I fear that is too true...)

So you figure Jeremy ought to skip his provings, and concentrate on
curing e.g. his Germanium patients with the "old" remedies? Joy, I
don't understand your position on this...
Then you mean something different from what I mean.
Those patients who fall "outside the familiar" as I am using the term,
are those who need a remedy *with which the prescriber is not
familiar*.

If the patient needs a remedy that is not yet proved, or not yet known
to the prescriber--well, in the latter case the prescriber can keep
reading, keep learning, keep attending seminars; he can *expand* the
range of his "familiar". But if the needed remedy has not yet been
proved, then no amount of reading and attending will solve the problem.

Can "zig-zagging" fill in some of the gap? Certainly!
Can it fill in *all* of the gaps? Well, I don't know. If Jeremy has
been sometimes unable to make zig-zags suit the need, then I feel a bit
discouraged about my own potential for "doing it all", for everyone,
with tools (remedies) already available.

I guess in the end it will come down to each of us making the choices
we see fit.
Cheers,
Shannon

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Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:29 pm
by Soroush Ebrahimi
I think we have all had such cases where one starts to pull one's hair out
in frustration.

But looking back - we need to decide whether the correct rubrics were
selected for repertorisation in order of priority.

Rgds
Soroush

Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:46 pm
by Shannon Nelson
And no doubt that is often the problem! In other cases we need to use
*fewer* but more central or characterizing rubrics, so that a tiny but
perfectly suited remedy isn't burned. And other times, such as the
cases I mentioned--my daughter when she needed Lyssin, and Jeremy
Sherr's Germanium case(s)--perhaps there are cases where you simply
need what you need, and if it's not in your repertory, what will you
do?

I'm certainly not trying to say that we can't do anything better...
But neither can I agree that we already have everything we need.
Best,
Shannon
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Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:12 pm
by muthu kumar
Chris-
This is the best post from you and I agree 100% to all you wrote.
people do not follow the existing, time-tested methods and follow all
that glitters as gold- and find a thousand excuses for doing so and
blaming everything else except their skill set for their
failures...there are instances where Homeopathy might fail but that
may be because it is not the realm of any medicinal therapeutic
modality and probably something else's- nutrition or psychotherapy for
example...
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Gillen" wrote:
principle*.
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Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:21 pm
by Joy Lucas
It's getting convoluted now with a lot of issues.

So, in brief - do you mean the team effort cases in the Homeopathic
Symposium?

What has the 'black box' got to do with unproven remedies - are you
saying it should be used even for unproven remedies, that's quite a
move away from any kind of homeopathy and where would that lead. If a
rx has been proved then it SHOULD BE/HAS TO BE familiar to the
homeopath - that is what the reps are for, pointing us in the right
direction.

Why do we keep mentioning Sherr?

The Lyssin data has been a round for donkeys years.

My point about remedies shouldn't be unfamiliar to us = we need to
study them more and more. I am unsure about needing an unlimited amount
of remedies, I have thought a lot about it and still can't be sure. We
have so many that cover every conceivable diseased state; we are
variations on a theme; every time a new rx is proved, lo and behold we
see a cured case attached to it, wonderful coincidence or what? I read
recently that dog poo has been proved and it got me thinking again
about this, interesting, and I would like to know what others think
about limitless remedies- homage here to Chris' great post on Puff the
Magic Dragon :-)

Best wishes, Joy

http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
http://homepage.mac.com/joylucas/
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Re: confirmatory technology

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:29 pm
by muthu kumar
Sure we can go on saying that for all our failures that the remedy has
not been proven yet...

In your specific case Lyssin has been in MM for a while and one need
attend a conference to understand it...

Let us imagine that Lyssin had never been proved and not available in
homoepathy... what do you think would happen? Your daughter would
never have been cured? I do not believe that... You still would have
had a cure but a zig zag path and not a straight path to the
simillimum...hitting the simillimum is just the shortest and the
sweetest path to cure not the only one...

I agree that we may not have everything we need - but we need to
follow some due process to add more things - the best way we could
serve our science is to aid reproving the remedies in a Hahnemannian
way so that current attitudes of provers can get into the Materia
medica and whatever "time corruption" has occurred can be taken care
of...
--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
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