Minutus

Thanks Ellen,
I'll have to see what I can work out re her constitutional... I
thought we had a good one with nat-m--well it *was* good, but not good
enough to keep going, I guess...

LM-1 is less gentle than 30c??? That is far different than what I have
thought I understood; I thought one could easily go from 6c to LM-1?
(With this person, I have used the two somewhat interchangeably; the LM
seems somewhat smoother and deeper, not even sure the LM has really
been gentler, but then she hasn't seemed oversensitive, just
"sensitive" to remedies...

Well, thanks for your input!
Shannon

Thanks Carol,
I quite agree that I/we can't afford to be "exclusive" about the
method, especially not in my position! She's also under the care of a
naturapath whom she likes very well, and has found very helpful. So
that end is being taken care of.
She's 50-ish, and has all sorts of hormonal issues (which I guess could
be either contributor to and/or result of the adrenal weakness), but I
don't know details.

Thinking back, tho, she has been adrenally and physiologically
challenged since well before I met her, at age 13! She said that in
retrospect it seems she may have been having "absence seizures" or
something similar from early childhood, tho her first epileptic-type
one happened I think in her 20s, with the second one not until quite a
few years later. Whatever to make of that...
Is there a way one (like me) can use information about deficient kidney
meridian other than by getting acupuncture treatment? (This would
apply also to another person I'm having difficulty with.)

I know she has been using progesterone cream for at least a few years,
and has found it very elpful. But I've never heard of "oral
micronized". What can you say about that?

She may well be cancer miasm (haven't specifically thought about that,
but it seems likely), but she sure is not a "mild, nice, kindly,
low-energy person"!!! Except for when she is very ill (and she has
mellowed with some emotional healing, too), she is passionate,
hot-tempered, extraordinarily expressive and self-assertive--*I* have
learned when and how to keep my distance from her temper! (Y'all know
how much *I* enjoy confrontations, hm? ) And I do think that
the adrenal exhaustion comes in part from the passionate and driven
nature, and the deeply wounded emotional level; together with I think
adrenal weakness passed on from her mother.
Yes, she's doing all of that!
I like that phrase!
Thanks again; good food for thought!
Shannon

Can you explain the rubric "vertigo - epileptic - during intervals"?
Does this mean periodic vertigo in an epileptic person, or ??
But--my understanding is that the vertigo is from the concussion,
rather than from the seizure; memory loss (and childish speech, heavy
lethargy and semi-conscious "dozing" and confusion), tho, can come
after her seizures even without concussion.

Just FWIW, my rep shows "Memory weak after convulsions, epileptic:
absin, ars, calc, cic, zinc."

I was also guided by: "Vertigo, concussion of brain, from: acon, arn,
cic". Perhaps this is too small a rubric?

I also used: Vertigo, objects seem to turn in a circle: 66 rxs,
including cic(2)
and Vertigo, injuries on head, after: acon, arn, cic, nat-s, op, ruta.

Also, in Morrison's Desktop Guide on cicuta I found: "Often there is
unconsciousness, sleeping, or a dull, dream-like postictal state
following the convulsion, continuing for an inordinately long period of
time, even a whole day." When I read this, I believe I was sold, as it
*VERY* closely matches her state following the last (?)few seizures;
she talked about people thinking she was asleep for hours but she
wasn't, she was sort of floating between awake and asleep, not able to
pull herself together to do anything or respond, just a dull, dreamy
place, and speech slow, wandering, sounding quite child-like. (Which
is WAAAAY different from her usual self !!!!!!!!) So remembering
cicuta's childlike aspect and/or behavior also seemed very persuasive.
But--time will tell... And those things--the post-seizure dreamy state
and the childishness--are actually not so evident this time. Still,
that wasn't my initial basis for choosing it...

Okay, I've got to my records, so here are some more details, in case
anyone has thoughts:
Seizure 11/5, landed on her head.
"My mind is very fragmented right now [this is 11/6], can't think of
anything very long. I keep closing my eyes and dreaming, or more like
fragments of dreams, then waking up. Not really asleep.
Headache, nausea (no details)
Vertigo is very off-and-on, I'll be fine, then suddenly feel everything
is spinning very fast, backwards over my head, around to one side.
head on pillow, but other times it [movement] doesn't. Hard to say.
Very, very thirsty! [cicuta is there]
"Appetite I don't know. [My daughter] has been cooking for me." [She
is very vague about almost everything. Anything not happening in the
present is very hazily sketched, and even things that *are* happening
in the present can be hard to get details about.]
My left eye isn't tracking [paralysis? "strabismus after convulsion /
after injury"?]
My brain's really scattered. Fragments of dreams, nothing to tell, no
story line, they're not long enough. Bit of an image, quarter of a
thought. Like piles of broken shards. No themes, background emotion,
no connection, just fragments. Like flotsam. No theme, no feeling.
Like wreckage. [Thoughts, cannot collect? Thoughts, disconnected?
Neither includes cicuta, but nat-m is there...

I didn't get to talk with her today, or only for a moment, oh well...
I see what tomorrow brings.
Thanks so much for the thoughts! I does help me to focus my thinking,
and move out of "overwhelm"...
Best wishes,
Shannon

Shannon Nelson wrote:
It's common to find a combination of low adrenal reserve, then the
low thyroid (usually from Hashimoto's autoimmune thyroiditis today,
not iodine deficiency),
then the difficult menopause, then the difficult post-menopause
(often with joint pain and dry eye and mouth, muscle weakness,
low back pain, shoulder pain, diminished mental capacity), then
hormone and neurotransmitter levels extremely low in the later
years. TCM deficient constitution, deficient kidney yang, ETC.
Can do classical herb formulas, TCM kidney yang tonifier, kidney
yin tonifier. These work well together in the generally
deficient constitution. More info on chewable formulas/products
in my integrative Adrenal support article, TCM reading in my
Bookshelf article, and the TCM folder in Links on my archive site.
Disregard "recommended" amounts on the label, start with one or two
and work up. OR if anyone doubts effects, start high the first day,
then back it down quickly as needed . The deficient constitution
usually needs very little to feel better. Best on empty stomach,
"chew n chase" as I say with a swig of water for rapid and thorough
absorption.
Progesterone cream can build up to excess levels in many women,
especially after about 3 months of use,
and progesterone testing is very tricky, especially in cycling women.
Oral micronized form of P. (Prometrium 100 mg by rx)
avoids many gastrointestinal, buildup, etc side effects of P cream.
She might find 100 mg oral micro P to be more sedating without danger
of side effects as from P cream. Some women need 200 mg oral P -
VERY sedating.

A tiny amount of estrogen (E) is usually needed to go with P,
even 0.3 mg oral E can make a positive difference.
Testosterone (T) helps
retain muscle and bone and overall well being, also has receptors
in the brain, can be oral and/or cream. T for women is pretty
new, much controversy and misunderstanding in the field, but
when a woman needs it, a little bit such as under 1 mg oral or
a lentil sized bit of T cream can make a big difference.
Herbal precursors for T can be "effective" but can be
unpredictable, drop the person flat in a few hours, be hard to
manage, but do show the potential of more T. Too much T and there's
hair loss, facial hair, lots of acne - it's not difficult to see
this early on in the first month. Every delivery form of a hormone
seems to act differently in different people, so some trial and
error involved.

Many women won't need hormonal support around and after menopause,
but the extremely deficient constitution, the low adrenal /low
thyroid, will often ONLY feel well with hormone supplementation.

2-5 years AFTER stopping periods women may be surprised
they've run into a brick wall, are operating in a hormone desert,
just can't go on without getting some hormones, and feel
practically normal after a single day with low dose bioidentical
hormones.
that,
has
have
know
that
driven
think
It's really rare to see a person who is so adrenal, thyroid etc
deficient have such a very expressive, volatile and
passionate "temperament", as most with her state can't mount
the energy for it even if they were so inclined, except out of
sheer desperation and angst at feeling so lousy when one would
normally be in the prime of life.

Adrenal weakness from her mother....carc miasm (?),
mitochondrial DNA - energy at the cellular level,
cellular oxygenation issues. Once adrenal weakness starts,
it tends to get passed down in family.
Interesting to see where the energy went "out" and what
were the causes for it, the life, the diet, the illnesses,
trace health history on the family tree. One thing many
learn by doing genealogy is their ancestors lived long lives
most of the time even by today's standards, and
usually had 10-15 children. Many changes in health and
reproductive patterns in the last 150 or so years.

I'm looking forward to Scholten's new book on Lanthanides
series in re autoimmune, low adrenal etc states. Low adrenal
is said by some to be at the root of autoimmune disorders,
and I feel this is largely correct. Adrenals make about 15(?)
hormones, including cortisol, testosterone, aldosterone
(adrenals are correlated to TCM "kidney").

Carol Willis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/willis_protocols
Article archive in Files, blog, Links, not a discussion group.

Shannon Nelson wrote:
is
of
it
to
(Which is WAAAAY different from her usual self !!!!!!!!)
A seizure is like a lightning storm in the brain.
It's like a town after a tornado or hurricane.
Most seizure patients are exhausted afterward
and exactly as described above afterward,
and the lower their hormone/neurotransmitter status
(there are many hormone/neurotransmitter receptors in the BRAIN),
the more difficult to recover from a seizure.

Cicuta may well be a good remedy to hasten healing. Zinc has a lot
of this brain fag also. I saw one case of seizures in elderly brain
atrophy turn around remarkably for several months with
Carboneum Sulph 30C.

Carol

I know this wasn't addressed to me but I don't have that rubric, only
vertigo, epileptic, are the rx the same in which case it would mean
vertigo during epilepsy or at least connected to it.

Also just to say that vertigo is another sx of Addison's so it might be
difficult to say whether it is from the concussion or the Addison's
(low blood pressure state), is anyone taking her BP.

I think there should be more rx in the 'memory weak after convulsions'
rubric - adrenalin, cortisone, oenanthe, opium, kali brom and so on
because it is such a common state after a convulsion and again might be
attached to the addison's.

The very strange sx of 'objects seems to turn in a circle' (as opposed
to the more common 'everything reeling' that you can get with vertigo)
is to do with the eyes in Cicuta - because of concussion in the brain a
state of strabismus can develop and so they stare at objects to try and
focus better, objects appear to go up and down, or recede, seem double
etc. the eyes also roll about a lot - it sounds as if this is happening
as you write that one of her eyes isn't tracking properly

It would be worth asking which side she reels towards during the
vertigo. I picked up on the 'suddenness' of the vertigo - maybe use
that rubric and check if there is anything interesting that happens
just before.

You might have already said this before but what is she thirsty for,
hot, cold, gulping, water, iced, sour, sweet - although I think this is
more of a general sx of her ongoing state but a specific might confirm
or lead you elsewhere.

Regarding her dream fragments you might have to go with the fact that
Cicuta have vivid dreams but generally are not remembered well - seems
good enough to me.

I personally think you should stick with your prescription of Cicuta
until it has shown to be effective or not because it seems a really
good choice but I just feel that it might not address the sx of the
addisons which are somewhat underlying her present state. Hope useful,
best wishes, Joy

http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.com
http://www.homeopathicmateriamedica.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Carol,
This gives me a lot to chew on, and I'll pass the ideas along to her,
to see if her naturapath wants to incorporate some. The chewables
sound especially interesting to me. I will read and "chew" too!

Shannon

Hi Shannon-
If Cicuta is working well or at least satisfactorily, do not change
the remedy. THere is nothing like a small or narrow rubric as long
as it is similar to what you have and other symptoms when you read
in the materia medica confirm the selection. Repertory only points
never decides.

vertigo - epileptic - during intervals I would think is where
vertigo is present during inter-epileptic periods. Pl. confirm in
Herings if you have.

Whatever we comment on are only fragments of the case and ultimately
it is you- with the whole case with you- who can make the correct
decision. Overall I see there are multiple concomitants - but not
many modalities. Probably if you get some they might clarify things
for you.
Many of the symptoms are common to epilepsy and post-epileptic state
and so if they are not marked or peculiar they may not carry much
value.

--- In minutus@yahoogroups.com, Robert & Shannon Nelson
wrote:
intervals"?
heavy
arn,
ruta.
is
period of
as it
seizures;
able to
dreamy
(Which
persuasive.
state
Still,
case
of
like
everything
turning
say.
[She
the
happening
convulsion /
tell, no
a
emotion,
feeling.
disconnected?
well...
thinking,

Hi Shannon,

I have found hyper-sensitive people are sensitive to anything. It's hard to experiment. But, for the average sensitivity when I have been giving 6c and then suddenly switch to 1LM, I do get more aggravation (stronger) even when they are not so sensitive. The detox process is stronger. If I think I am going to have problems with LM strength and training the patient to be sensitive enough to report their symptoms and take "as needed" then I back off and work up from 6c through to 30c or until they begin making good decisions in "taking as needed." Also, if they have been taking 6c frequently, they usually cannot do the same with 1LM except when their meds are canceling out the 1LM everyday anyway. Then LM's are not strong. That's my reasoning anyway.

Have you heard or read Mangialavori's description of Aqua Marina (Sea Remedies)? I am going to use 1LM with my was Ambra Grisea case. Very shy and afraid of things like going to the bathroom in "dirty" public places. People are watching her. Most of her Ambra Grisea anxiety has calmed down but she is having frequent urination before she goes to bed and can't fall asleep for about an hour. Could not find the specific rubric for urinary frequency before sleeping. Anyway, Aqua Marina is much like Nat Mur but much more shy and less worldly. She only talks to her family members. It is hard to find by repping, but if she comes out strongly for nat Mur and is shy, then there is a chance she is Aqua Marina. Mangialavori says he uses Aqua Marina more often than Nat Mur.

Blessings,
Ellen

Hi Ellen,
(Again sorry for my delay--I had just missed a whole section of posts!)
Below:
Thanks, I will keep this in mind!
In her case, tho, we have never had trouble going from 6c to LM1 (done
it several times in the past), and in this case too that transition was
completely smooth. The trouble only arose months later, and only after
the "dental episode" (and possibly in part because that episode was not
resolved early as I had thought, but instead dragged on for some
months, including the time when nat-m had begun to aggravate... Hm,
and I only now put that together. I think we will revisit nat-m once
this crisis is past, and now that her abscess is FINALLY taken care of.

That may be my answer right there--that she *was* in a different place
(needing a different remedy) because of the unresolved abscess, and
*that* is why the nat-m had begun to misbehave (and now a brief pause
for a moment of "duh"!)
She's always done really well with gauging her "as needed".
No I haven't, but I would love to! Is there somewhere I could read it?
Wonderful, I will file this tidbit away!
But nope, this one is not shy...
Thank you again!
Shannon